Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

[shuvo@y2k10]

Use acha to naya tank hi bana do. Agar upgrade is costly. Why to do this tamasha.

Naya tank to bana raha hai drdo, which will have indegeneous 125 mm smoothbore gun. Under the name fmbt.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Use acha to naya tank hi bana do. Agar upgrade is costly. Why to do this tamasha.

Upgrade is better option, save money for us and put Chinese and Pukes in a difficult situation specially pukes economically , since they would have to spend more in future to catch up . If we upgrade just T 90 to M level with svinets 1 and 2 as it's main APFSDS. We are basically future proof in case of Pukes. Since they would have to go for a heavier MBT ( whole new tank ) to counter just our upgraded T 90.

 

[Swiftfarts]

@shuvo@y2k10 these are the value of DOP of top russian APFSDS round at 2km /60° with muzzle velocity.

I will list there certified penetration value at 2km.

•Old 3BM 42 mango > 450mm at 0°.

•Mango M( upgraded one ) > 560mm at 0°

•Svinets 2(old tungsten alloy) > 600mm at 0°

• upgraded one > 640-660mm at 0°

•Svinets 1( Depletd uranium)> 740mm at 0°

•vaccum 2 ( tungsten alloy ) > 800mm at 0°

•vaccum 1( Depletd uranium )> 900mm at 0°

note....value of actual vaccum round are much higher upward of 1 meter. and india use 3BM 42 mango and it's upgraded variant.
So best round we have , has a DOP between 560 - 600mm.

Chinese BTA4 has penetration value of 600mm at 0° at 2km. So if Chinese claim are to be believed than Pakistan now has better round than us.

I have a serious hunch India secretly use DU rounds or our upcoming T 90S have bigger autoloaders.

now problem with above ROI is that bar has been set pretty high. New gun, new autoloader will be required to achieve the desired results. army has intentionally set the bar high since loud mouth pvt gonchus will be competing with russians for the deal and army know they will fail for obvious reasons.

No that's not what it's says. It's completely mention set parameters. Let's take your DOP from 2km. Without upgraded autoloader and DU round you won't be achieving such range. Svinets 1 DU round with same 2A46M gun but upgraded autoloader can achieve only 740mm DOP from 2km .

Some correction , DOP will be 700mm KE at 0° at 2 km using current gun but new autoloader with older 3BM 48 svinets DU round not 740mm since it will require new gun with higher muzzle velocity.

 

[Haldilal]

Upgrade is better option, save money for us and put Chinese and Pukes in a difficult situation specially pukes economically , since they would have to spend more in future to catch up . If we upgrade just T 90 to M level with svinets 1 and 2 as it's main APFSDS. We are basically future proof in case of Pukes. Since they would have to go for a heavier MBT ( whole new tank ) to counter just our upgraded T 90.

Kitne mein padega yeh upgrade kya 6 Crore ke under ho sakta hai per tank?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

@Swiftstarts
Based on the chart you posted previously, it seems that new round under development will be in the similar ballpark as svinets 1 ( tungsten core). And yes, the autoloader modification is permissible.

If this project is successfully implemented, the apfsds tank ammunition will go to the negative import list. If not, then army will press for imports of svinets (given Russians are willing to export that).

 

[Swiftfarts]

Kitne mein padega yeh upgrade kya 6 Crore ke under ho sakta hai per tank?

it costing Russians between 1 and 2 million for there T 90 upgrade. hum 20 se 25 crore ke beech lekay chaltey hain. It can be done. sooner or later we have to upgrade those T 90.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

In this cost estimate is aps included?

 

[Haldilal]

it costing Russians between 1 and 2 million for there T 90 upgrade. hum 20 se 25 crore ke beech lekay chaltey hain. It can be done. sooner or later we have to upgrade those T 90.

Tank liya tha 14 crore mein ab uska Upgrade padega 20 crores. Jai Ho Jia Ho.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Yahan pe ab har koi itna frustrated hai , tanks ke bare aise bat kar raha hai jaise ki apni bike upgrade karane ja raha .
Haldilal bhai koyta acha hai khukri se .
Mai wai lelega

 

[Swiftfarts]

@Swiftstarts
Based on the chart you posted previously, it seems that new round under development will be in the similar ballpark as svinets 1 ( tungsten core). And yes, the autoloader modification is permissible.

If this project is successfully implemented, the apfsds tank ammunition will go to the negative import list. If not, then army will press for imports of svinets (given Russians are willing to export that).

Svinets 1 is a DU round. later on has 740mm certified penetration value at 2km.

Russians are way ahead of us in metallurgy and even than there upgraded svinets 2 ( using tungsten alloy ) has Only 640 - 660mm RHA Penetration( 2002).

1991 model had 600mm certified penetration and that one is up for exports.

If DRDO or Pvt players can come up with something better than the above round on there own . It will give army bargaining power in talks with russians for a better deal. This also gives me a hint that since ROI bar has been kept so high by army.
Indian army probably use DU rounds , probably low in number secretly( supplied by Russians ).

 

[Bleh]

Partially??!! Dude, seriously??!! Since when ≥600 began to mean 800??!! If it ain't a blatant misrepresentation of facts, then I wouldn't know what is.

Couldn't agree more.

It did say 600-800mm... Didn't mention the range though. Could be 2km. Not sure.

From what @Shashank Nayak pointed out I think it could be single-piece round for GNMBT's turret autoloader. Otherwise doesn't make sense. But it is an official Army document.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

A 1200-1500 upgradable engine for T-90 is being pursued under Make project. Not sure, but this can be the one which CVRDE is developing.

Source: https://indianarmy.nic.in/makeinindia/Make Proj One page Brief New.pdf

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Multi-target tracking system and 3rd generation missile for T-90 and T-72 is also being pursued under Make category. Most probably a CLGM variant.

 

[Swiftfarts]

So here's the deal.

•If we take DOP value as mentioned in ROI greater than 600mm but less than 650mm as target , than DRDO or pvt gonchus have to beat older svinets 2( now export version 1991 model with 300mm RHA 60°/2km certified ).

•If we take DOP target as 700mm than DRDO or pvt gonchus have to beat upgraded svinets 2 in Russian service which has 640 - 660mm penetration.

•if DOP target to be achieved is 800mm than DRDO or pvt gonchus have to beat svinets 1 DU round 740mm certified penetration ( 2002).

army has put things in open , let's see if loudmouths have what it take.

 

[Haldilal]

Use accha to Arjun ka turret dar de T 90S par. It will cost the same And here we will get the Tank EX.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Use accha to Arjun ka turret dar de T 90S par. It will cost the same And here we will get the Tank EX.

But that would require Russian side's permission. Otherwise, they will object just as last time, when DRDO tried to mount modified Arjun's turret on T-72 hull.

 

[Haldilal]

But that would require Russian side's permission. Otherwise, they will object just as last time, when DRDO tried to mount modified Arjun's turret on T-72 hull.

Here the Mlecchas sells Russian copied system to other and we fear of the Russian actions. Ban chuke hum Defence exporter.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Here the Mlecchas sells Russian copied system to other and we fear of the Russian actions. Ban chuke hum Defence exporter.

Chinese have almost catched up with Russians in certain fields and are ahead of them in few. Just Look at optronics. Behind those optronics on modern Russian tanks sits a hard working french beauty. same is case with India. Export to tab karey jab kuch तगड़ा हो अपने पास. Arjun ke rate main दो T 90MS ya ek armata aa Jayega. Ghanta export karna.

 

[Swiftfarts]

How much a Armata cost?

between 8 and 12 million. It's estimated that big production run will bring down cost between 4 and 6 million USD per tank.

 

[Haldilal]

between 8 and 12 million. It's estimated that big production run will bring down cost between 5 and 6 million USD per tank.

And how much a Arjun MK1A?