Indian Army: News and Discussion

[Bhadra]

Neither people in ALP nor in Assam does this even in flood. Kabhi aao toh jaano.

Arunachal does have the highest number of drop zones for Army and paramilitary in India.

You are simply in trolling mood.
What has dropping Zones got to do with River crossings ? What has river crossings to do with floods in Assam ?River crossings, that too long back. Now most of the bridges must have come up.
All major DZs are north of Brahmaputra.Where is river crossings there??

 

[samsaptaka]

Time for OFB to be either shut down or privatized. If labour unions protest, then they must be made to shoot the faulty ammunition and have the gun blow up on their faces. Thats the only way these sadak chap babus will understand anything about accountability. Blood boils.

 

[Holy Triad]

Indian Army plans certain changes in its uniforms
The suggestions include shifting the position of the cloth rank epaulettes that identifies the regiment and rank of of a soldier.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...nges-in-its-uniforms/articleshow/69318083.cms

 

[Bhadra]

Sir you are just giving the army view. If you read the article, OFB has blamed army for the accidents. If this continues both army and OFB will continue fighting. MOD should step in and play referee. It is why they are for.

Accidents may occur anywhere - in OFB storage, during transportation, during storage and / or during firing.

Wherever it occurs, it has to be investigated in a particular fashion by specific agency representatives like ASTEC Committee. ammunition specialists of Army, OFB etc. If it is the fault of Army / storage then it is pointed out.

Most of the time these accidents happen with OFB produced ammunition. The imported ammunition is also stored under similar conditions by Army. Why then there is no accidents for that ammunition.

Out of so many ammunition varieties manufactured by OFB why accidents only in 40mm or 105mm or tank ammunition?

It has to be manufacturing defects !!

 

[Chinmoy]

You are simply in trolling mood.
What has dropping Zones got to do with River crossings ? What has river crossings to do with floods in Assam ?River crossings, that too long back. Now most of the bridges must have come up.
All major DZs are north of Brahmaputra.Where is river crossings there??

And you are just in denial mode.

Talking of something which is non existent and stupid at its best.

I think they should listen to your wisdom and employ Tuskers instead of boats.

 

[Bhadra]

And you are just in denial mode.

Talking of something which is non existent and stupid at its best.

View attachment 34960
I think they should listen to your wisdom and employ Tuskers instead of boats.

Stupid man, can'ot you even read the caption below the picture, it says "Flood Relief". You are talking of everything on earth except "River Crossing" by soldiers on elephants at designated ghats. Have you seen boats in mountain rivers and streams except for adventurous river rafting ?

Why can'ot you stop this stupidity? .

 

[Bhadra]

Time for OFB to be either shut down or privatized. If labour unions protest, then they must be made to shoot the faulty ammunition and have the gun blow up on their faces. Thats the only way these sadak chap babus will understand anything about accountability. Blood boils.

Indian Army has issued some RFP for procurement of some varies of ammunition . These are :

 

[Bhadra]

...................................................
http://ficci.in/spdocument/22963/AMMO-INDIA-REPORT2018.pdf

 

[ezsasa]

Indian Army has issued some RFP for procurement of some varies of ammunition . These are :

View attachment 34968​

RFP was indeed issued, but what happened to it after is status unknown.

 

[Bhadra]

RFP was indeed issued, but what happened to it after is status unknown.

http://ficci.in/spdocument/22963/AMMO-INDIA-REPORT2018.pdf

Current Status One of the largest procurement initiatives in Arms and Ammunition was launched by the MoD last year when they released eight RFPs (Appendix 1) for procurement of medium and large calibre ammunition from the Indian private industry on 25th March 2017. The requirement for ammunition ranges from 23mm HEI/APIT for the ZU/ Strella air defence gun systems to 125mm FSAPDS for the T90/T72 tanks. After the initial release of the RFPs the MoD decided to release a corrigendum as early as 1st June 2017. Since then there have been nine amendments to the submission date for extension of time.

 

[ezsasa]

http://ficci.in/spdocument/22963/AMMO-INDIA-REPORT2018.pdf

Current Status One of the largest procurement initiatives in Arms and Ammunition was launched by the MoD last year when they released eight RFPs (Appendix 1) for procurement of medium and large calibre ammunition from the Indian private industry on 25th March 2017. The requirement for ammunition ranges from 23mm HEI/APIT for the ZU/ Strella air defence gun systems to 125mm FSAPDS for the T90/T72 tanks. After the initial release of the RFPs the MoD decided to release a corrigendum as early as 1st June 2017. Since then there have been nine amendments to the submission date for extension of time.

Yup, I know this part. I had posted this Ficci report when it was issued.

I am saying status of the RFP after that is unknown. Those 4 or 5 RFP were unique because it talked about creation of required manufacturing facilities from private sector.

 

[Bhadra]

Yup, I know this part. I had posted this Ficci report when it was issued.

I am saying status of the RFP after that is unknown. Those 4 or 5 RFP were unique because it talked about creation of required manufacturing facilities from private sector.

yes, if DRDO and OFV have not been able to make APFSDS for donkies years, which private Industry in India will respond to such RFP.
ECI and BEL have been dabbling with South African Electronic fuzes. The have neither taken ToT nor able to supply the fuzes.
I do not know which private industry is going to make it in the time frame of RFP.

Except for two explosive manufacturing big players, there is no adequate ammunition ecosystem in the private sector.

 

[Craigs]

How is this related to imports? Army doesn't import their ammunition. Do you even understand what are you writing?

Army has imported whenever a shortage of ammo has been declared. Anyway if local ammo is declared defective then where are you going to get ammo from? Every time there is a crisis on the border there are news reports of emergency imports of ammo. It is only now 'kickstarting' a project to let Indian Industry manufacture the ammo in house (hopefully there will be less kicking and more starting).

The army will source the ammunition from 11 privately-run co ..

Read more at:
https://www.businessinsider.in/the-...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

.

By conservative estimates it will take a long (at least ten years) for all the ammo we need to be manufactured in house. But this being India allah-malik.

 

[Bhadra]

Army has imported whenever a shortage of ammo has been declared. Anyway if local ammo is declared defective then where are you going to get ammo from? Every time there is a crisis on the border there are news reports of emergency imports of ammo. It is only now 'kickstarting' a project to let Indian Industry manufacture the ammo in house (hopefully there will be less kicking and more starting).

.

By conservative estimates it will take a long (at least ten years) for all the ammo we need to be manufactured in house. But this being India allah-malik.

What ever the case, those are long term plans.

Wars on borders or requirement of application of military force does not arise after giving a notice. That means that minimum scale levels must be held under all conditions. I think this happens to be10 days intense and 20 days normal rate besides first and second line.

It is the MoD which buys the ammunition and not Indian Army which only indents on MoD or OFB. Sometimes I feel the shortage is deliberately created so that MoD / OFB purchases ammunition by emergency clauses and make more bucks by skirting checks and balances.. If OFB does not supply as per five year roll on plan their Babus need to be taken to task.

Army can only be made partner in ammunition supply chain if management of factories producing ammunition is handed over to them. Or it is bankum.

 

[Craigs]

What ever the case, those are long term plans.

Wars on borders or requirement of application of military force does not arise after giving a notice. That means that minimum scale levels must be held under all conditions. I think this happens to be10 days intense and 20 days normal rate besides first and second line.

It is the MoD which buys the ammunition and not Indian Army which only indents on MoD or OFB. Sometimes I feel the shortage is deliberately created so that MoD / OFB purchases ammunition by emergency clauses and make more bucks by skirting checks and balances.. If OFB does not supply as per five year roll on plan their Babus need to be taken to task.

Army can only be made partner in ammunition supply chain if management of factories producing ammunition is handed over to them. Or it is bankum.

If you ask MOD/OFB they will pass the buck to the army and vice versa. Malai tho sab kaate hain, tax payer ke gaa*d me bamboo.

 

[Bhadra]

If you ask MOD/OFB they will pass the buck to the army and vice versa. Malai tho sab kaate hain, tax payer ke gaa*d me bamboo.

http://ficci.in/spdocument/22963/AMMO-INDIA-REPORT2018.pdf

The management of ammunition is done by placing ve year Roll on Indent on Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to enable it to plan its production. The indent is placed on mutually agreed targets keeping the OFB capacity in view. (a) The rst ve year Roll on Indent for 2010 to 2014 was placed on OFB in February 2010 for ` 24,311 crore for 113 ammunition items. OFB produced ammunition worth crore. (b) The second Roll on Indent was placed on OFB ` 18,314 in October 2013 for projected requirement of ve year perspective plan for year 2014 to 2019. Production reports of OFB are being monitored on a monthly basis.


⁵ The remaining ammunition which is not being manufactured by OFB, the Army imports through capital and revenue route. On the other hand, imports too have failed to ll the supply gap as procurement has proven to be unreasonably slow. No procurement of ammunition took place against the nine items initiated for procurement through capital route during the period 2008-2013 due to single vendor situation, complexities in TOT, delay in nalization of GSQR, etc. In case of revenue procurements also, the success rate of fructication of contracts was as low as 20 percent.⁶ Thus, due to delay in finalization of import contracts, the built-up of ammunition has been badly hampered.

 

[Craigs]

http://ficci.in/spdocument/22963/AMMO-INDIA-REPORT2018.pdf

The management of ammunition is done by placing ve year Roll on Indent on Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to enable it to plan its production. The indent is placed on mutually agreed targets keeping the OFB capacity in view. (a) The rst ve year Roll on Indent for 2010 to 2014 was placed on OFB in February 2010 for ` 24,311 crore for 113 ammunition items. OFB produced ammunition worth crore. (b) The second Roll on Indent was placed on OFB ` 18,314 in October 2013 for projected requirement of ve year perspective plan for year 2014 to 2019. Production reports of OFB are being monitored on a monthly basis.


⁵ The remaining ammunition which is not being manufactured by OFB, the Army imports through capital and revenue route. On the other hand, imports too have failed to ll the supply gap as procurement has proven to be unreasonably slow. No procurement of ammunition took place against the nine items initiated for procurement through capital route during the period 2008-2013 due to single vendor situation, complexities in TOT, delay in nalization of GSQR, etc. In case of revenue procurements also, the success rate of fructication of contracts was as low as 20 percent.⁶ Thus, due to delay in finalization of import contracts, the built-up of ammunition has been badly hampered.

Credit: BRF (https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6651&start=3680) - I don't have the original so take it FWIW.

In this day and age no bureaucrat is going to override an army inspection team that rejects ammo based on quality. Fact is who will verify army claims; that is why I say this is classic ping pong b/w army and MOD/OFB to favor imports.

These days economy is also doing good and the forex reserves are at all time high and hence even less possibility of any import indent being denied.

 

[Bhadra]

Credit: BRF (https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6651&start=3680) - I don't have the original so take it FWIW.

In this day and age no bureaucrat is going to override an army inspection team that rejects ammo based on quality. Fact is who will verify army claims; that is why I say this is classic ping pong b/w army and MOD/OFB to favor imports.

These days economy is also doing good and the forex reserves are at all time high and hence even less possibility of any import indent being denied.

Those are stories. I too have many real varifiable and well known stories to tell.
The case in point is the percussion Fuzes of Mortar and artillery ammunition which used to go off dimes a day during Op Parakram. OFB blamed Army for inadequate storage facilities. Ultimately, they said the fuzes were suffering from Copper Azide phenomenon which initiated fuzes automatically. I had carried out Investigation into one of the largest accidents that occurred at Birdwal.

We all knew how there were no fuzes for anti tank mines for over ten crucial years. OFB simply washed their hands off.

The question is -
Why only Indian ammunition goes bad and not imported ammunition when storage facility is same for both.
Storage of Ammunition in Field is not specific to Indian Army but world over. Why the blame is shifted to field conditions ? There are regulations for that as laid down by the UNO and ASTEC committees.

Thirdly, if storage facilities are bad, it is for MoD to provide funding for making storage infrastructure, Everyone is supposed to know the conditions of forward ammunition depots of the Army.

Finally, why there are accidents only in certain categories only and not in all.

A shell of 155 mm howitzer bursting inside M777 barrel during trial was not engineered by Indian Army. It is shame that the US refused to use Indian ammunition any further.

 

[12arya]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-to-pakistan-border/printarticle/69323432.cms

Post-Balakot strikes, Indian Army to move air defence units closer to Pakistan border

"Some of the fighting formations including air defence and other defensive formations are now planned to be moved closer to the borders," top Army sources told ANI.

 

[12arya]

https://www.financialexpress.com/de...out-masters-competition-in-jaisalmer/1577017/

War Games: India to host for the first time Army Scout Masters Competition in Jaisalmer

The Army Scout Masters Competition is conducted under the established format of competition amongst Scouts and offers unique challenges and opportunities keeping in mind the spirit of adventure, courage, comradeship and the true spirit of the Army Games.

War Games: India to host for the first time Army Scout Masters Competition in Jaisalmer
Designed to promote cooperation, collaboration, and team spirit among the contestants and facilitate sharing of best practices, technology and hardware, the 5th edition of “Army Scout Masters Competition” is scheduled to be held in Jaisalmer City later this year. This is the first time that India is the venue for the Army Scouts Masters Competition, which is part of International Army Games steered by Russia.

Scheduled for the end of July to mid-August is going to be in five stages which will test the marksmanship, navigation skills, endurance and teamwork amongst the teams under an international panel of judges, experts and arbiters. These will be held by day and at night, where twenty-seven representatives from countries besides India, Russia, China, Uzbekistan, Armenia, Sudan, Kazakhstan, Zimbabwe, and Belarus will be participating.

The Army Scout Masters Competition is conducted under the established format of competition amongst Scouts and offers unique challenges and opportunities keeping in mind the spirit of adventure, courage, comradeship and the true spirit of the Army Games.

The main aim of this completion is to enhance international military to military and technical co-operation between the States participating in the Scout Masters Competition.

According to a senior army officer, a scout must be flexible, able to adapt to any climatic conditions and be ready to perform in different terrains including desert areas. So far the International scout competitions have been taking place for four consecutive years at the Koltsovo training ground in Novosibirsk Region.

What is the International Army Games?

Since 2015, Russia has been holding International Army Games which involves around 30 countries who battle out in dozens of competitions spread over two weeks to prove which has the best military in the world. Countries send in their troops in the sports version of warfare on land, air, and sea.

Spread over a fortnight which includes tank biathlon and fighter planes maneuvering contest. From the time the games started, India has been participating in the Army Games. In July 2018, the Indian Army had participated in two competitions in the International Army games in Russia. These were in the Tank Biathlon and Elbrus Ring — which is mountain warfare combat patrol competition.