Indian Army: News and Discussion

[Bhadra]

Hindi poet Dushyant Kumar wrote :

कहाँ तो तय था चिराग़ाँ हर एक घर के लिए
कहाँ चिराग़ मयस्सर नहीं शहर के लिए
यहाँ दरख़तों के साये में धूप लगती है
चलो यहाँ से चलें और उम्र भर के लिए


Look at the sorry state of affairs where OFB has brought the country's defense preparedness to. The mammoth organization of 42 factories, the largest industrial conglomerate of India established by Defence Expending, paid for by the defense budget and having such massive striking freeloaders and booters unionized labour force and administration, charging Army above international rates of products, has to such a sorry pass.

Now Indian Army has been forced into issuing RFI for five varieties of 7.62 Ammunition to be made by Private Sector. " Cry oh my Motherland, for those elite Allied Services IOFS who are presiding over the demise of Indias oldest and largest assets. This is not a failure of workers but the so-called Civil Services of India who preside over MoD as also the Ordinance Factories at all levels...

Army issues tender for 7.62mm ammunition from private sector

RFI also specifies annual requirement of the various types, some of them running into 1-2 million rounds.

www.thehindu.com

 

[another_armchair]

 

[ezsasa]

MoD should try to trace the supplier, this looks more like a rejected batch being sold as surplus.

 

[Coalmine]

That is very good question which I will try and answer.

A civilian employee of GoI including police forces and CAPF are recruted around 22 year of age and retire at above 56 years of age thereby rendering about 35 to 40 years of service. When he retires he has grown up children well settled family and less dependent on him. He has drawn 40 years of pay and salary, perks, allowances and govt protection for that long a period. So earlier he used to draw a pension but now after 2004 entry he draws a pension under NPS which is the cumulation of his and govt contribution sufficient to maintain a standard of life which he enjoyed when in service.

On another hand, an Army jawan or service personnel joins between 18 - 20 years of age and after 15 -17 years of cour service he retires at the age of 32 -36 years of young age, new family, unsettled life, young children and no alternate job, So as a measure of national social and moral responsibility he is paid a pension. His pension is fixed at half the pay last drawn at the completion of say 14 years Service. Compare that the pension of civilians which is faxed at fifty percent of the pay of 40 years of service... triple the difference.

So it is very necessary to pay a pension to the young man or he and his family will die of hunger in this employment world.

They should be recruited into CAPFs. After retirement they should be paid lumpsum and then recruited into CAPFs.

But many retired army personnel go into jobs reserved for ex-servicemen.

 

[ezsasa]

Hindi poet Dushyant Kumar wrote :

कहाँ तो तय था चिराग़ाँ हर एक घर के लिए
कहाँ चिराग़ मयस्सर नहीं शहर के लिए
यहाँ दरख़तों के साये में धूप लगती है
चलो यहाँ से चलें और उम्र भर के लिए


Look at the sorry state of affairs where OFB has brought the country's defense preparedness to. The mammoth organization of 42 factories, the largest industrial conglomerate of India established by Defence Expending, paid for by the defense budget and having such massive striking freeloaders and booters unionized labour force and administration, charging Army above international rates of products, has to such a sorry pass.

Now Indian Army has been forced into issuing RFI for five varieties of 7.62 Ammunition to be made by Private Sector. " Cry oh my Motherland, for those elite Allied Services IOFS who are presiding over the demise of Indias oldest and largest assets. This is not a failure of workers but the so-called Civil Services of India who preside over MoD as also the Ordinance Factories at all levels...

Army issues tender for 7.62mm ammunition from private sector

RFI also specifies annual requirement of the various types, some of them running into 1-2 million rounds.

www.thehindu.com

where is this RFI that IA has supposedly released?
may be we should wait till tomorrow.

 

[WolfPack86]

Army issues tender for 7.62mm ammunition from private sector
In a move to take forward the long-delayed process of opening up ammunition manufacture to the private sector, the Army has issued a Request for Information (RFI) for procurement of five different types of 7.62mm caliber ammunition to meet the annual requirement for the next 10 years. The RFI was issued by the Army’s Master General of Ordnance and gets particular focus following the 101 negative import list announced by the Defence Ministry that includes a range of ammunition. “Various 7.62mm ammunitions as mention will have to meet all specifications of in-service ammunitions. All available specifications with Director general Quality Assurance (DGQA) and drawings, where available, with DGQA are proposed to be provided for manufacturers to confirm to, in providing required ammunition,” the RFI issued in August first week says. The technology partners could be indigenous or any foreign vendor. The five types notified include ammunition for Dragunov sniper rifle and Galil sniper rifle. The RFI also specified the annual requirement of the various types, some of them running into 1-2 million rounds. The Ordnance factory Board has so far been the manufacturer and supplier of ammunition and efforts to open it to the private sector over the last few years had been delayed. “With the negative import list, the effort should get high priority for the Army to diversify its ammunition procurement,” an industry source said on condition of anonymity. The last date to respond to the RFI is September 30. The selected manufacturer is expected to commence supply within six months of signing the contract and initial supply may be through Semi Knocked Down (SKD), Completely Knocked Down (CKD) ammunition procured from the Transfer of Technology (ToT) partner. “The subsequent supply of ammunition will be manufactured in India,” the RFI states. It also proposes that the manufacturer develop the infrastructure and absorb the complete ToT for manufacture of ammunition within two years from signing of contract. It proposes that the manufacturer will ensure continuous availability of minimum one year’s stock components during first two years after signing of contract or 100% indigenisation, whichever is earlier, the RFI said. In case full indigenisation is either not possible or not proposed, from third year the manufacturer fwill have to hold two year’s stock.

Army issues tender for 7.62mm ammunition from private sector – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[WolfPack86]

Army issues tender for 7.62mm ammunition from private sector
In a move to take forward the long-delayed process of opening up ammunition manufacture to the private sector, the Army has issued a Request for Information (RFI) for procurement of five different types of 7.62mm caliber ammunition to meet the annual requirement for the next 10 years.

The RFI was issued by the Army’s Master General of Ordnance and gets particular focus following the 101 negative import list announced by the Defence Ministry that includes a range of ammunition.

“Various 7.62mm ammunitions as mention will have to meet all specifications of in-service ammunitions. All available specifications with Director general Quality Assurance (DGQA) and drawings, where available, with DGQA are proposed to be provided for manufacturers to confirm to, in providing required ammunition,” the RFI issued in August first week says. The technology partners could be indigenous or any foreign vendor.


The five types notified include ammunition for Dragunov sniper rifle and Galil sniper rifle. The RFI also specified the annual requirement of the various types, some of them running into 1-2 million rounds.

The Ordnance factory Board has so far been the manufacturer and supplier of ammunition and efforts to open it to the private sector over the last few years had been delayed. “With the negative import list, the effort should get high priority for the Army to diversify its ammunition procurement,” an industry source said on condition of anonymity.

The last date to respond to the RFI is September 30. The selected manufacturer is expected to commence supply within six months of signing the contract and initial supply may be through Semi Knocked Down (SKD), Completely Knocked Down (CKD) ammunition procured from the Transfer of Technology (ToT) partner. “The subsequent supply of ammunition will be manufactured in India,” the RFI states.

It also proposes that the manufacturer develop the infrastructure and absorb the complete ToT for manufacture of ammunition within two years from signing of contract. It proposes that the manufacturer will ensure continuous availability of minimum one year’s stock components during first two years after signing of contract or 100% indigenisation, whichever is earlier, the RFI said. In case full indigenisation is either not possible or not proposed, from third year the manufacturer fwill have to hold two year’s stock.

Defencenews.in

 

[Bhadra]

They should be recruited into CAPFs. After retirement they should be paid lumpsum and then recruited into CAPFs.

But many retired army personnel go into jobs reserved for ex-servicemen.

That is the only good and workable idea. All those who are recruited in CAPF should serve in the Army for 5- 10 years and then come to CAPF.

Reservation for Ex-Servicemen is very few and that too in class IV and claa II posts, in a govt job market that is virtually dry. Moreover, his pay is fixed at last pay drawn minus his pension and no DA on pension and he does not earn any pension in his new job, Facilities of ex-Servicemen are also curtailed for him. So the guy stands disadvantaged from all angles.

This country has no tradition to honour military Service. The situation is actually is that a soldier is disadvantaged from all spheres of life.

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian army special forces new tools.

 

[Bhadra]

This is so shameful... OFB needs to put their heads in the sand...

 

[Haldilal]

@Bhadra I want to ask about your opinion on the MilBus in India. Its is just a thought in a hypothetical situation but what you think about it?

 

[rkhanna]

@Bhadra I want to ask about your opinion on the MilBus in India. Its is just a thought in a hypothetical situation but what you think about it?

The military has no business interests in India. Even the monitization of real estate eventually goes to the exchequer.

 

[Haldilal]

The military has no business interests in India. Even the monitization of real estate eventually goes to the exchequer.

I meant in a hypothetical situation if we had a MilBus then we could be able to support the military more.

 

[rkhanna]

I meant in a hypothetical situation if we had a MilBus then we could be able to support the military more.

Well absolutely big NO. We need a Mil industrial complex where civilian and mil tech and marketplaces cross pollinate. The military has to has to be subservant to the civilian population/leadership.

The countries where the Military is in Business itself are predominantly pakistan, Iran and north korea. The consequences speak for themselves.

 

[spikey360]

I meant in a hypothetical situation if we had a MilBus then we could be able to support the military more.

And risk businessmen becoming Generals? (Not the other way round, that is never going to happen)

 

[rkhanna]

Civilians - businessmen or otherwise have lead the armed forces since Inception. Worse is when generals become politicians or businessman.

 

[WolfPack86]

India hopes for early operationalisation of IGA with Russia to manufacture defence spare parts
India has expressed hope that the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) with Russia to manufacture spare parts of defence equipment here will be operationalised soon. “Despite the complexities of the Coronavirus pandemic, India felt it was very important for us to come and participate in ARMY-2020. We would have liked to have participated with a much bigger delegation,” Indian ambassador to Russia DB Venkatesh Varma told Russian magazine ‘New Defence Order Strategy’. He pointed out that India would have liked its participation to be bigger at the exhibition, but at least there is some participation and this is of great significance considering the global situation. The Indian Delegation at ARMY-2020 is headed by Raj Kumar, the Secretary of Defence The forum, organised by the Russian Defence Ministry, is being held from August 23-29. Besides the exhibition the forum is also hosting discussions among global military officials, researchers and defence industry experts about the application of 3D technologies in designing, manufacturing and operating weapons and military equipment, The Indian Secretary of Defence Production held meetings with the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), Rosoboronexport and the Russian deputy minister for Industry and Trade Oleg Ryazansev. The Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov and the CEO of Rostec Sergey Chemezov Visited India’s pavilion on the first day of the Forum. “A number of issues were discussed. We were very happy to see the positive support that Russia has extended to India’s “Make In India” programme. We have signed an intergovernmental agreement on the manufacturing of spare parts of Russian equipment supplied to India, now these spare parts will be manufactured in India. Now a number of original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) on both sides are in touch with each other; this is a big step forward,” Varma pointed out. India and Russia had signed IGA last year at the annual summit held in Vladivostok for manufacturing of spare parts of Russian defence equipment supplied to India. With regard to US reservations on S-400 systems that Russia will supply to India, Varma said, “India has a strategic partnership with Russia that has been longstanding. Recently we have established relationship of strategic partnership with the United States. We do not see any contradiction between the two. India would like to promote relations with both Russia and the United States. With respect to defence cooperation, India is an independent country, we make decisions on each case based on its own merits, and I’m sure that both Russia and the United States respect the fact that India makes such decisions in its own interest.”

India hopes for early operationalisation of IGA with Russia to manufacture defence spare parts – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Bhadra]

@Bhadra I want to ask about your opinion on the MilBus in India. Its is just a thought in a hypothetical situation but what you think about it?

Indian Army is a very huge organization and there is a huge potential for the military indulging in some of the internal business activities to its own and national benefits.

The first and foremost field is that id Finance. The Army has resources and potential to run its own Bank and a Financial institute. It is unfortunate but true that the GoI does not provide any Insurance facility to the soldiers and officers of the nation. An insurance cover of Rs 200000 and Rs 100000 ( figures could be more) is provided by the Army themselves through an Army-run contributory Insurance organization called AGIF.

Armed Forces also manage their own Provident Fund business. The thousand of CSDs, cantonment shopping centers, Regiment Funds of thousands of units, Cash and Banking facilities near Defense Forces locations, ATMs, Forces run schools and Colleges, all provide an ample opportunity for a bank to be owned and run by the Army. I assure you it will one of the largest and profitable banks in the country.
Logistics is another field that can be handled by Ex-Servicemen organizations throughout the country through provisioning the Trucks by ex-servicemen. The MoD spends crores of budget on ECHs to cater to health facilities for Ex-Servicemen. The army is quite capable of running more than 100 super-specialty hospitals as a business activity to cater to the needs of Ex-Servicemen health care requirements.

There is no dearth of business activities that can be undertaken by the Armed Forces exclusively for themselves without affecting their operational responsibilities and preparedness in any manner. Or without affecting the business interests of GoI.

The list is very long. Some General is required to put his foot down and someday and ask the MoD authorities why they are playing with service personnel's private money? Why they have favorite appointed hospitals, banks, and financial institutions making huge profits from the Armed Forces without giving back anything in return?

 

[Bhadra]

World-class gear for 30K additional troops at LAC
​

With additional troops to be positioned along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Ladakh during winter, the Army is procuring world-class snow boots, gloves, layered jackets, trousers and sleeping bags.

New sleeping habitat like arctic tents and special high-nutrient diet are to be provided.

It is the first time that so many troops will be stationed during winter in eastern Ladakh along the 826-km LAC. Under normal circumstances, troop levels are no more than two brigades (around 10,000). Heated habitat with bunker-type beds already exists to house these many troops.

This year, the challenge will be the additional 30,000 troops who along with equipment have been stationed since May this year to ward off any misadventure by China.

Clothing and boots will be in multiple pairs as they tend to get wet in the snow. Just the clothing and gear to tackle the cold — night time temperatures are expected to be minus 30°C in peak winter —would cost more than Rs 1 lakh for each soldier, sources said.


Normally, patrolling is curtailed in winter. But this time, it is expected to be different as the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is stationed just across the LAC.

The winter will set in in the first week of September when night temperatures dip below the freezing point. The entire area is above 14,000 feet and some of the mountain passes to be guarded are in excess of 17,000 feet.

The other task is to feed the troops as low oxygen availability in tree-less eastern Ladakh, coupled with extreme cold, low humidity and intense solar radiation, throws up a challenge. The calorie intake has been calculated as the per Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences study. The energy requirements in high altitude (over 12,000 feet) vary between 4,270 and 4,550 calories per day per person.

Then there is a requirement of nutrients as the low availability of oxygen in tree-less eastern Ladakh coupled with extreme cold, low humidity and intense solar radiation throw up a challenge. Physical activity like patrolling and the weight of cold protective clothing coupled with a loss of appetite leads can lead to weight loss and decreased performance.

The ration list allows the battalion commander to get what his troops may like to eat as culinary tastes vary across India. Troops operating in high altitude area suffer from anorexia, says the DIPAS study. There will be an increased supply of fresh vegetables, fruits and even chocolates, energy bars etc and which will be supplied by air from Chandigarh, the logistics base for Ladakh.

World-class gear for 30K additional troops at LAC

Ajay BanerjeeTribune News ServiceNew Delhi, August 25

www.tribuneindia.com

 

[Bhadra]

With reference to the above post, It is an irony and reflection on what is wrong with Indian's oldest and largest MIC called OFV and DRDO.

One may easily ask how. But then ask himself - where is it in the world that the Armed Forces are required to defend the longest high altitude, ice-laden mountainous boundary in the world? Where is that the largest amount of troops going up to 150000 troops are stationed in cold, icy high altitude areas constantly even during peacetime? Not only the Army and airforce but about 30 battalions of ITBP remain in such areas. So no one says say that this country is someone else than India.

India has had its share of a shameful tragedy of 1962, of a situation when India could not provide any winter and high altitude equipment to its soldiers. After that we tried to taclke the situation by specially creating Ordnance Factories that are solely meant for manufacturing winter and high altitude clothing and equipment. But down the line, after sixty years of the blot of 1962 on national memory we are faced with a shortage of ECCand I equipment and are importing those?

Well it is so simple. If about 12 to 14 Divisions of the Indian Army was tasked operationally for HAA, then where is their ECCI? Were the COAS, the QMG, DGOL, Sey Def Prdoduction, Def Secy and the RM of India were sleeping over these years ?

IF OFB was not capable of making up the demand, were any alternate ways explored to make up for the deficiency? Why was DG OFB not sacked and why the Secy Def Production sent home to sleep? What has MoD, Parliamentary Committees, the CAG not shouted from roof top of this criminal negligencies?

The CAG raised the issue of inadequacy of the ECCI in 2016 report and the Army authorities remained busy denying those allegations. Then why there is an emergent need to imp[ort and procure ECCI for 30.000 troops.

Does it mean Army has a stock of ECCI for those remaining 120000 troops that will be operating in HAA? What about Command and Army HQ reserves of ECCI ?

There is something a miss here?

How many projects were given to DRDO for the improvement of ECCI and make those world-class? How much money was spend by OFB in carrying our research and improvement in ECCI? How many OFB babus and engineers of OF Kanpur have remained in HAA wearing ECCI made by them to carry out experiments? - None .. would be the answer.

DRDO is not the missile Institute but must look at the defence technologies in its entirety. Or disband its 38000 workforces.