sob
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Do not start an English spelling class here. Stick to the topic.It's not Markava, it's Merkava. And I thought you know about tanks...
Do not start an English spelling class here. Stick to the topic.It's not Markava, it's Merkava. And I thought you know about tanks...
It is ok fault is mine ... so I would learn Merkava ...Do not start an English spelling class here. Stick to the topic.
I have answered all these things a number of times in this thread and emphasised that those who do not know why they are designing a tank should pack up and go home. The RFI has sufficiently given all parameters except for specefics.Well Sir, irrespective of your attempts to show your infinite understanding, you have absolutely no idea how designers work and what they require to do their work.
Any designer tasked with designing anything requires very clear and detailed understanding of the following.
1. The performance requirements
2. The environment of (expected) operations.
3. The constraints imposed on the product being designed.
The party requesting the design need to be very precise when describing the above requirements. Vague description as in the IA RFI are viewed with derision, because they are meaningless and risky for the designer. In fact, few designers will stick their neck out and accept such a project with such vague requirements, as it leaves the door open for abrupt changes in requirements.
Just to emphasize how dangerous the RFI is for any prospective design firm:
There are several load classes of bridges in the western sector: 20 ton, 45 ton, 60 ton, 70 ton, 100 ton etc etc. So which one does a design firm choose? If they choose the 60 ton , their design is open to rejection by the IA saying that 45 ton carrying capacity or 70 ton bridge should have been chosen. The RFI being vague leaves the door open to rejection/redesigning on such flimsy grounds.
Then there is the problem of the ground: There are fine grained sandy soils, coarse grained sandy soil, silty soil, clay etc etc all with different load bearing capacities at different seasons. So what ground pressure does the design firm choose for the FRCV/FMBT? Without a specified max ground pressure, the design can easily be rejected saying that it is unsuitable for the terrain.
The RFI basically tells "We want a tank" and nothing more. There is nothing in that RFI that any designer can use to make any reasonable assessment of the project.
Just to be clear, I'm not on DRDO's payroll.
If the shape, size, nuts and bolts are given then what is the design for ? What will designer do ?
If there are specifications then then how does one chooses between the designs?
The other RFI are in specifics and procurement ... or are those also for design ?
You perhaps failed to notice that the whole country (labour, salarymen to industrialists) everybody is rooting for the political option that breaths in and breaths out only about Domestic Industry. Welcome to the party.India does not follow that nationalist and economic philosophy in all other goods- cell phones, Laptops, computers, electronics, telecommunication, infrastructure, tool, machinery, auto parts , engines, aviation, sensors..
Indian Army is not DARPA.DARPA announced a design completion for an amphibious tank. They did not issue RFI. They just provided software and told public they want designs for drivetrain, chasis and overall integrated structure. The designers submitted their designs, were modified and have benn put through Prototype trials.
http://www.gizmag.com/darpa-fang-winner/27213/
Who/What, in Indian Army matches that?Regina E. Dugan is an American businesswoman, inventor, and technology developer.
I do not intend to start any type of spelling class, let alone English. Writing Su-30 MKK in place of Su-30 MKI changes meaning of a well written paragraph. I just pointed such an error.Do not start an English spelling class here. Stick to the topic.
If you were not so busy hating army you would have known the reason for it by reading karn and bhadra posts on what RFI are and why it is being given out this way here. Even then sob has answered your question.@Khagesh Sir, I wanted to ask the same question to @Bhadra ji & @Mad Indian ji.
If DGMF can provide details in 2 of the 3 RFIs published, why details of requirement were not provided in RFI for FRCV ?? Was that intentional ?? Does that lead to some pre-decided direction / conclusion ??
One more question. Accepting all the shortfalls of DRDO, can somebody clarify why Indian Army did not took OWNERSHIP of all projects related to IA ?? Why did IA chose not to be engaged with the project from definition to production phase ???
Please notice this was put upto @Bhadra. He was the one who presented it as an apology. Notice now that instead of answering the objection he has started talking about DARPA - Sharpa. WT_ Indian Navy has a real design capability in the float category. A capability that is several notches above merely testing which is a skill that IN shares with IAF and IA also. And mind you unlike the Army that never sees the seas or the Air force that has only the air to take care of the Navy actually works on, under, over the water and land. And despite that IN too have never claimed to be an Indian DARPA.Does it serve anybodies purpose to say “Both sides of western border”. Why cannot the DGMF say what is there on the other side of the western border. What is to be expected in terms of canal depths, ditch cum bund preparations, road conditions, soil conditions.
Please notice the language. Thus Currently the RFI does not even states clearly and expressly, what the hell will be selected - the design or the Design Selection Committee?Design Selection Committee, under the aegis of DGMF, which will have members selected from amongst domain experts and representatives of concerned defence agencies. The selection will be based on detailed and comprehensive Evaluation Criteria.
Hamari Army mein General sahib, Philosophy karne lag gaye hain. They want detailed designs and mind you ab-initio designs based on a mere design philosophy. heh heh.(a) Design Stage. In this stage, there will be a FRCV Design Competition for selecting the best design. Established tank designers will be invited by means of a global RFP (Request For Proposal), wherein the broad design philosophy for the FRCV will be given out, along with the detailed guidelines for conduct of the Competition. The participants will be asked to submit detailed designs based on the FRCV design philosophy.
Sir sorry to say but what will the design house do after the LSP stage? Let us just say that CVRDE entry submits and wins. Then what? What will they get?.............. Exactly . I thought so too . The fun thing is that even for the LSP stage the design agency will be at the mercy of the DGMF and his yet to be staffed Design Selection Committee for which even the Selection Criteria is not finalized.(d) The winning design(s) will become the sole property of the Indian Army.
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6. The agency/bureau whose designs are selected will require to continue to work on the project through the prototype and the Limited Series Production (LSP) stages. For this, a separate contract will be drawn. The agency/bureaus participating in this competition will mandatorily have to give an undertaking to this effect while applying for the competition.
<snip>
(d) What is the approximate amount of prize money for the winning design which will adequately motivate your organisation to participate in the competition?
Deliver what. Lifafa?Mahendras, L&T, TATA, Ambani, Punjloid, BEL, BDL, ARDE etc would be able to deliver. CVRDE does not have a good track record. May be they can be asked to work on armour!
Logically speaking, would the russians not want to print and invest money in their own economy to balance the flight of foreign capital.Until and unless the Russians agree for Make in India, Armata will not come in the picture.