Indian Army: News and Discussion

WolfPack86

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Indian Army Wants 500 Anti-Terror Robotic Vehicles In Kashmir
In perhaps the most tense security atmosphere in the newly divided Jammu & Kashmir — and perceiving an up in Pakistan-fueled terror — the Indian Army has made an intriguing announcement. It has announced interest in procuring over 500 remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) specifically to track, engage and combat terrorists in built-up areas. While the Army has had tentative interest over the years in such a capability, its interest in such a large number establishes at the very least that trials with sample vehicles have proven their value. And now the Army wants to move quickly.

Designated the ‘Robotic Surveillance Platform’, the Indian Army has called for a procurement under the Indian Defence Procurement Procedure’s ‘Make’ category, which mandates indigenous design, development and manufacture. To be deployed with the Rashtriya Rifles counter-insurgency force deployed in Jammu & Kashmir, the Army defines the capability as follows:

The four-point mission profile envisages robots tracking terrorists and then being used for the high-risk initial breach in built up areas, an action that has seen consistent casualties in encounters both in the Kashmir Valley and beyond. Livefist can confirm that Army Rashtriya Rifles units have used samples of the armed version of DRDO’s Daksh ROV to test the capability:

The Indian Army already operates the baseline explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) version of the Daksh ROV, inducting a first batch in 2012, and currently operates 20 specimens. A mini version of the Daksh is also in service with India’s National Security Guard (NSG). It also operates British origin ROVs for bomb disposal. The new requirement for armed ROVs strongly indicates the Army has been satisfied enough with the capability demonstrated by prototypes, and definitely by the increase in number of built-up area encounters it expects to see in a freshly turbulent Jammu & Kashmir.

Paperwork on the Army’s new requirement for 500 counter-insurgency ROVs provides details that indicate modifications of existing systems in development. The Army wants ROVs deployable at night, and operable from a range of up to 200 meters. The requirement also mandates grenade launch, though the Army will almost definitely want a machinegun/assault rifle mount. A stair-climbing and obstacle crossing capability will be required, especially since encounters have frequently involved terrorists hiding in attics of houses. Interestingly, it also wants a system that is man-portable, presumably in knocked down assembly kits at the infantry company level. Either way, a solution will have to be an amalgamation of some of the DRDO’s current technology demonstrators:

The DRDO, which is fine-tuning the armed Daksh ROV, unveiled a new platform at the Aero India 2019 show this year, designated the Mobile Autonomous Surveillance System (MASS) that appears to be in line with what the Army is looking for:

The DRDO, in fact, has been steeped in development of a whole host of ROVs, detailed in this video accessed by Livefist in 2017. Items in test include stair-climbing mini ROVs to armoured personnel carrier-sized unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs) like the Muntra based on the BMP-II. Responding to an Army requirement, the DRDO is also testing a tracked ROV ‘Himbot’ for snowbound areas and avalanche rescue missions.
 

Blademaster

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Indian Army Wants 500 Anti-Terror Robotic Vehicles In Kashmir
In perhaps the most tense security atmosphere in the newly divided Jammu & Kashmir — and perceiving an up in Pakistan-fueled terror — the Indian Army has made an intriguing announcement. It has announced interest in procuring over 500 remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) specifically to track, engage and combat terrorists in built-up areas. While the Army has had tentative interest over the years in such a capability, its interest in such a large number establishes at the very least that trials with sample vehicles have proven their value. And now the Army wants to move quickly.

Designated the ‘Robotic Surveillance Platform’, the Indian Army has called for a procurement under the Indian Defence Procurement Procedure’s ‘Make’ category, which mandates indigenous design, development and manufacture. To be deployed with the Rashtriya Rifles counter-insurgency force deployed in Jammu & Kashmir, the Army defines the capability as follows:

The four-point mission profile envisages robots tracking terrorists and then being used for the high-risk initial breach in built up areas, an action that has seen consistent casualties in encounters both in the Kashmir Valley and beyond. Livefist can confirm that Army Rashtriya Rifles units have used samples of the armed version of DRDO’s Daksh ROV to test the capability:

The Indian Army already operates the baseline explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) version of the Daksh ROV, inducting a first batch in 2012, and currently operates 20 specimens. A mini version of the Daksh is also in service with India’s National Security Guard (NSG). It also operates British origin ROVs for bomb disposal. The new requirement for armed ROVs strongly indicates the Army has been satisfied enough with the capability demonstrated by prototypes, and definitely by the increase in number of built-up area encounters it expects to see in a freshly turbulent Jammu & Kashmir.

Paperwork on the Army’s new requirement for 500 counter-insurgency ROVs provides details that indicate modifications of existing systems in development. The Army wants ROVs deployable at night, and operable from a range of up to 200 meters. The requirement also mandates grenade launch, though the Army will almost definitely want a machinegun/assault rifle mount. A stair-climbing and obstacle crossing capability will be required, especially since encounters have frequently involved terrorists hiding in attics of houses. Interestingly, it also wants a system that is man-portable, presumably in knocked down assembly kits at the infantry company level. Either way, a solution will have to be an amalgamation of some of the DRDO’s current technology demonstrators:

The DRDO, which is fine-tuning the armed Daksh ROV, unveiled a new platform at the Aero India 2019 show this year, designated the Mobile Autonomous Surveillance System (MASS) that appears to be in line with what the Army is looking for:

The DRDO, in fact, has been steeped in development of a whole host of ROVs, detailed in this video accessed by Livefist in 2017. Items in test include stair-climbing mini ROVs to armoured personnel carrier-sized unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs) like the Muntra based on the BMP-II. Responding to an Army requirement, the DRDO is also testing a tracked ROV ‘Himbot’ for snowbound areas and avalanche rescue missions.
This is old news! It came out in 2019.
 

WolfPack86

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Army develops multi-utility legged equipment. Here's how it works
Event comprised of exhibitions, product launches, structured interactions, technical seminars, ideas & innovation displays; & military equipment displays.


The North-Tech Symposium 2023 was jointly organised by the Indian Army's Northern Command, the Society of Indian Defence Manufacturers (SIDM) and IIT-Jammu on Tuesday in Jammu. The event comprised exhibitions, product launches, one-on-one structured interactions, technical seminars, ideas and innovation displays as well as military equipment displays.

Speaking at the seminar, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said, “Though research and development (R&D) is a risky venture as it requires out-of-the-box thinking and sometimes does not give desired results, it still remains one of the basic elements for the development of any country. Hence, capital investment in R&D becomes a necessity.”

Here are a few equipment displayed at the event:

Multi-utility legged equipment
One of the equipment displayed at the symposium was a Multi-utility legged equipment (MULE). The four-legged equipment has a sleek design along with camera and radars.

Having a payload capacity of 12 kg, the equipment can be used on Wi-Fi or Long-Term Evolution (LTE). For short ranges, Wi-Fi can be used, whereas LTE can be used for distances up to 10 km from a remote location.

The MULE controlled by an easy-to-operate remoter control. It is an analog-faced machine.

Several payloads can be attached to the MULE like thermal cameras and radars. Not just that, a firing platform can also be integrated into it.

Pre-fed missions can be uploaded on the system to convey what mission is to be completed, be it through waypoints or recorded missions.

It is also viable to be used in all terrains — including snow and mountains. It can climb mountains hassle-free at upto 45 degrees and climb steps as high as 18 cm.

R&D Engineer at ARC Ventures Aryan Singh said, speaking to news agency ANI, “We can generally use it in the case of first contact. For example, we know our enemy is in a room but we don't know the exact location they are at inside the room, so we can use the 360 degrees cameras on the MULE and enter the room. The operator will find out where the enemy exactly is inside the room and the firing platform can be used to shoot down the enemy.”

Multi Weapon Engagement System (Anti Drone System)
Another equipment showcased at the symposium was an AI-based Autonomous Multi Weapon Engagement System (Anti Drone System). It's main objective is to shoot down drones and “kill” them.

The system is divided in three parts — the first is a weapon platform where several types of weapons including light machine guns, rifle and carbine can be installed; the second is an AI-based laptop; and the third is a controller box.

It consists of two modes — the autonomous mode and manual mode. In autonomous mode, it would detect and track the drone itself, and allow the operator to kill the target. In manual mode, it can be used for a survillance.

The system can shoot down any target, ariel or terrastrial.

It has been developed by the Military College Of Electronics And Mechanical Engineering. (MCEME)
 

Eagle Eye

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"Do whatever u deem appropriate" this what RM Rajnath singh told Army Chief Gen MM Nararvane in Aug 31,2020, during India-China stand off.

Modi Govt literally dropped the ball in Army to take a call.

Ps- "Evil eye", "Not an inch"-bravado only for Pak.
 
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another_armchair

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NEW DELHI: The armed forces were taken by surprise by the government's formulation of the Agnipath scheme for short-term recruitment of soldiers, airmen and sailors, and argued for a greater number of personnel to be retained in service after the four-year tenure and for Agniveers to be paid better, as per former Army Chief Gen M M Naravane.
According to a PTI report quoting his forthcoming memoir 'Four Stars of Destiny', Naravane sounded out the PM in early 2020 about a 'Tour of Duty' proposal, under which "a limited number" of jawans could be enrolled for a short term, on the lines of short-service commission for some officers.

After some time, the PMO came up with a formulation that not only should the entire intake of military personnel in a year be on a short-service basis, but that it would apply to the IAF and the Navy as well, as per PTI quoting from an advance copy of the book published by Penguin Random House India.
"We in the army were taken by surprise by this turn of events, but for the navy and air force, it came like a bolt from the blue," Gen Naravane writes. He says it took him some time to explain to the IAF and Navy chiefs that his proposal had only been army-centric and that he was equally surprised by these developments.

"Having become a tri-service matter, it now fell on Chief of Defence Staff general Bipin Rawat to take the proposal forward, albeit with the Army remaining the lead service," he adds.
Gen Naravane, who was the Army chief from December 31, 2019 to April 30, 2022, notes that various models of the scheme were deliberated upon, with the army's initial argument being that 75% of the jawans to be recruited should be retained, while 25% could be released from service. Eventually, when Agnipath was rolled out in June 2022 as a "transformative scheme" to lower the age profile of the armed forces, it was held that only 25% of around 46,000 soldiers, airmen and sailors to be selected in a year would serve for another 15 years after the first four years.

Gen Naravane also recalls in the book that the first year's starting salary for the inductees was Rs 20,000 per month (all-inclusive). "This was just not acceptable. Here, we were talking about a trained soldier who was expected to lay down his life for the country. Surely a soldier could not be compared with a daily-wage labourer? Based on our very strong recommendations, this was later raised to Rs 30,000 per month," he says.
Answering questions on why he was not appointed the chief of defence staff after Gen Rawat's untimely death , Gen Naravane writes, "I never questioned the wisdom of the government when it made me the army chief, so why should I do so now?"

----------------------------------

Gen. Rawat passes away in a chopper crash in Dec'21.

Angeepath rollout covers all three forces. Was originally proposed only for the Army.

Hua toh hua.
 

another_armchair

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Chalo, at least Gen. Naravane is talking.

Hope he doesn't get killed during a house break in or a road accident.

Bad things happen to people in this country if they decide to speak uncomfortable truths..
 

another_armchair

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In his memoir Four Stars of Destiny, Naravane recounts Singh's direction as well as a flurry of phone calls between the defence minister, external affairs minister, the national security advisor and the chief of defence staff that night on the sensitive situation

After Singh's call, Naravane says a hundred different thoughts "flashed through" his mind.

"I conveyed the criticality of the situation to the RM (Raksha Mantri), who said he would get back to me, which he did, by about 2230 hours," writes Naravane.

"He said that he had spoken to the PM and that it was purely a military decision. Jo ucchit samjho woh karo (Do whatever you deem is appropriate)."

"I had been handed a hot potato. With this carte blanche, the onus was now totally on me. I took a deep breath and sat silently for a few minutes. All was quiet save for the ticking of the wall clock," he says.

"I was in my den at Army House, with the map of J and K and Ladakh on one wall, Eastern Command on another. They were unmarked maps, but as I looked at them, I could visualise the location of each and every unit and formation. We were ready in all respects, but did I really want to start a war?" he writes.

In the memoir, Gen Naravane reflects on his thought process that night.

"The country was in bad shape, reeling under the Covid pandemic. The economy was faltering, global supply chains had broken down. Would we be able to ensure a steady supply of spares, etc., under these conditions, in case of a long-drawn-out action?"

"Who were our supporters in the global arena, and what about the collusive threat from China and Pakistan? A hundred different thoughts flashed through my mind," he writes.

"This was no war game being played in a sand model room of the Army War College, but a life and death situation."

Naravane says after a few moments of quiet reflection, he called up Northern Army Commander Lt Gen YK Joshi.

"'We cannot be the first ones to fire,' I told him, as it would provide the Chinese with an excuse, a casus belli, to escalate and paint us as the aggressors."

"Even at Mukhpari (on the Kailash Range) the previous day, it had been the PLA who had fired first (being only two rounds by the PLA and three rounds by us, it had escaped the attention of the media)," he writes.

Naravane says he felt that the Army should maintain this stance.

"Instead, I told him to move a troop of our tanks right to the forward slopes of the Pass and depress their guns so that the PLA would be staring down the barrels of our guns," he writes.

"This was done forthwith and the PLA tanks, which had by then reached within a few hundred metres of the top, stopped in their tracks," he says.

"Their light tanks would have been no match for our medium tanks. It was a game of bluff and the PLA blinked first."

Naravane writes the PLA moved troops from Moldo to the area of Chuti Changla towards the South Bank of the Pangong Tso on the intervening night of August 29-30.

By evening itself, they moved forward some troops in the area of the Kailash Range, he says.

By the evening of the 30th, the Indian Army was in a strong position both on the North and South Bank of Pangong Tso as well as the Kailash Range.

"The PLA reaction was not long in coming. On the 30th evening itself, they moved forward some troops in the area of the Kailash Range, stopping about 500 metres short of our locations and started digging in," he says.

Naravane says the PLA locations were at lower heights and directly under our observation.

"As such, they were of no threat to us, but if they were to come up in strength and try to outflank or surround our localities, then we would have to take action. The situation was tense and nearing breaking point," he says.

Naravane says the daylight hours of August 31 saw a lot of movement on the PLA side, even as the Army consolidated its own position.

Towards the afternoon, movement of PLA armour was also observed in the area of their garrison at Moldo. Seeing this, our tanks at Tara Base were also ordered to move up to Rechin La, he says.

Naravane says mobilisation of PLA troops was seen in some other locations as well.

"At 2015 hours on the evening of 31 August, Jo (Joshi) rang me up, quite worried. He reported that four tanks supported by infantry had slowly started moving up the track towards Rechin La," he says.

"They had fired an illuminating round but this had had no effect. I had clear orders not to open fire, 'till cleared from the very top'. A flurry of calls followed, between the RM, EAM, NSA, CDS and myself over the next half-hour," he adds.

"To each and every one my question was, 'What are my orders?' At 2110 hours, Northern Command again rang up, the tanks had continued moving ahead and were now less than a km from the top.

"I rang up the RM again at 2125 hours, with the latest and once more asked for clear directions. The situation was tense. Telephone lines were buzzing."

Meanwhile, there had been an exchange of Hot Line messages and the PLA Commander, Maj Gen Liu Lin, suggested that both sides should stop any further move and that the two local commanders should meet at the pass at 0930 hours the next morning.

Naravane says he called up Defence Minister Singh and NSA Ajit Doval at 2200 hours to share this news.

"I had hardly put the phone down when Jo (Northern Army Commander Joshi) rang up once again at 2210 hours.

"He said that the tanks had started moving up again and were now only about 500 metres away," he says.

Naravane says Joshi recommended that the only way to stop the PLA was by opening up with our own medium artillery, which he said was ready and waiting.

"My position was critical...," he says as he explains how the situation was handled.
 

ezsasa

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"Do whatever u deem appropriate" this what RM Rajnath singh told Army Chief Gen MM Nararvane in Aug 31,2020, during India-China stand off.

Modi Govt literally dropped the ball in Army to take a call.

Ps- "Evil eye", "Not an inch"-bravado only for Pak.
a decade ago, some folks were complaining about ministers not giving go ahead to defence forces for tactical ops, now some folks are complaining about ministers giving complete freedom on tactical course of action.

folks are never going to be satisfied no matter what, isn't it?
 
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another_armchair

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a decade ago, some folks were complaining about ministers not giving go ahead to defence forces for tactical ops, now some folks are complaining about ministers giving complete freedom on tactical course of action.

folks are never going to be satisfied no matter what, isn't it?


"They had fired an illuminating round but this had had no effect. I had clear orders not to open fire, 'till cleared from the very top'. A flurry of calls followed, between the RM, EAM, NSA, CDS and myself over the next half-hour," he adds.
Govt. will always use a smokescreen and take credit if things go their way else find a scapegoat and pin the blame on the individual or the organization.

RM, EAM, NSA - Civil administration.

CDS - From the services. If 'they' can have it their way, they will appoint a bureaucrat to man this post too.
 
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ezsasa

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@ezsasa Govt throw the ball in Army's court. Who are complaining abt decade ago ministers not giving tactical operations against China?

Whichever Govt- UPA or NDA, when dealing with china always crawl.
a decade ago, it used to take 7 days for troops to reach PP on foot, not the case since 7-8 years or so.
a decade ago, china was the "blue eyed boy" of the world, the prevailing theory was "make china rich, they will become liberal".
a decade ago, the china question does not arise.
a decade ago, world was a different place.
a decade ago, paki land was occupying our mindspace, now it is china.

my contention here is the premise that no matter what happens, it's always govt's fault. in a electoral democracy, anything and every thing can be put at the feet of the elected govt, that works in political discourse. when analysing strategic and tactical situations, such a binary point of view does disservice to the ground realities. once the "guilty verdict" has been arrived at, there is no scope of lessons to be learned.
 

mokoman

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@ezsasa Govt throw the ball in Army's court. Who are complaining abt decade ago ministers not giving tactical operations against China?

Whichever Govt- UPA or NDA, when dealing with china always crawl.
aug 31 PLA moved their tanks forward , gov gives tactical freedom to army , army takes strategic peaks and ridges - few months later PLA agrees to disengage - goes back.

🤷‍♂️ so whats issue here .
 

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