Indian Army MRSAM

[plugwater]

weren't there reports of a longer range Akash 2??

Akash 2 has only 35km range.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Akash 2 has only 35km range.

They reported it earlier to be 50-60km. A waste to spend so much money only to increase the range 10-15km.

 

[plugwater]

They reported it earlier to be 50-60km. A waste to spend so much money only to increase the range 10-15km.

Completely agree and they scheduled to test it in 2013, why take so long to increase by only 10 kms !!

Initial reports were like that but livefist confirmed it is only 35km.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Maybe some of the SPYDER units acquired earlier can also be converted to an MR-SAM role??

 

[plugwater]

Maybe some of the SPYDER units acquired earlier can also be converted to an MR-SAM role??

Not possible. It has a range of 15km, it is for high value assets and for quick reactions.

It is for the first layer of our proposed layered air defence. Akash is the second layer, Barak is third and after that comes our AAD and PAD.

 

[agentperry]

Not possible. It has a range of 15km, it is for high value assets and for quick reactions.

It is for the first layer of our proposed layered air defence. Akash is the second layer, Barak is third and after that comes our AAD and PAD.

but for that maitri is in final developmental stages.
its a quick reaction lowlevel short range surface to air missile.

multiplicity of inventory will be a big disaster in case of adversary

 

[agentperry]

They reported it earlier to be 50-60km. A waste to spend so much money only to increase the range 10-15km.

if you remember the chromium layer developed by the drdo team which claim to reduce friction by 45% and range increase by atleast 40%. then the plan to increase the range by 10 km that is exactly 40% of 25 km seems not that expensive.
briefing the ongoing development of akash mk 2 drdo had said that they are looking forward to induct new electronics into it. and the success in seeker technology by rci shows some good contribution to this system.

a new akash may liberate more pechora from services.

its good to invest in akash and make its kill probability increase from current 88% to something like 99%.

that will be a good shot.

 

[plugwater]

Maitri's development has not even started yet.

Spyder decision was taken long before Maitri JV.

 

[agentperry]

Ex-IAF officer played key role - India - DNA

Ex-IAF officer played key role.

Who were the main actors pushing for the controversial Rs10,000 crore medium-range surface-to-air (MRSAM) contract with the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)?

The deal, signed on February 27, just days before the general election was announced, had an unheard of clause for paying Rs600 crore (6% of the contract value) as "business charges".

While Israel's Elul Group is already under scrutiny, serious questions are also being raised about a retired Indian Air Force (IAF) officer who played a crucial role in formally proposing purchase of MRSAMs from Israel.

This officer was also responsible for scuttling the large-scale induction of the indigenous surface-to-air missile Akash.

Over the past few days, DNA's investigation has raisedquestions about the controversial deal with IAI, which is already being probed by the Central Bureau of Investigation in connection with the Barak missile deal of 2000. The MRSAM deal was signed despite initial vigilance objections, neutral legal opinions, and the success of the indigenous Advanced Air Defence missile of similar capability.

DNA's investigation found that the IAF officer, who retired about two years ago, is now working for the Israeli arms industry in New Delhi.

Without naming the officer, Defence Research & Development Organisation chief M Natarajan told a press conference in Bangalore during the Aero India show last month that the officer had slashed his predecessor's commitment to induct eight squadrons of Akash missiles. The officer had brought the figure down to just two squadrons. Akash has a range of 27km, while MRSAM has a range of about 70km.

A source in the defence ministry confirmed that even for the induction of these two Akash squadrons, the IAF put a condition that the DRDO must first agree to the MRSAM project. "We were blackmailed into the MRSAM project," said the source.

"He [the former IAF officer] killed Akash, blackmailed us to agree to MRSAM, and is now working for them [Israeli arms companies] openly."

"Yes, we are aware (that the officer is working for Israelis)," said a senior defence ministry official, who had defended the government for going ahead with the MRSAM deal.

The official said the ministry has not yet sought clarification from the officer because he retired "two years ago". But "he has very limited access in the defence ministry and air headquarters," the official claimed.

The retired officer had held such a crucial position in the IAF that it is surprising why the government has closed its eyes to his alliance with foreign arms firms after retirement.
The role of another IAF officer is also coming under scrutiny in this matter. He is associated with Nova Integrated Systems, the Tata-IAI joint venture which will be integrating the MRSAM.

Several officials in the defence ministry are baffled how a private-sector firm has been nominated as the integrator for the sensitive missile system. In India, all missile systems are integrated in public-sector units, usually Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL).

In fact, DRDO suggested BDL as the integrator for the MRSAM, with Israelis supplying the seeker and some radar components and DRDO making the airframe, servos, and propulsion. But Nova will be doing the integration now.

This is yet another decision that has raised eyebrows. Sources in the defence establishment believe it is a perfect example of how the Israelis were able to get through whatever they wanted.

equation one: he opposed akash induction and bought down the number to 2 squadron instead of 8 planned then.
equation two: this officer retired two years back
equation three: air force ordered more no of akash squadron taking the order to 8 in 2010 and 2011.

equation one two and three--> this guy retired and air force went along with its plan to induct akash for mrsam. this deal is legacy of that officer and is now delayed as much as possible by air force. how? the navy prototype is ready for testing while this thing which was agreed to be developed on the same time is still somewhere undergoing a brownian motion.

 

[agentperry]

Maitri's development has not even started yet.

Spyder decision was taken long before Maitri JV.

france offered maitri for the air force tender. this is news of few weeks back

 

[plugwater]

france offered maitri for the air force tender. this is news of few weeks back

I am talking about Maitri SR SAM, JV between DRDO and MBDA.

You are talking about Mistral if i am not wrong.

 

[agentperry]

^ may be but i read in newspaper that france is willing to field jointly developed missile system in air force tender

 

[Payeng]

Not possible. It has a range of 15km, it is for high value assets and for quick reactions.

It is for the first layer of our proposed layered air defence. Akash is the second layer, Barak is third and after that comes our AAD and PAD.

I read a few of the released article and was not much impressed with the editorial work, that is post #3 all of the three mentioned missile defense system as quoted works differently, as I have mentioned in some other thread, the Active radar seeker technology is I believe is the core issue for what DRDO have to go for a join venture with Israel, Akash do not employee an on board guidance system but are ground controlled, while Barak 8 will be assisted by the Active radar seeker, AAD is a totally different class of missile while is launched to impact a ballistic projectile as calculated by the ground based radars, Even if we have a 70-100 km range Akash SAM it won't be identical to Barak 8 in its terminal guidance, Akash cannot be termed as a Fire and forget missile while Barak 8 maybe termed so during the terminal phase, the plus point is the base radar could be switched of to defend itself against Anti radiation missiles, Active radar seeker do not seems like a mind blowing offering from the Israelis when the could have offered a dual guidance radar/heat seeker with their expertise in counter-counter measures solutions making it a worthy world class product, lets hope such an offering would be introduced later on.

 

[plugwater]

^ may be but i read in newspaper that france is willing to field jointly developed missile system in air force tender

Which jointly developed missile ? So far no missile exists although there are plans to develop SR SAM.

 

[Payeng]

Inducting radar guidance missiles when PRC is planning for Stealth type of Aircrafts:shocked: , We need dual guidance solution.

 

[Payeng]

Which jointly developed missile ? So far no missile exists although there are plans to develop SR SAM.

I think due to the uncertainty of Matri Project, Barak (not 8 ) and Spyder had been chosen as interim solutions

 

[plugwater]

I think due to the uncertainty of Matri Project, Barak (not 8 ) and Spyder had been chosen as interim solutions

Its spyder. Barak does not have a land version.

 

[Galaxy]

SpyDer induction is in already process (By next year, All 18 units will be inducted). We might order more (Due to delay in Akash). Akash and SpyDer both will work as SR SAM. (20-40 Km) for IAF. Akash for IA too but after 2014-2015 only.

Maitri or 15 KM SRSAM acquisition/JV is mainly for IA.

This news is all about Barak-8 (Navy 70Km and IAF/IA 70-100Km) which will be inducted between 2014-2018.

 

[Galaxy]

Its spyder. Barak does not have a land version.

Barak Land version do exist (MR/LR SAM). Land version of Barak already finalised few years back. By 2015 onwards, It will be inducted after navy version in 2013-2014 (Kolkatta class destroyer).

SpyDer (SR SAM) is in inducted phase and all 18 units will be inducted by Mid/end of 2012.

SpyDer and Barak are 2 different system with different range too.

 

[plugwater]

SpyDer induction is in already process (By next year, All 18 units will be inducted). We might order more (Due to delay in Akash). Akash and SpyDer both will work as SR SAM. (20-40 Km) for IAF. Akash for IA too but after 2014-2015 only.

Maitri or 15 KM SRSAM acquisition/JV is mainly for IA.

This news is all about Barak-8 (Navy 70Km and IAF/IA 70-100Km) which will be inducted between 2014-2018.

Spyder range is 15 km, we have not gotten a single unit so far.

One thing is not clear, SR missiles come under IA and LR come under IAF, i dont know why IA needs Barak ER.