Indian Army: News and Discussion

[12arya]

No end of the road for Gypsy in Indian Army
Army has placed an order for thousands of Gypsy cars even after Maruti Suzuki has stoped making them.

The Gypsy is a part of the Republic Day parade and other ceremonial Army events

By Mayank Singh
Express News Service
NEW DELHI: The Indian Army has decided to procure thousands of Gypsy vehicles even though manufacturer Maruti Suzuki has stopped their production, after obtaining a special waiver from the Ministry of Defence on safety and emission norms. Maruti Suzuki India Ltd. had announced in October 2018 that it was stopping production of the Gypsy in April 2019. But, due to operational and logistics compulsions, the Army has placed an order for 3,051 Gypsy vehicles.

An Army officer said, “The Army is using the vehicle in the tough mountainous terrains of Kashmir and the northeast. Initially, the company had expressed its inability as the vehicle does not meet new safety and emission norms. We convinced the ministry about the requirement and it gave us the requisite waiver.”

The Army has already selected Safari Storme, manufactured by Tata Motors, as the replacement for the Gypsy. Trials for the replacement had been on for almost five years. The Safari Storme and Scorpio from Mahindra were found to meet the Army’s requirements. Finally, Safari Storme was selected as Tata Motors had made the lowest bid. The Army placed an order for 3,192 Safari Stormes, of which about 90 per cent have been delivered. But there were some compulsions for placing the fresh order for the Gypsy vehicles.
The officer said, “Safari Storme is a little larger vehicle, and the roads in the mountains are narrow, for which we require the Gypsy.”

Another reason is that the Safari Stormes procured by the Army are all hardtop models. “The Gypsy has the options of hard top and soft top. We can place our rifles, fully armed soldiers of the Quick Reaction Teams can stand, and recoilless guns can also be mounted.” Tata Motors had refused to modify the Safari Storme.

The process for procuring a new model would have taken five to six years, so the Gypsy was chosen to fulfil the immediate requirement. The Army uses about 30,000 vehicles of this category and the old ones are being retired in phases. There is a need for about 8,000 such vehicles at present, and the Safari Storme and Gypsy cars will meet the immediate requirement. The Gypsy has been serving the Indian armed forces since 1991. More than 35,000 Gypsy cars have been delivered to the Army alone.

Why the Gypsy?

The Army uses the Gypsy in the tough mountainous terrains of Kashmir and the northeast. The Safari Storme, chosen by the Army as the replacement for the Gypsy, is a little larger vehicle, and the roads in the mountains are narrow and better navigated by the Gypsy, said an Army officer. Also, the Gypsy comes with a soft top option, which allows the Army to mount rifles and recoilless guns on it. Fully armed soldiers can also stand at the back. The Safari Storme, which comes only with a hard top, does not allow such use.

 

[12arya]

Media will soon need Army nod to telecast videos sent by terrorists
Television channels may soon require clearance from the Indian Army for broadcasting videos provided by terrorist or terrorist groups.

NEW DELHI: Television channels may soon require clearance from the Indian Army for broadcasting videos provided by terrorist or terrorist groups. Based on a plaint filed by the Army, News Broadcasting Standards Authority (NBSA) has said the broadcasters should exercise care and caution with regard to matters of national security and while using materials sent by terrorists.

The Army had approached NBSA against news channels, which had broadcast a video of soldier Aurangzeb being interrogated by terrorists. The soldier was serving with 44 Rashtriya Rifles in Kashmir. He was abducted on June 15, 2018, when he was on his way home for Eid. Later his bullet-ridden body was found in a field. Subsequently, a video of terrorists questioning Aurangzeb was sent to a news channel with an intention to create an atmosphere of fear.

 

[uoftotaku]

Media will soon need Army nod to telecast videos sent by terrorists
Television channels may soon require clearance from the Indian Army for broadcasting videos provided by terrorist or terrorist groups.

NEW DELHI: Television channels may soon require clearance from the Indian Army for broadcasting videos provided by terrorist or terrorist groups. Based on a plaint filed by the Army, News Broadcasting Standards Authority (NBSA) has said the broadcasters should exercise care and caution with regard to matters of national security and while using materials sent by terrorists.

The Army had approached NBSA against news channels, which had broadcast a video of soldier Aurangzeb being interrogated by terrorists. The soldier was serving with 44 Rashtriya Rifles in Kashmir. He was abducted on June 15, 2018, when he was on his way home for Eid. Later his bullet-ridden body was found in a field. Subsequently, a video of terrorists questioning Aurangzeb was sent to a news channel with an intention to create an atmosphere of fear.

Long overdue step. No doubt presstitutes will do randi rona dharna but definitely required law. Even after being implemented post 26/11 the law has not been enforced or respected, TRP hunters continue in their old ways. Total control is required, same as the UK, any video concerning armed forces MUST be cleared by MoD before broadcast. No exceptions.

 

[indiatester]

Media will soon need Army nod to telecast videos sent by terrorists
Television channels may soon require clearance from the Indian Army for broadcasting videos provided by terrorist or terrorist groups.

NEW DELHI: Television channels may soon require clearance from the Indian Army for broadcasting videos provided by terrorist or terrorist groups. Based on a plaint filed by the Army, News Broadcasting Standards Authority (NBSA) has said the broadcasters should exercise care and caution with regard to matters of national security and while using materials sent by terrorists.

The Army had approached NBSA against news channels, which had broadcast a video of soldier Aurangzeb being interrogated by terrorists. The soldier was serving with 44 Rashtriya Rifles in Kashmir. He was abducted on June 15, 2018, when he was on his way home for Eid. Later his bullet-ridden body was found in a field. Subsequently, a video of terrorists questioning Aurangzeb was sent to a news channel with an intention to create an atmosphere of fear.

I think we should leave it to the judgement of the news channel. In this day and age, the video will surface somewhere and we should build enough inherent controls into the news organizations that they themselves have reasonable control to not damage the national image or further anti-India propaganda.

 

[uoftotaku]

I think we should leave it to the judgement of the news channel. In this day and age, the video will surface somewhere and we should build enough inherent controls into the news organizations that they themselves have reasonable control to not damage the national image or further anti-India propaganda.

Our media unfortunately has shown time and again that they simply lack the maturity and sense of responsibility to be given that choice and benefit of doubt any longer. Heck, just on these forums we have a whole thread with blatant examples of domestic media indulging in ANTI-national activities and propaganda...how would you reasonably expect these same jokers to exercise self restraint and responsibility?

 

[indiatester]

Our media unfortunately has shown time and again that they simply lack the maturity and sense of responsibility to be given that choice and benefit of doubt any longer. Heck, just on these forums we have a whole thread with blatant examples of domestic media indulging in ANTI-national activities and propaganda...how would you reasonably expect these same jokers to exercise self restraint and responsibility?

I agree, but we did see a degree of change. NDTV is now a white elephant to whoever is trying to sustain them and other sensible presenters have grown in stature.
Sanitizing media of anti-India forces should be handled independently. This permission from forces to publish news is going to bring in censor in another form which we ourselves will repent later on.

 

[mayfair]

I agree, but we did see a degree of change. NDTV is now a white elephant to whoever is trying to sustain them and other sensible presenters have grown in stature.

They are part-owned by Mota-bhai, just like Firstpost. I think he'll be able to keep them afloat.

 

[ezsasa]

Both desi and israeli LORROS are already in service, i wonder why a new RFI has been released...

 

[bhramos]

Speaks poorly of the planning process. In the initial planning stage itself it should have been known that Few precision rifle manufacturers make ammunition. These aSniper rifles for Indian Army delayed as 20 firms offer weapon, but none make ammunition

 

[rkhanna]

Speaks poorly of the planning process. In the initial planning stage itself it should have been known that Few precision rifle manufacturers make ammunition. These aSniper rifles for Indian Army delayed as 20 firms offer weapon, but none make ammunition

Lol just lol. First we order small arms of every caliber in the world and forget the ammo

And the army wants to implement things like SOD and cyber warfare command lol

 

[bhramos]

India’s Infantry Combat Vehicles project may just die from apathy

 

[uoftotaku]

Lol just lol. First we order small arms of every caliber in the world and forget the ammo

And the army wants to implement things like SOD and cyber warfare command lol

Don't blame the Army but rather the MoD's truly pathetic and inflexible DPP which forces the break up of procurements into individual tenders and doesn't allow even related items (like a gun and its associated accessories and ammo) to be sourced together

 

[Bhadra]

Don't blame the Army but rather the MoD's truly pathetic and inflexible DPP which forces the break up of procurements into individual tenders and doesn't allow even related items (like a gun and its associated accessories and ammo) to be sourced together

You are right..... that is called chutiyapa of Babudom wherein Babus deliberately break / divide orders to avoid accptanace from higher CFA or the file moving to CCS / PMO. That means a delay of many months.


But they should have thought about the firms which make the weapon as also ammunition specially when ToT was involved.

 

[abingdonboy]

@Unknowncommando 2 please keep posting regular pic shows of IA CT ops bro, i like to track the equipment/tactics upgrades of the CI/CT units.

 

[uoftotaku]

But they should have thought about the firms which make the weapon as also ammunition specially when ToT was involved.

If you look around there are actually very few gun makers who also make ammo. I can of think SiG, IWI and Kalashnikov of the top of my head only. In the US there are specialist ammo makers like Wolf, Norma etc who are a much better source for the type of "match grade" ammo required for sniper rifles

 

[rkhanna]

If you look around there are actually very few gun makers who also make ammo. I can of think SiG, IWI and Kalashnikov of the top of my head only. In the US there are specialist ammo makers like Wolf, Norma etc who are a much better source for the type of "match grade" ammo required for sniper rifles

First within our experts we need to have an understanding of "match grade" ammo before we even go around trying to get RFPs and RFIs

The scope of our small arms understanding is still limited compared to the US/UK/Israel/Russia. Is a result of lack of R&D and involvement of the forces in the OFB processes. Even the knowledge of quarter Masters and gun Smith's at a battalion/regiment level is lost

 

[rkhanna]

Don't blame the Army but rather the MoD's truly pathetic and inflexible DPP which forces the break up of procurements into individual tenders and doesn't allow even related items (like a gun and its associated accessories and ammo) to be sourced together

How come the Navy and Airforce seem to get their procurement more in point than the army ?

Army is as much to blame. The bureacracy of MOD is very much present in the Army as well. I have seen it first hand and it's only gotten worse over the years.

Hell the 10 para SF are using COT imported Chinese drones because of army stupidity

 

[uoftotaku]

First within our experts we need to have an understanding of "match grade" ammo before we even go around trying to get RFPs and RFIs

The scope of our small arms understanding is still limited compared to the US/UK/Israel/Russia. Is a result of lack of R&D and involvement of the forces in the OFB processes. Even the knowledge of quarter Masters and gun Smith's at a battalion/regiment level is lost

Agreed. Remember the stupidity of last time they tried to procure sniper rifles they asked for the guns to be capable of mounting bayonets and having wooden stock....some of the 2 and 3 stars are still stuck in 1970's mindset

 

[Vijyes]

Army commanders whose bases breached in terror attacks may be told to quit

Commanders who were in charge of the Uri brigade, the Sunjuwan military camp and the Nagrota army base in Jammu and Kashmir when their establishments were stormed by terrorists in past years may have “to go home”, the government has decided, seeking to take action against the senior leadership for security lapses that may have aided the attacks.

The government has communicated its recommendation to the Indian Army, a senior official in the security establishment said, requesting anonymity because he is not authorised to speak to the media.

Essentially, the government wants these officers to put in their papers and retire. The officers will still be eligible to receive all the benefits that are due to them, he added.

“The army was communicated that commanders should put in their papers days after the new government was sworn in,” said a second official in the security establishment, who also did not want to be named.


The decision comes less than a month after the Bharatiya Janata Party-led National Democratic Alliance (NDA) was sworn in for a second successive term in office after winning a commanding majority in the April-May general elections.

A total of 36 army personnel died in the three attacks, two of which — on the Uri brigade and the Nagrota base — took place in 2016, and the third — on the Sunjuwan camp — last year.

An Indian Army spokesperson did not comment on the government’s decision. “I have no information,” the spokesperson said in reply to a query by HT.

A group of terrorists sneaked into the Brigade Headquarters in Uri, killing 19 soldiers, on September 18, 2016. Seven soldiers, including an officer, died when terrorist stormed the 16 Corps Artillery Brigade located in Nagrota on November 29, 2016. Eleven soldiers were killed when terrorists attacked the Sunjuwan camp on February 10, 2018.

The Uri attack prompted the Indian Army to carry out cross-border “surgical strikes” on terrorist camps on 28 September, 2016, an action that sparked fears of war between India and Pakistan

Inquires by the Indian Army into the Uri attack revealed lapses, according to the first official. For instance, troops were housed in tents although safer shelters were available. Importantly, there had been prior information about a possible attack.

Similarly, inquiries into the attacks in Nagrota and Sunjuwan also revealed command and control lapses, the official said. For instance, a terrorist breached the security cordon in Nagrota and entered the camp but was not detected by multiple layers of security. A machine-gun mounted security post that came in the way of the terrorist allegedly offered no resistance.

Action against commanders is not a completely new proposal. During the NDA’s previous regime, then defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman had pushed for strong action in such cases. Prime Minister Narendra Modi had expressed his extreme displeasure over the attacks in conversations with the army and air force chiefs, a third government official said on condition of anonymity. The military, however, resisted, he added.

On its part, the government wants to hold senior leadership responsible for lapses that may have aided the terror attacks. After the Modi government came back to power last month, it revived the move for action against commanders under whose watch their establishments were attacked by terrorists, a fourth senior official who did not want to be named said.

The Indian Army is not keen to retire the commanders because of operational issues. “The attacks have been probed. Necessary steps have been initiated already, can action be initiated again?” a senior Indian Army officer, who did not want to be named, asked.

Interestingly, one of the base commanders had just assumed charge two days before the attack.

The military had resisted previous attempts by the government to initiate exemplary action against officers on grounds that any action, other than removal from command, against them could set a bad precedent and make future commanders engaged in counter-insurgency and counterterror (CICT) operations apprehensive.

“Being removed from command is disgraceful,” General Bipin Rawat, the army chief, had earlier said when asked whether the army was considering stricter action.

The army had also argued that punishing officers for terror attacks would lead to a “fortress mindset” at a time when militaries spend more energy protecting bases and minimising casualties rather than pursuing terrorists.

“If officers are punished for terrorists managing to carry out an attack, casualties of soldiers, the focus and tempo of counterterror operations in Jammu and Kashmir and the north-eastern states will have to change,” another senior army officer, who has served many years in Jammu and Kashmir, said.

 

[ezsasa]

Army commanders whose bases breached in terror attacks may be told to quit

Commanders who were in charge of the Uri brigade, the Sunjuwan military camp and the Nagrota army base in Jammu and Kashmir when their establishments were stormed by terrorists in past years may have “to go home”, the government has decided, seeking to take action against the senior leadership for security lapses that may have aided the attacks.

The government has communicated its recommendation to the Indian Army, a senior official in the security establishment said, requesting anonymity because he is not authorised to speak to the media.

Essentially, the government wants these officers to put in their papers and retire. The officers will still be eligible to receive all the benefits that are due to them, he added.

“The army was communicated that commanders should put in their papers days after the new government was sworn in,” said a second official in the security establishment, who also did not want to be named.


The decision comes less than a month after the Bharatiya Janata Party-led National Democratic Alliance (NDA) was sworn in for a second successive term in office after winning a commanding majority in the April-May general elections.

A total of 36 army personnel died in the three attacks, two of which — on the Uri brigade and the Nagrota base — took place in 2016, and the third — on the Sunjuwan camp — last year.

An Indian Army spokesperson did not comment on the government’s decision. “I have no information,” the spokesperson said in reply to a query by HT.

A group of terrorists sneaked into the Brigade Headquarters in Uri, killing 19 soldiers, on September 18, 2016. Seven soldiers, including an officer, died when terrorist stormed the 16 Corps Artillery Brigade located in Nagrota on November 29, 2016. Eleven soldiers were killed when terrorists attacked the Sunjuwan camp on February 10, 2018.

The Uri attack prompted the Indian Army to carry out cross-border “surgical strikes” on terrorist camps on 28 September, 2016, an action that sparked fears of war between India and Pakistan

Inquires by the Indian Army into the Uri attack revealed lapses, according to the first official. For instance, troops were housed in tents although safer shelters were available. Importantly, there had been prior information about a possible attack.

Similarly, inquiries into the attacks in Nagrota and Sunjuwan also revealed command and control lapses, the official said. For instance, a terrorist breached the security cordon in Nagrota and entered the camp but was not detected by multiple layers of security. A machine-gun mounted security post that came in the way of the terrorist allegedly offered no resistance.

Action against commanders is not a completely new proposal. During the NDA’s previous regime, then defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman had pushed for strong action in such cases. Prime Minister Narendra Modi had expressed his extreme displeasure over the attacks in conversations with the army and air force chiefs, a third government official said on condition of anonymity. The military, however, resisted, he added.

On its part, the government wants to hold senior leadership responsible for lapses that may have aided the terror attacks. After the Modi government came back to power last month, it revived the move for action against commanders under whose watch their establishments were attacked by terrorists, a fourth senior official who did not want to be named said.

The Indian Army is not keen to retire the commanders because of operational issues. “The attacks have been probed. Necessary steps have been initiated already, can action be initiated again?” a senior Indian Army officer, who did not want to be named, asked.

Interestingly, one of the base commanders had just assumed charge two days before the attack.

The military had resisted previous attempts by the government to initiate exemplary action against officers on grounds that any action, other than removal from command, against them could set a bad precedent and make future commanders engaged in counter-insurgency and counterterror (CICT) operations apprehensive.

“Being removed from command is disgraceful,” General Bipin Rawat, the army chief, had earlier said when asked whether the army was considering stricter action.

The army had also argued that punishing officers for terror attacks would lead to a “fortress mindset” at a time when militaries spend more energy protecting bases and minimising casualties rather than pursuing terrorists.

“If officers are punished for terrorists managing to carry out an attack, casualties of soldiers, the focus and tempo of counterterror operations in Jammu and Kashmir and the north-eastern states will have to change,” another senior army officer, who has served many years in Jammu and Kashmir, said.

Nope, I do not agree with this approach.

The fact that so much perimeter defence upgrades happened after URI attack in all bases , indicates that there was a requirement which was not attended to by army leadership in advance.

Unless there was a case of specific intel was ignored, commanders can’t be blamed.