Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.

[Gessler]

And I wouldn’t hold my breath in anything , expecting bog standard stripped down rifles when they do come.

You were spot on there...doesn't look like any optics were part of the deal.

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/...0-telescopic-sights-for-assault-rifles/422566

This competition would probably call for bids from products of the like of Trijicon ACOG, ELCAN Spectre, or SIG Sauer's own BRAVO series magnified day sights.

 

[Killswitch]

The tender for optics has been set up.

 

[Bhadra]

RFI for Thermal Night Sights for LMG ................
https://indianarmy.nic.in/MakeInInd...endorsView.aspx?MnId=3V/TzKKSNDaN0Rt5jY1ncQ==

 

[Bhadra]

RFI of Assault Rifle ....... Indian Army ...

https://indianarmy.nic.in/MakeInInd...endorsView.aspx?MnId=I0BX78/fRnVb/9mf70MtDQ==

 

[Rchauhan]

RFI of Assault Rifle ....... Indian Army ...

https://indianarmy.nic.in/MakeInInd...endorsView.aspx?MnId=I0BX78/fRnVb/9mf70MtDQ==

This is old RFI ,, on page 2 it says ""Tentative date of issue of RFP is April 2017 ""

 

[Ghost68]

What about CAR 816? Was contract signed for their procurement or was it scrapped?

 

[vampyrbladez]

What about CAR 816? Was contract signed for their procurement or was it scrapped?

It's in suspended animation due to price rise. SIG 716 G2 Patrol (7.62×51 mm) costs $990 each and CAR 816 (5.56×45 mm) costs $1100 each.

 

[rone]

It's in suspended animation due to price rise. SIG 716 G2 Patrol (7.62×51 mm) costs $990 each and CAR 816 (5.56×45 mm) costs $1100 each.

i didn't get it if sig only cost $990 why we going ak203 for 1000$

 

[Flying Dagger]

i didn't get it if sig only cost $990 why we going ak203 for 1000$

It doesn't include any accessories we will need to pay extra for that. AK will come with standard accessories from the factories itself.

There are specific roles for both these rifles. One is for Infantry the other for close combat ops . AK will be make in India too which means most of the money will remain inside Indian economy.

 

[Flying Dagger]

It's in suspended animation due to price rise. SIG 716 G2 Patrol (7.62×51 mm) costs $990 each and CAR 816 (5.56×45 mm) costs $1100 each.

We could have simply copied it and give it to private firm to produce with some minor changes SSS defence may do it easily . Who the hell care about UAE defence firm anyway

Even Sig carbine is good and will be easier to deal with one company instead of wasting time for another decade


Else our own 5.56 carbine versions are doing good too i guess

 

[vampyrbladez]

We could have simply copied it and give it to private firm to produce with some minor changes SSS defence may do it easily . Who the hell care about UAE defence firm anyway

Even Sig carbine is good and will be easier to deal with one company instead of wasting time for another decade


Else our own 5.56 carbine versions are doing good too i guess

SSS Defense needs to finish the short stroke piston AK first. Then it has to be trialed and inducted by MHA forces.

 

[vampyrbladez]

i didn't get it if sig only cost $990 why we going ak203 for 1000$

INSAS sells for $ 1050 as per a user post here.

 

[Flying Dagger]

SSS Defense needs to finish the short stroke piston AK first. Then it has to be trialed and inducted by MHA forces.

They can do it I am saying simply copy it change some outside ergonomics etc to suit us more. And roll it out... We have done it before but instead of OFB let a Pvt firm do that.

There are other small arms manufacturing Pvt player coming up give them the opportunity

Or may be pit different OFBs against each other

 

[vampyrbladez]

They can do it I am saying simply copy it change some outside ergonomics etc to suit us more. And roll it out... We have done it before but instead of OFB let a Pvt firm do that.

There are other small arms manufacturing Pvt player coming up give them the opportunity

Or may be pit different OFBs against each other

OFB had a massive strike when we tried to make them a PSU. They will go an a rampage if we tried to get them to compete directly with private companies!

Only way forward is via JV between them and getting piecemeal contracts first and then big ones. Let different private companies compete with OFB doing screwdriver jobs under military supervision like in the Amethi OFB factory.

 

[Gessler]

It doesn't include any accessories we will need to pay extra for that. AK will come with standard accessories from the factories itself.

There is nothing in public domain AFAIK to suggest that AK-203 will be getting accessories. Kalashnikov does not manufacture such things as vertical grips, flashlights, sights etc. and neither does OFB. Either we have to buy indigenous sights from likes of BEL (which IMO are crap) or place separate orders from foreign companies.

Do note that such things as railed handguards, dust covers, adjustable stocks are not regarded as 'accessories' when talking about either AK-203/SIG-716, as these are all in-built features of the gun itself, and all these are present on SIG as well.

The reason why SIG is costing less is because unlike Kalashnikov, SIG was made to participate in a competitive bidding environment where lowest bidder (L-1) gets the contract, forcing the participants to offer the lowest possible price for their product, hoping to make up for the loss by getting bulk orders.

The Kalashnikov-OFB combine on the other hand were simply nominated by GoI, so no competitive pricing there. $1k for a new-generation AK is about the expected price, civilian versions of these 100/200-series guns sold by likes of Saiga in US civilian market doesn't sell for much more. Usually in $1k price range as well - so we are pretty much paying retail price for the AKs despite the massive bulk order, thanks to nomination.

SIG 716G2 on the other hand sells for approx. $2.3k on civilian market. It is qualitatively a much better rifle than any AK, milled receiver, short stroke piston, plus made by boutique name-brand. But it could be offered for $990 because of competitive bidding.

There's no two ways about it - AK203 is a bad deal. We're getting ripped off sure...but the reason why I don't mind anymore is because at least we're going to get a good gun, I'd rather get the AK203 than pay a somewhat similar amount and get INSAS.

 

[Hari Sud]

There is nothing in public domain AFAIK to suggest that AK-203 will be getting accessories. Kalashnikov does not manufacture such things as vertical grips, flashlights, sights etc. and neither does OFB. Either we have to buy indigenous sights from likes of BEL (which IMO are crap) or place separate orders from foreign companies.

Do note that such things as railed handguards, dust covers, adjustable stocks are not regarded as 'accessories' when talking about either AK-203/SIG-716, as these are all in-built features of the gun itself, and all these are present on SIG as well.

The reason why SIG is costing less is because unlike Kalashnikov, SIG was made to participate in a competitive bidding environment where lowest bidder (L-1) gets the contract, forcing the participants to offer the lowest possible price for their product, hoping to make up for the loss by getting bulk orders.

The Kalashnikov-OFB combine on the other hand were simply nominated by GoI, so no competitive pricing there. $1k for a new-generation AK is about the expected price, civilian versions of these 100/200-series guns sold by likes of Saiga in US civilian market doesn't sell for much more. Usually in $1k price range as well - so we are pretty much paying retail price for the AKs despite the massive bulk order, thanks to nomination.

SIG 716G2 on the other hand sells for approx. $2.3k on civilian market. It is qualitatively a much better rifle than any AK, milled receiver, short stroke piston, plus made by boutique name-brand. But it could be offered for $990 because of competitive bidding.

There's no two ways about it - AK203 is a bad deal. We're getting ripped off sure...but the reason why I don't mind anymore is because at least we're going to get a good gun, I'd rather get the AK203 than pay a somewhat similar amount and get INSAS.

Pure speculation by a critic. 203 is a good rifle.

 

[Flying Dagger]

There is nothing in public domain AFAIK to suggest that AK-203 will be getting accessories. Kalashnikov does not manufacture such things as vertical grips, flashlights, sights etc. and neither does OFB. Either we have to buy indigenous sights from likes of BEL (which IMO are crap) or place separate orders from foreign companies.

Do note that such things as railed handguards, dust covers, adjustable stocks are not regarded as 'accessories' when talking about either AK-203/SIG-716, as these are all in-built features of the gun itself, and all these are present on SIG as well.

The reason why SIG is costing less is because unlike Kalashnikov, SIG was made to participate in a competitive bidding environment where lowest bidder (L-1) gets the contract, forcing the participants to offer the lowest possible price for their product, hoping to make up for the loss by getting bulk orders.

The Kalashnikov-OFB combine on the other hand were simply nominated by GoI, so no competitive pricing there. $1k for a new-generation AK is about the expected price, civilian versions of these 100/200-series guns sold by likes of Saiga in US civilian market doesn't sell for much more. Usually in $1k price range as well - so we are pretty much paying retail price for the AKs despite the massive bulk order, thanks to nomination.

SIG 716G2 on the other hand sells for approx. $2.3k on civilian market. It is qualitatively a much better rifle than any AK, milled receiver, short stroke piston, plus made by boutique name-brand. But it could be offered for $990 because of competitive bidding.

There's no two ways about it - AK203 is a bad deal. We're getting ripped off sure...but the reason why I don't mind anymore is because at least we're going to get a good gun, I'd rather get the AK203 than pay a somewhat similar amount and get INSAS.

Well i read a Russian or OFB statement somewhere that there will be some standard accessories compared to OFB INSAS may be they meant the basic upgrade as you said.

The price of each rifle, which will also include the cost of technology transfer and of setting up the manufacturing unit,

So TOT + MU is also included i dont know how they are going to workout on it. I agree may be in a bidding we could have asked for a huge bulk order + License to produce as many for our force for say n years. And save some bucks there by making it a standard one for various defence forces.

As far as quality is concerned is it manufacturing or design you think are inferior to Sig ?

Both have different purpose and war doctrine. AK is a good choice Infact Army is giving a try to its shorter barrel version folding butstock as carbine too as per some reports.

I haven't fired any so can't say

Are you in defence ? Which one is issued to you ?

 

[Hari Sud]

Well i read a Russian or OFB statement somewhere that there will be some standard accessories compared to OFB INSAS may be they meant the basic upgrade as you said.

The price of each rifle, which will also include the cost of technology transfer and of setting up the manufacturing unit,

So TOT + MU is also included i dont know how they are going to workout on it. I agree may be in a bidding we could have asked for a huge bulk order + License to produce as many for our force for say n years. And save some bucks there by making it a standard one for various defence forces.

As far as quality is concerned is it manufacturing or design you think are inferior to Sig ?

Both have different purpose and war doctrine. AK is a good choice Infact Army is giving a try to its shorter barrel version folding butstock as carbine too as per some reports.

I haven't fired any so can't say

Are you in defence ? Which one is issued to you ?

Speculate too much. The 203 by even western standards is a better rifle. Accessories you talk about are not for battle where enemy is firing at you and very little time to turn on the flash light and also give away your position. The optics which you talk about, in a battle are mounted on DMR and not on a battle rifle which every soldier carries.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Speculate too much. The 203 by even western standards is a better rifle. Accessories you talk about are not for battle where enemy is firing at you and very little time to turn on the flash light and also give away your position. The optics which you talk about, in a battle are mounted on DMR and not on a battle rifle which every soldier carries.

Tone your language dude we aren't fighting with each other . If you wish to share something do it for nagging keep that to yourself. We aren't defence strategist sitting at higher levels just normal people discussing and trying to understand things.

Here ex USA soldier shared their experience.. on different weapons and the accessories used.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-cont...-even-an-under-attachment-or-adjustable-stock

INSAS sells for $ 1050 as per a user post here.

Must appreciate the guts of OFB to go on strike after charging this price for INSAS .

 

[vampyrbladez]

Tone your language dude we aren't fighting with each other . If you wish to share something do it for nagging keep that to yourself. We aren't defence strategist sitting at higher levels just normal people discussing and trying to understand things.

Here ex USA soldier shared their experience.. on different weapons and the accessories used.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-cont...-even-an-under-attachment-or-adjustable-stock




Must appreciate the guts of OFB to go on strike after charging this price for INSAS .

OFB puts massive overhead and labour costs on the manufacture of the gun. If you look at the design, lots of unnecessary rivets are used, thus increasing per unit cost!