Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

[Swiftfarts]

And how much a Arjun MK1A?

Upward of 8 million at current price. Antony ji ne 37 crore ( 7.1 million USD ) ka rate diya thaa 2011 main.

 

[Haldilal]

Upward of 8 million at current price. Antony ji ne 37 crore ( 7.1 million USD ) ka rate diya thaa 2011 main.

50 crore mein Arjun Mk1A? Better to invest in L & T Vara Tank for the FRCV. We could only offord T 14 type tanks. But we should add additional armour on the turret even if it increases the Cost and Size. The T 14 from the size is a monster when compared with the T 90S. L & T should develop a tank of a size simar to T 72.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Ignorance is indeed a bliss, when you are too much ignorant too admit your mistake.
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View attachment 62403
Source: https://www.makeinindiadefence.gov.in/projects/projectlist/2/1

So, this was issued in 2019? Did the trials take place?
It says: Timelines: Prototyoe eval and trials by 2019. Production and supply by dec 2020..

 

[Swiftfarts]

50 crore mein Arjun Mk1A? Better to invest in L & T Vara Tank for the FRCV. We could only offord T 14 type tanks. But we should add additional armour on the turret even if it increases the Cost and Size. The T 14 from the size is a monster when compared with the T 90S. L & T should develop a tank of a size simar to T 72.
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L&T bana bheti ..more money would be wasted on useless goose chase like in past with nothing to show for in the end. even if they do mange to build a downgraded version , high cost will make it unaffordable for army to buy in large numbers.
Here's my purposal and it's simple , since russian economy has also tanked like ours. best option for like minded fellows is to do a joint big production run in Russia to bring down cost. just like T 72 had a marvelous production run and T 90 after that. same can be done for armata. Here are the customer let see Russia , Belarus , Armenia , Vietnam , Algeria , india , add one or two other. all these countries orders can easily take the production run upward of 4000. Cost will come down drastically.
and what will we get in return ? a tank which will dominate battlefield for decades to come. Future proof since it's designed specifically to deal with all current and future threats like upcoming upgraded 130 and 140mm gun on western MBT. tank hard kill APS make HEAT , HESH rounds obsolete.
It's hard kill APS can take on even ammo which use precursor tip like RPG 30 and other APFSDS. What else do we need.

 

[Haldilal]

L&T bana bheti ..more money would be wasted on useless goose chase like in past with nothing to show for in the end. even if they do mange to build a downgraded version , high cost will make it unaffordable for army to buy in large numbers.
Here's my purposal and it's simple , since russian economy has also tanked like ours. best option for like minded fellows is to do a joint big production run in Russia to bring down cost. just like T 72 had a marvelous production run and T 90 after that. same can be done for armata. Here are the customer let see Russia , Belarus , Armenia , Vietnam , Algeria , india , add one or two other. all these countries orders can easily take the production run upward of 4000. Cost will come down drastically.
and what will we get in return ? a tank which will dominate battlefield for decades to come. Future proof since it's designed specifically to deal with all current and future threats like upcoming upgraded 130 and 140mm gun on western MBT. tank hard kill APS make HEAT , HESH rounds obsolete.
It's hard kill can take on even ammo which use precursor tip like RPG 30 and other APFSDS.

The only problem I see is the size its monstrous ever larger than most Russian tanks and almost a little bit larger to even the western tanks. They should have tried to keep its size similar to the previous tanks.

 

[Swiftfarts]

The only problem I see is the size its mosterous ever larger than most Russian tanks and almost a little bit larger han even the western tanks. They shoul have tried to keep its size wider to the previous tanks.

It's 55 tonne according to manufacturer.
for that weight you get best crew protection among all current tanks, future proof even against 130mm 140 gun , best APFSDS penetrators , nothing will match it in Chinese or Paki arsenal. Our only possible future threat's. Very advance hard kill APS and situation awareness. Thing has 4 Ka band Radars on it's turret. What else do we need. Let take your point that turret need to be armoured more fine. Lets add 1 tonne more armour to the turret and make it 56 tonne. That's still punching way above most western tanks.
we need to come to reality that weight can not be kept down. Armata has done extraordinary well , keeping all those parameters from protection to firepower in mind.
2day old video .

 

[Haldilal]

It's 55 tonne according to manufacturer.
for that weight you get best crew protection among all current tanks, future proof even against 130mm 140 gun , best APFSDS penetrators , nothing will match it in Chinese or Paki arsenal. Our only possible future threat's. Very advance hard kill APS and situation awareness. Thing has 4 Ka band Radars on it's turret. What else do we need. Let take your point that turret need to be armoured more fine. Lets add 1 tonne more armour to the turret and make it 56 tonne. That's still punching way above most western tanks.
we need to come to reality that weight can not be kept down. Armata has done extraordinary well , keeping all those parameters from protection to firepower in mind.
2day old video .

I was talking about dimension not weight.

 

[Swiftfarts]

I was talking about dimension not weight.

It's width is same as T 90 only length and height is more so gun can be depressed more , which is a good thing.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

The only problem I see is the size its monstrous ever larger than most Russian tanks and almost a little bit larger to even the western tanks. They should have tried to keep its size similar to the previous tanks.

With western armies going for 130 mm guns in the future, MBTs in the west, Russia and China will get bigger.. For deployment on mountainous terrain at LAC.. T-72 T-90s after upgrade are fine for another couple of decades..

 

[Swiftfarts]

With western armies going for 130 mm guns in the future, MBTs in the west, Russia and China will get bigger.. For deployment on mountainous terrain at LAC.. T-72 T-90s after upgrade are fine for another couple of decades..

all Russians have to do is change current armata turret with a bigger 152mm gun turret, that's all.

India's main tank threat is still Pakistan and best they will have is VT 4. Both Chinese and pukes are a done deal if we upgrade whole of our 4,000 T 72, T 90 fleet to B3M and M standards respectively. So you are right T 90 and 72 are fine for next decade or so.
but day will come when we would have to replace those T 72 and I see Armata coming down the line to replace them.

 

[Bleh]

Use accha to Arjun ka turret dar de T 90S par. It will cost the same And here we will get the Tank EX.

But that would require Russian side's permission. Otherwise, they will object just as last time, when DRDO tried to mount modified Arjun's turret on T-72 hull.

Russians objected to drastic modification of T-72s. We could have still manufacture TankEx from scratch instead of T-90s (would probably have a longrod APFSDS by now).

Present order of vintage Tincan-90S Bhishma come at unit price of $4.5million(+2.5million tribute)... Arjun Mark1A is $7.5million (with present import content)...

 

[Flying Dagger]

Indian army have dubious induction scheme T-90s in 2020 and Sukhoi mki 2002 standard are two worst deal where billions have been poured in Ak-203 is another in making though not as bad as the other two.

Even the old Mig 29s we are buying check out the final price even new one in 2010 were cheaper.

If we are serious need to needle these guys on twitter and sm .

 

[Bleh]

...Sukhoi mki 2002 standard are two worst deal where billions have been poured in Ak-203 is another in making though not as bad as the other two.
Even the old Mig 29s we are buying check out the final price even new one in 2010 were cheaper.

Emergency purchase of Mig-29s are coming in UPG standard. And they're just mothballed, not 2nd hand... the airframe life loss is minimal.
Sukhois were world's 2nd best in 2002, but haven't been upgraded due to lack of money (& foresight). But atleast they're now nearly 100% built in India & a MLU of the desi avionics pack can be expected for atleast some of the newer ones bringing them at par with most 4.5th gen jet.

These two don't really compare to the Tincan scam of Army.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Emergency purchase of Mig-29s are coming in UPG standard. And they're just mothballed, not 2nd hand... the airframe life loss is minimal.
Sukhois were world's 2nd best in 2002, but haven't been upgraded due to lack of money (& foresight). But atleast they're now nearly 100% built in India & a MLU of the desi avionics pack can be expected for atleast some of the newer ones bringing them at par with most 4.5th gen jet.

These two don't really compare to the Tincan scam of Army.

I know they are in UPG standard but.. 25+15 around 40 mn for them while same were available for 29mn in 2010 around.

Paid 10 mn dollar+ more for old airframe .

Even T-90s can be upgraded but Sukhoi will always have RCS disadvantage. And No Sukhoi aren't 100% indigenous if you meant airframe only then yes but raw materials have to be imported as per license.

We are paying more and getting obsolete items it's same everywhere.

 

[Bleh]

I know they are in UPG standard but.. 25+15 around 40 mn for them while same were available for 29mn in 2010 around.

Yeah, that's called beggars can't be choosers... Rouble & Rupee are born worth toilet paper compared to a decade ago & the daddy is milking as much as it can from its lil' bitch.

Also I think the 2010 price you quoted was for upgradation not full acquisition of full airframes.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Yeah, that's called beggars can't be choosers... Rouble & Rupee are born worth toilet paper compared to a decade ago & the daddy is milking as much as it can from its lil' bitch.

Also I think the 2010 price you quoted was for upgradation not full acquisition of full airframes.

Upgrade was 15 mn+ .

We are a very rich nation I guess.

 

[Haldilal]

Upgrade was 15 mn+ .

We are a very rich nation I guess.

Itna paisa hai to 600 LCA Tejas aur 6,000 Tank Ex ka order de do.

 

[Swiftfarts]

T 90 armour protection level.

against KE.

Red : 900mm
Orange : 660 - 890mm
Green : 400- 650mm

against HEAT add 450mm.

 

[Bleh]

Fixed that fabricated image & false values.

True(er) numbers;
Green : ≤400mm (roof & mantlet don't have composites, just RHA... butter before HEAT).
Orange : 400-850mm (ERA only on outer sides)
Red : ±850mm against APFSDS (±300mm more with ERA)
White : Frontally irrelevant.

SUCH ARMOUR. MUCH PROTECTION.

Propaganda aside, the fact is India's whole Tincan-90S fleet has much worse ERA placement compared to latest MS (which is only second to Oplot arrangement wise, as the latter don't have a shot trap).

 

[Killbot]

[QUOTE="Bleh, post: 1780803, member:
Are we buying 464 more T-90S or MS?
@Bleh