Indian Army: News and Discussion

Bhadra

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My 2 cents , well duplicate post from mi 35 thread

So some of the IAF officials just secured a good package from Russia for their post retirement benefits , I've few questions for the idiotic IAF officers who made the deal and wasted around 200 cr

1. How many Mi 35 we have in service,
2. How long they are going to be in active service
3. Why we still buying a FLIR guided missile, which is so shit in current scenario
4. In what context IAF will use those Mi 35
5. What is the usage of Apache helicopters then

Is that Ataka missile import is much needed than modernizing the Bases in J&K to accomodate the Larger MKI planes,
I suppose it is a temporary measure but a good one..
If one has MI-35 why should those remained unarmed ? There is no possibility of those firing Hellfire or Spikes in present configurations?
Helina is hibernating somewhere and I suppose not yet cleared to be fitted on MI-35. Even if it were DRDO has zero credibility for delivery in time.

MI-35 is basically a fire support and SF operations platform which can carry eight troops (one SF squad). Hence we can not underestimate their value in present cross border operations stikes.

MI-35 can be upgraded with israeli avionic kits like Brazil has done so to take it beyond FLIR kits.

So "maujan hi maujan" for the IAF and SF.
 

SajeevJino

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I suppose it is a temporary measure but a good one..
If one has MI-35 why should those remained unarmed ? There is no possibility of those firing Hellfire or Spikes in present configurations?
Helina is hibernating somewhere and I suppose not yet cleared to be fitted on MI-35. Even if it were DRDO has zero credibility for delivery in time.

MI-35 is basically a fire support and SF operations platform which can carry eight troops (one SF squad). Hence we can not underestimate their value in present cross border operations stikes.

MI-35 can be upgraded with israeli avionic kits like Brazil has done so to take it beyond FLIR kits.

So "maujan hi maujan" for the IAF and SF.
the real matter is who will cover the Helicopters, are we ready to send the helicopters across the border, cuz Paki way better MANPAD's like RBS 70 and Stingers,

So I don't think the current IBG can use the attack helicopters to cover the Tank or infantry coloumns

It seems Mi 35 looks better if we want to fight the Myanmar backed or North east terrorists
 

Bhadra

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the real matter is who will cover the Helicopters, are we ready to send the helicopters across the border,
CAP wii be there and I suppose the IAF would have gained partial air superiority over the intended area of operation.

yes, we will have to send them across the border if need be. American did that and we too have done that. Uncovered valleys exist astride the LOC.

cuz Paki way better MANPAD's like RBS 70 and Stingers
Pakis have a way better MANPADS than Indian MANPADS not necessarily way better than our helicopters who would have adequately catered for passive as also active AD measures. The level of MANPAD deployment as the Afghan Mujahideen had achieved in Afghanistan against Soviet Union is unlikely to be there astride our western borders. MANPADs will always exist in all types and theatres all over the world but that will never stop helicopters to be an able weapon and mobility platform.

So I don't think the current IBG can use the attack helicopters to cover the Tank or infantry coloumns
There are many areas on western border where AD situation could be as easy as Myanmar border.
IBG will definitely use all available attack helicopters for SAD operations, provision of fire support, as Anti Tank platforms, Escort operations, Flank protection and limited logistics support operations as also cas evac and SF operations.

I expect IAF to be fully co opted for IBG operations in plains, deserts and mountains whatever the case.

It seems Mi 35 looks better if we want to fight the Myanmar backed or North east terrorists
yes, that is also a border and the threats there could be as bad more in terms of terrain. It does not take any terrorist or insurgent outfit to arm themselves with MANPADS.

Do not rule out Indian responsibilities in terms of out of area contingencies. Operations like OP PAWAN in Sri Lanka or Operations in Maldives can always crop up anytime. We have our responsibilities towards Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Myanmar and some others.

MI-35 are platforms available with us, so we might as well use those to their utmost capabilities.
For that procurement of new missile systems from Russia is a welcome step. We should try and also fit those with latest and use those gainfully.
 

sorcerer

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My 2 cents , well duplicate post from mi 35 thread

So some of the IAF officials just secured a good package from Russia for their post retirement benefits , I've few questions for the idiotic IAF officers who made the deal and wasted around 200 cr

1. How many Mi 35 we have in service,
2. How long they are going to be in active service
3. Why we still buying a FLIR guided missile, which is so shit in current scenario
4. In what context IAF will use those Mi 35
5. What is the usage of Apache helicopters then

Is that Ataka missile import is much needed than modernizing the Bases in J&K to accomodate the Larger MKI planes,
Well!! I would say a FEW IAF officers wont be able to make a decision ALONE and pass it across to BUY ..
There is a lot of calculations that goes into it and them know their INVENTORY better than US.
Trust thy force
 

Lancer

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vampyrbladez

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I read somewhere that it's only for those who declare disability right before retiring, after having a full career - but I could be wrong.
It's for all who retire normally and are superannuated.
 

captscooby81

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Well looks like Gen BiRa is going to do down as the most hated chief for sure . someone here even created a thread saying will Gen BiRa be the best General ..

@vampyrbladez Govt especially BJP has a strong itch and it always want something sharp to keep scratching that itch till it bleeds . This is one of those moves where it wanted to tax the disability pension and loose all the good will of OROP now veterans are even saying BJP cheated them on OROP also and they are going to change it again ..

First created issue with removal of rations for officers which again restored after lots of outcry

Then capping on the CSD car purchase limits

Now this tax on pension
 

vampyrbladez

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Well looks like Gen BiRa is going to do down as the most hated chief for sure . someone here even created a thread saying will Gen BiRa be the best General ..

@vampyrbladez Govt especially BJP has a strong itch and it always want something sharp to keep scratching that itch till it bleeds . This is one of those moves where it wanted to tax the disability pension and loose all the good will of OROP now veterans are even saying BJP cheated them on OROP also and they are going to change it again ..

First created issue with removal of rations for officers which again restored after lots of outcry

Then capping on the CSD car purchase limits

Now this tax on pension
Def Min Rajnath has promised a reply to this in parliament. They will probably revoke this circular. Happened during ration and allowance issue.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...sability-pension/amp_articleshow/70046722.cms

Congress will never ever be trusted by anyone in this country. They are scum but now that we have made BJP win, we can thrash them whenever they step out of line.
 

Bhadra

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Well looks like Gen BiRa is going to do down as the most hated chief for sure . someone here even created a thread saying will Gen BiRa be the best General ..

@vampyrbladez Govt especially BJP has a strong itch and it always want something sharp to keep scratching that itch till it bleeds . This is one of those moves where it wanted to tax the disability pension and loose all the good will of OROP now veterans are even saying BJP cheated them on OROP also and they are going to change it again ..

First created issue with removal of rations for officers which again restored after lots of outcry

Then capping on the CSD car purchase limits

Now this tax on pension
There are many pointed lacunas in your arguments.

The news about the recent tax announcement says all three Services recommended Disability pension to be taxed. Veterans from all three services would be effected. Deptt of Ex Servicemen affairs is an MoD organisation not under COAS.

Is CSD an Army affair ? Or is it a tri-Service affair under MoD? Was the decision on Car cost ceiling that of MoD or Army?

Similarly, was the decision to not give ration in kind in peace was that of the Army or the VI Pay Commission recommendation, approved by the Cabinet and implemented by MoD ? you do not mean it applied only to Army?

Then why are you specifically naming and targeting Gen Vipin Rawat ? Certainly not out of love.

Any thing personal mate? Then keep it personal rather than venting your unfound stupid personal hatred in the public forums.
 

captscooby81

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I said looks like he will go down as the Most hated . That means there is enough hatred getting created against him inside the veteran community thanks to presstitute twisting that General is not taking the side of the soldiers and trying to please the govt which promoted him .

Second i pointed all those issues from CSD, Rations towards BJP govt not towards the General .

My concern was purely out of love and nothing because of hatred on him .:yo:

There are many pointed lacunas in your arguments.

The news about the recent tax announcement says all three Services recommended Disability pension to be taxed. Veterans from all three services would be effected. Deptt of Ex Servicemen affairs is an MoD organisation not under COAS.

Is CSD an Army affair ? Or is it a tri-Service affair under MoD? Was the decision on Car cost ceiling that of MoD or Army?

Similarly, was the decision to not give ration in kind in peace was that of the Army or the VI Pay Commission recommendation, approved by the Cabinet and implemented by MoD ? you do not mean it applied only to Army?

Then why are you specifically naming and targeting Gen Vipin Rawat ? Certainly not out of love.

Any thing personal mate? Then keep it personal rather than venting your unfound stupid personal hatred in the public forums.
 

Bhadra

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I said looks like he will go down as the Most hated . That means there is enough hatred getting created against him inside the veteran community thanks to presstitute twisting that General is not taking the side of the soldiers and trying to please the govt which promoted him .

Second i pointed all those issues from CSD, Rations towards BJP govt not towards the General .

My concern was purely out of love and nothing because of hatred on him .:yo:
Sorry Sir, I stand corrected.

The veteran community needs to know that the case not to give disability to generals , officers and soldiers was taken up by one of them - an ex DGAFMS.

The Veterans need to know that the highest percentage of disability at the time of retirement occurs among AMC and MNS personnel.

The Veteran Community needs to know that they wield greater political clout than COAS.

The COAS stand on these issues should not ordinarily be in public domain as per military ethos. All COAS have gone down the path as un-liked ones except for Sam Bahadur for very different reasons. A Chief is not supposed to be popular. Military decisions are never popular.
 
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captscooby81

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@Bhadra See when i said why the hatred is getting purely directed towards Gen Bipin Rawat . Look here another veteran is calling him a thief and backstabbing others for getting promoted . The govt has superseded the others to promote him did he went and requested the govt to do it? Plus this gentleman was saner of the veterans who mostly not a congress boot licker, but here he also looks lost his cool . there are other veterans who are literally worse than congress party workers when it comes to talking about Govt or the chief

RA1.jpg
RA2.jpg
 

sorcerer

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@Bhadra See when i said why the hatred is getting purely directed towards Gen Bipin Rawat . Look here another veteran is calling him a thief and backstabbing others for getting promoted . The govt has superseded the others to promote him did he went and requested the govt to do it? Plus this gentleman was saner of the veterans who mostly not a congress boot licker, but here he also looks lost his cool . there are other veterans who are literally worse than congress party workers when it comes to talking about Govt or the chief

View attachment 36027 View attachment 36028
:D
some occupational hazard that is :D
 

vampyrbladez

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@Bhadra See when i said why the hatred is getting purely directed towards Gen Bipin Rawat . Look here another veteran is calling him a thief and backstabbing others for getting promoted . The govt has superseded the others to promote him did he went and requested the govt to do it? Plus this gentleman was saner of the veterans who mostly not a congress boot licker, but here he also looks lost his cool . there are other veterans who are literally worse than congress party workers when it comes to talking about Govt or the chief

View attachment 36027 View attachment 36028
This is the Lutyens lobby waking up to create panic and chaos. After "dara hua musalman", now it is army discontent. This is why I hate Congi fuckers.

Coincidentally happening when selection of new Army Chief is underway. They don't want their Lutyens guy to be superceded. Keep watch here.
 
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captscooby81

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Well i thought Gen Rawat will stay as COAS till Dec 2020 . Are you sure he is superannuating this year ? its CAS Dhanoa who is superannuating in next few months .

Coincidentally happening when selection of new Army Chief is underway. They don't want their Lutyens guy to be superceded. Keep watch here.
 

Bhadra

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@Bhadra See when i said why the hatred is getting purely directed towards Gen Bipin Rawat . Look here another veteran is calling him a thief and backstabbing others for getting promoted . The govt has superseded the others to promote him did he went and requested the govt to do it? Plus this gentleman was saner of the veterans who mostly not a congress boot licker, but here he also looks lost his cool . there are other veterans who are literally worse than congress party workers when it comes to talking about Govt or the chief

View attachment 36027 View attachment 36028
I too am saddened by the developments.

However, the attacks on present COAS like those quoted by you are of "superseded Standards", very low and personal in nature which has no place in issue based discussion.

I also read with disamy sound arguments preferred by others like Gen Atta Hussnain, who quoted examples of Gen Cardozo, Gen Oberoi and Gen Joshi the finest generals I have come across who lost their limbs in wars but served full terms in the Army with distinction. Taxing their pensions despite disabilities due to battle wounds is an extreme step and an insult.

Unfortunately, I am also aware of the environment that pervades amongst those who deal with the matter. ADGPS and his staff who deal with the matter are one of the most insignificant people in the operational functioning of the Army but very significant when it comes pay, perks, pensions and conditions of service. The staff are largely those superseded officers who would not fit anywhere, who would not have fired even a single bullet under operational conditions in their life and non interested re-employed ASC / AOC officers who trade around the tables rather than know anything on pensionary issues. They have more interests in getting their advocate friends in AFT some cases rather than solve the cases themselves. Coupled with the uncooperative and indifferent civilian staff of AG's Branch, they by and large turn out to be big negative force working against the pensioners. The are incapable of visualising the difficulties of battle wounded soldiers and do their utmost best to question any battle related benefits. They are the ones who have been responsible for taking maximum cases to the high courts and Supreme Courts if AFT rules in favour of the soldiers and hang the case for years to come. Since they do not have to pay out of their pockets every case for them is a Supreme Court case.

Even at its worst, all battle casualty pensions should have been recommended to be tax free if peacetime life style type desability (hypertension, diabetes etc) was intended to be discouraged. A man who has lost his leg , limb or sustains wound of bullets, mines, grenades or IED, natural disasters in battle areas should not have been effected.

Regulations clearly distinguishes between disability due to battle casualties and disability in peace attributable to military service. The battle casualty disability pension clearly should not be taxed.

I fear this issue gaining traction and becoming a big issue.

Not a wise move for any one, be it bureaucracy, defence brass or Mr Modi's image. BJP should stem the tide at this stage itself. Or it is going to flare up.

At the end though it must be added that there is no smoke without a fire.
 
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Bhadra

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@Bhadra See when i said why the hatred is getting purely directed towards Gen Bipin Rawat . Look here another veteran is calling him a thief and backstabbing others for getting promoted . The govt has superseded the others to promote him did he went and requested the govt to do it? Plus this gentleman was saner of the veterans who mostly not a congress boot licker, but here he also looks lost his cool . there are other veterans who are literally worse than congress party workers when it comes to talking about Govt or the chief

View attachment 36027 View attachment 36028
It would not be difficult to find why this Rohit Aggarwal was thrown out of Service.... Such arguments can not resolve the issue.
 

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