Indian Army MRSAM

[death.by.chocolate]

I was not asking for this, Its not even close..

A static hit on a silk worm is that where you're going with this? Good luck to you

 

[Armand2REP]

p -800 and Brahmos are twins sharing all components except seeker and software
but i have faith in IAI and elta to spot and destroy p -800
after all this is our enemy's best anti ship missile ( Syria and china respectably )

Barak couldn't even shoot down obsolete Chinese junk gone to Hezzies. How you going to shoot down latest supersonic missiles from Russia?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Barak couldn't even shoot down obsolete Chinese junk gone to Hezzies. How you going to shoot down latest supersonic missiles from Russia?

@Armand,

Do you have to shoot everyone ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Actually Kunal, the video sub-heading clearly states that the missiles were fired so as NOT TO HIT the drones, but to get VERY close to them, since destroying the drones would be too expensive. Then, the missile passes real close to the drone and the weapons officer says - "Well Done".

Ah, I missed that..

 

[asianobserve]

Actually Kunal, the video sub-heading clearly states that the missiles were fired so as NOT TO HIT the drones, but to get VERY close to them, since destroying the drones would be too expensive. Then, the missile passes real close to the drone and the weapons officer says - "Well Done".

The level of technology needed for a weapons system to conduct a test like that is so immense... imagine intentionally missing by only several inches at supersonic speeds to spare an expensive drone? This means that the RAM can be dictated how and when to hit a target at supersonic speeds.

 

[pack leader]

Barack 1 and 8 are different missiles
Barack 8 will be operational in 2012
the hanit fiasco was caused by human error

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The level of technology needed for a weapons system to conduct a test like that is so immense... imagine intentionally missing by only several inches at supersonic speeds to spare an expensive drone? This means that the RAM can be dictated how and when to hit a target at supersonic speeds.

It does but what is the range of RAM, Unlike it take some time to lock on drone, their will be secs for Supersonic..

 

[asianobserve]

It does but what is the range of RAM, Unlike it take some time to lock on drone, their will be secs for Supersonic..

I know. RAM is a CIWS, hence the range.

 

[death.by.chocolate]

The level of technology needed for a weapons system to conduct a test like that is so immense... imagine intentionally missing by only several inches at supersonic speeds to spare an expensive drone? This means that the RAM can be dictated how and when to hit a target at supersonic speeds.

RAM is fully autonomous and can't 'intentionally' miss its target, more likely the AIM-9 proximity fragmentation warhead was removed before the test. The missile isn't a hit to kill projectile, if it was a real threat the missile would have detonated near the target and spread thousands metal fragments all over the target.

 

[asianobserve]

Okay. That explains the vid. TY.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: MRSAM gains momentum; India, Israel developing 450 missiles & 18 firing units under the project


Bangalore/Hyderabad: The Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) – an Indo-Israeli joint weapon system development project -- undertaken by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) along with the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), sees to have finally picked up momentum. Billed to replace the aging and outdated Pechora SAM systems, currently being used by the Indian Air Force (IAF), the project promises to deliver over 450-plus MRSAMs and 18 firing units at an approved cost of Rs 10,075 crore.The MRSAM system has an intercept range of 70 km for a fighter class aircraft target.

The missile carries an active radar seeker, dual pulse rocket motor for effective end game, and a bi-directional data link for mid-course guidance and kill assessment. It is also equipped with a modern ground-based multi-function 3D rotating active phased array radar (with multi beam electronic scanning capability) to provide high quality Air Situation Picture (ASP) and weapon support under adverse operational and environmental conditions (capable of operating at extreme condition of -30deg C, altitude of 3.5 km).

Sources tell Express that once operational, the MRSAMs will be the best bet for an effective air defence of vital areas/vital points (VAs/VPs) in the Indian sub-continent. "The ground based radar of the MRSAM system has a robust ECCM (electronic counter-counter measures) features. It detects very low RCS (radar cross-section) targets in complex, cluttered and jamming environment while simultaneously performing long-range surveillance, target classification and multi-target engagement. It is capable of neutralizing a variety of aerial threats and operates on a network-centric command and control architecture," sources claim.

The weapon system can operate on standalone mode or joint targeting mode using network centric concept, while having the combined ASP from all the existing sensors of the air defence system. "The system can also be integrated with air-borne platforms like Air-borne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) for centralized command and control. DRDO will develop the rear section of the MRSAM, while the IAI will pitch in with the technologies for the front part," sources said.
It is for the first time that a joint-development project has been sanctioned with a commitment to deliver the system within a short time. Presently the weapon system is in the development phase with the preliminary, detailed and critical design reviews completed. Realisation of the prototype hardware has also been initiated for development trials.

Though behind schedule, owing to technological challenges faced during the development phase, the trials of MRSAM system are likely to take place in 2013-2014 and the induction of the first firing unit into the Services, now planned in the third quarter of 2014.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Indo-Israel missile deal: All sides of the story - Indian Express

Indo-Israel missile deal: All sides of the story



"¢Why are the missiles needed?

DRDO-IAI joint venture will develop and equip Indian Air Force (IAF) with 18 combat management systems with 435 MRSAMs. Missiles will replace obsolete PECHORA missile systems. In December 2008, DRDO chief M Natarajan informed Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) that the nation's air defence was under threat: IAF had reported that 17 out of 60 firing units of PECHORA had already been phased out.

"¢What do Left and BJP say?

The Left, traditionally opposed to defence ties with Tel Aviv, wants the deal scrapped because IAI is under CBI scrutiny in the Barak missile deal. It also wants the Government to explain why 6% of the contract sum is being paid as business expenses to IAI. The BJP says the deal reeks of middlemen, and will scrap it if it comes to power.

"¢What is the background of the deal?

Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) of the Ministry of Defence took the decision to develop MRSAM with Israeli collaboration on June 19, 2006. On January 4, 2007, the Defence Minister approved the Price Negotiation Committee headed by DRDO's VK Saraswat and IAI's Itzhak Nissan. On December 16, 2008, CCS cleared the deal. DRDO told CCS that MRSAM was the land derivative of an ongoing long-range surface-to-air missile project with Israel for the Navy. DRDO conceded that Akash, the indigenous missile system in development since 1984, had been a sub-optimal performer, following which it was decided that IAF would purchase only two squadrons, to be deployed in less-than-strategic airfields.



"¢What questions did Antony ask?

What DRDO did not explain was why it needed to develop a missile with a 70-km range with Israel when American (Standard Missile MK IV), French (Aster 15/30) and Russian (RIF) missile systems with longer ranges (up to 240 miles) and proven performance were already in service. A stickler for transparency, Antony asked DRDO to address the concerns expressed by opposition parties.

"¢India already possesses a more powerful missile in the same class: the advance air defence (AAD) missile, which is part of India's anti-ballistic missile shield.

DRDO: MRSAM is four times more manoeuvrable than AAD. AAD performs sub-optimally while engaging aircraft in tail-chase mode, reducing the air defence engagement envelope.

"¢The deal could mean the death of the Akash missile system.

DRDO: MRSAM can engage targets 70 km away; Akash has a range of just 25 km. Deputy Chief of Air Staff has stated that PECHORA is obsolete and IAF needs a replacement urgently.

"¢No open tendering process was followed.

DRDO: Decisions on acquiring weapons systems are made by DAC. IAF had, after evaluating the ongoing long-range surface-to-air missile (LRSAM) project, concluded the missile met operational requirements for an MRSAM system as well. IAF proposed a joint development programme between DRDO and IAI to move quickly on an urgent need. DAC approved "make" decision and thus, no tenders were floated.

"¢Missile seeker technology has not been transferred.

DRDO: Significant share of work in seeker technology has been awarded to Indian industry. For more than 80% of missiles, seeker sub-assemblies will be manufactured, assembled, tested in India with complete production drawings and assembly/test procedures.

"¢Six per cent business charges are being paid.

DRDO: Business expenses are costs towards warranty, bank guarantees, financing, insurance, transportation etc. These are included in the cost of the product. The 6% figure was not mentioned in IAI quote and is not in the contract. It was mentioned only in the report of the price negotiation committee, which brought it down from 13%, to demonstrate its approach in arriving at the reasonability of the negotiated price.

"¢Bribes were paid as part of business expenses.

DRDO: Not true. IAI signed an integrity pact before price negotiations began. Final contract (article 30.1) is very stringent about integrity. Contract can be scrapped in case of an irregularity.

"¢Contract was not examined from the legal angle.

DRDO: CBI has filed FIRs in connection with deals for Barak and 200 missiles with IAI and Rafael of Israel, but is yet to submit charge-sheet. Additional Solicitor General had opined it would be appropriate to wait for the charge-sheet before deciding to bar the firms. The Law Ministry felt an embargo only on the basis of an FIR may not be justified, and asked The Defence Ministry to first assess urgency of the national security need. Central Vigilance Commission felt results from CBI's probe lent credibility to allegations of involvement of middlemen, but asked the Defence Ministry to make the final decision after consulting the Law Ministry.

The Law Minister said the decision should be made at the highest levels. The entire matter was referred to Air Headquarters, which, with concurrence of the Air Chief, reiterated the immediate need to induct LLQRM (low level radars from Rafael), MRSAM and additional Aerostat radars. It was only due to this urgency, strategic implications of delay, IAI's integrity commitment, and the ASG's view, that CCS cleared the MRSAM project.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Barak 8 / MR-SAM Test Program to Begin in Early 2012 | Defense Update

Barak 8 / MR-SAM Test Program to Begin in Early 2012

India and Israel are planning to conduct a system test of Barak 8 Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missile (MR-SAM) early next year. IAI and DRDO are cooperating in the development of the Medium and Long Range Surface to Air Missile (MR-SAM/LR-SAM) missiles, also known as Barak-8, are preparing for the next milestone in the program – testing with its entire supporting system, in early 2012. The Israel Navy also expects to filed the missile with its upgraded/new Saar 5 / 5B corvettes.

Barak 8, a critical development program for the navies of both countries, went through significant development delays since parts of the missile were not completed in time for testing. The first Barak 8 missile test took place in israel in May 2010. The Economic Times of india has recently quoted DRDO officials saying the test is now planned to be conducted in Israel in January of February 2012. The weapon qualification program will include eight test firings, to take place in israel and India, prior to induction into service. Elements of the system have already been delivered to India, including the four-plane MF-STAR phased array radar and shipboard electronic modules supporting the system.

The MRSAM missiles are scheduled to equip the three Kolkata class (Project 15A) guided missile destroyers currently under construction at the Mazagon shipyards in India. These vessels will be delivered to the Indian Navy in 2012 and their Barak-8 systems are expected to become operational a year later in 2013. Four additional Kolkata class destroyers (Project15B) will be equipped with an extended range version of the missile (ER-SAM) capable of intercepting targets at a range of 100 km. These destroyers will also carry the Brahmos II supersonic and new Nirbhany subsonic cruise missiles with offensive reach of 1,000 km.

The Indian Air Force is also planning to field the extended range version of the missile, as part of the LR-SAM program, enhancing the nation's air defense capability with wide area, The system will employ advanced surface radars, airborne sensors and advanced datalinks to provide network-centric air defense capability against aircraft, cruise missiles and anti-ship guided missiles, with each site covering a range of 100-110km.

Barak 8 have incorporated an advanced multi-function electronically scanning array that continuously covers 360 degree, thereby providing a defensive shield in all directions while simultaneously functioning in target acquisition and surface search modes. In principle, each destroyer could provide air cover for a large battle group, or share defense assets with other surface combattants, to best respond to aerial or missile threats.

For the ground based system, each battery has it's own control van and mobile command. Network centricity of the system is supported by the Command & Control element of each of these batteries communicating with other batteries and other air defense assets, sharing a common 'sky picture' thus providing positive identification of threats or friendly aircraft, missiles or non combatant elements, assisting commanders in deciding ow best to react to a threat. (co author: Debojit Sarkar, India)

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Indo-Israeli MRSAM to Have Its Debut Test In 2012


Indo-Israeli MRSAM to Have Its Debut Test In 2012

The much-touted collaborative project of India and Israel to design and produce Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) will have its debut test in 2012. This Indo-Israeli project aims to deliver a 70 kilometer range MRSAM and the project cost is to the tune of $ 2 billion. MR-SAM systems would be deployed for the security of important cities as well as for securing nuclear installations across the country.
According to officials, the prototype of the MRSAM, including the radar and its launcher will be tested in 2012. State-run Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and Israeli companies ELTA and Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) have a 50:50 work share in the joint venture for developing the MRSAM. The MRSAM will cater to the need of India and Israel and the entire system will be produced in India. The tie-up between DRDO and Israeli firms to develop the 70 kilometers range MRSAM happened in 2009.The Indo-Israeli MRSAM project also involves a local Indian firm for the creation of custom-made cooling system to ensure thermal stability of the radar by producing and circulating cool water at 17 degrees Celsius. The system has been developed by Hemair Systems India Limited.
The MRSAM system would be able to engage aircrafts, helicopters, missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles [UAVs] and all types of airborne targets at a range of 70 kilometers. Each MRSAM squadron will be made up of two units and one MRSAM system will include one acquisition radar, one guidance radar, one control center and three launch systems. Each launcher will have eight missiles.

Besides the Indo-Israeli MRSAM project, India is also pursuing the indigenous anti ballistic missile project, Prithvi Air Defense (PAD) System which is also in the testing stage. Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) System has been tested at height of 75 kilometers and the range is planned to be increased to more than 120 kilometers. In addition, the PAD system has also been tested to kill an incoming missile at a height of 15 kilometers. Both the endo-atmospheric and exo-atmospheric tests have already been carried out.

Meanwhile, India has also issued a request for information (RFI) from global and domestic missile manufacturers for the supply of weapon system in a short span of time. The intention is create a strong air defence system to defend India's strategic locations and assets and these MRSAMs will go to the Indian Air Force (IAF). The MRSAM is required by the IAF which is currently using the vintage OSA-AK and Pechora air defence missile systems. The MRSAM will be capable of all-weather, all-terrain and day-and-night operation with a 3.5 kilometer altitude ceiling. The system will be capable of engaging multiple targets against all types of targets in a network-centric operations environment. The IAF's current requirement is for a multifunctional active phased array radar for early warning of a three-dimensional target and linking this information to a central fire control unit to activate the air defence mechanism.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

RFI for MRSAM - Huge new orders
India to buy missiles to secure key installations

New Delhi: To plug gaps and build up a robust air defence system, India will soon buy a large number of missiles to defend the country's vital tactical and strategic locations and high-security zones from enemy threats and possible aerial attacks, an officer said Wednesday.

Ahead of issuing a tender for the purchase of medium-range surface-to-air (MRSAM) missiles, the defence ministry has this week issued a request for information (RFI) from global and domestic missile manufacturers asking them if they could supply the weapon system within a short time-frame to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

"The defence ministry intends to procure the MRSAM system for the Indian Air Force and the system will be required for air defence of vital areas and points. The MRSAM is required in an early time-frame," a senior IAF officer said here Wednesday.

The MRSAM will be capable of all-weather, all-terrain and day-and-night operation with a 3.5 km altitude ceiling. The system will be capable of engaging multiple targets against all types of targets in a network-centric operations environment.

The MRSAM is required by the IAF to augment its existing inventory of Soviet-vintage OSA-AK and Pechora air defence missile systems.

A surface-to-air missile is a weapon designed to be launched from the ground to destroy incoming aircraft or missiles and is usually deployed in an air defence role as an anti-aircraft system. MRSAMs ideally have a range of 70 km to 90 km to engage its intended target.

The MRSAM is activated with the use of radars and sensors that detect the incoming aircraft or missile and fire the missile as a counter measure.

The IAF's current requirement is for multifunctional active phased array radar for early warning of a three-dimensional target and linking this information to a central fire control unit to activate the air defence mechanism.

This procurement will be over and above the 18 MRSAM units that India is buying from Israel in a $1 billion deal signed in 2009.

IANS

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India & Israel's Barak SAM Development Project(s)

April 13/11: IANS reports that India's MoD has issued a request for information (RFI) from global and domestic missile manufacturers, asking them if they could supply the medium range air defense missile within a short time-frame to the Indian Air Force (IAF), for defense of vital installations. Submitted systems must be capable of all-weather, all-terrain, day/night operation with a 3.5 km altitude ceiling, and able to engage multiple targets that include a range of aerial enemies.

The RFI is ahead of a tender for the purchase of medium-range surface-to-air (MRSAM) missiles, and the emergency buy would reportedly be over and above the 18 MR-SAM units that India is buying from Israel in the 2009 deal. The near-term timeline would appear to disqualify the Barak-8, preventing tri-service acceptance. Obvious Air Force contenders would include India's own Akash, and offerings from MBDA (VL-MICA), Kongsberg/Raytheon (SLAMRAAM/NASAMS, possibly Patriot PAC-3 as well), Russia (TOR-M2E, SA-20/S-300 PMU2 possible), and IAI/RAFAEL (Spyder MR-SAM variant, complementing the SR-SAM variant India has already ordered).

Aug 9/10: Defence Minister Shri AK Antony updates the status of various missile programs, in a Parliamentary reply to Shri SB Wankhede and Shri AP Shivaji. Trishul and Akash aren't mentioned at all; the former presumably owing to its cancellation, the latter because it may no longer be a development program. LR-SAM's ballistic flight trials was undertaken in May 2010. MR-SAM's preliminary design has been carried out, along with "pre-tender briefing to all prospective vendors."

Feb 2/10: India increases its Akash SAM buy to 1,000, and will deploy them in the rugged terrain of the northeast as SA-3 replacements. The INR 42.79 billion (about $925 million) contract will buy 6 squadrons of Akash medium-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) from state-run Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL). This 750 missile order follows an INR 12.21 billion (about $250 million) order for 2 initial squadrons with 250 missiles total, back in January 2009.

Delivery under this order is expected between 2012-2015, stabilizing Akash as a shorter-range complement to the MR-SAM and affirming the IAF's confidence. This does not seem likely to endanger the MR-SAM project, but it removes the expansion possibilities that full cancellation or a limited 2-squadron Akash program would have created. The Hindu | Indian Express | Times of India | Times Now | Bloomberg | India's Business Times.


Dec 14/09: Defence Minister Shri AK Antony offers a program update, in a written Parliamentary reply to Shri Asaduddin Owaisi:

"Defence Research Development Organization (DRDO) has undertaken joint development of missiles, Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile (LRSAM) for Indian navy and Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) for Indian Air Force with M/s Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI), Israel. The cost of project for LRSAM is Rs. 2606.02 crore and cost of project for MRSAM is Rs. 10075 crore. Both the missiles being developed are comparable in performance and cost to missiles available in their class in the world market."

Nov 9/09: Reports surface again that Israel and India have signed a deal for the Barak-8 missile system, which appears to be the Army's MR-SAM project. Indian reports quote an Israel official, who says that India signed a $1.1 billion contract in April 2009, with delivery expected by 2017.

Islamabad's The Daily Mail claim that the deal is $1.4 billion, and involves 2,000 Barak-8 missiles for land and naval forces. India has significant industrial offset laws, and The Daily Mail reports that IAI will make offsetting purchases from Tata equal to 33% of the contract. These would almost certainly include Tata trucks for the land-based Barak-8 AMD, as well as purchases and partnerships involving Tata Advanced Systems Ltd. (TASL), whose collaboration may also include the development, licensed manufacture, or operation of UAVs, radars, electronic warfare systems and homeland security systems. Reuters | domain-b | PressTV | The Daily Mail, Pakistan.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Ex-IAF officer played key role - India - DNA

Ex-IAF officer played key role.

Who were the main actors pushing for the controversial Rs10,000 crore medium-range surface-to-air (MRSAM) contract with the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)?

The deal, signed on February 27, just days before the general election was announced, had an unheard of clause for paying Rs600 crore (6% of the contract value) as "business charges".

While Israel's Elul Group is already under scrutiny, serious questions are also being raised about a retired Indian Air Force (IAF) officer who played a crucial role in formally proposing purchase of MRSAMs from Israel.

This officer was also responsible for scuttling the large-scale induction of the indigenous surface-to-air missile Akash.

Over the past few days, DNA's investigation has raisedquestions about the controversial deal with IAI, which is already being probed by the Central Bureau of Investigation in connection with the Barak missile deal of 2000. The MRSAM deal was signed despite initial vigilance objections, neutral legal opinions, and the success of the indigenous Advanced Air Defence missile of similar capability.

DNA's investigation found that the IAF officer, who retired about two years ago, is now working for the Israeli arms industry in New Delhi.

Without naming the officer, Defence Research & Development Organisation chief M Natarajan told a press conference in Bangalore during the Aero India show last month that the officer had slashed his predecessor's commitment to induct eight squadrons of Akash missiles. The officer had brought the figure down to just two squadrons. Akash has a range of 27km, while MRSAM has a range of about 70km.

A source in the defence ministry confirmed that even for the induction of these two Akash squadrons, the IAF put a condition that the DRDO must first agree to the MRSAM project. "We were blackmailed into the MRSAM project," said the source.

"He [the former IAF officer] killed Akash, blackmailed us to agree to MRSAM, and is now working for them [Israeli arms companies] openly."

"Yes, we are aware (that the officer is working for Israelis)," said a senior defence ministry official, who had defended the government for going ahead with the MRSAM deal.

The official said the ministry has not yet sought clarification from the officer because he retired "two years ago". But "he has very limited access in the defence ministry and air headquarters," the official claimed.

The retired officer had held such a crucial position in the IAF that it is surprising why the government has closed its eyes to his alliance with foreign arms firms after retirement.
The role of another IAF officer is also coming under scrutiny in this matter. He is associated with Nova Integrated Systems, the Tata-IAI joint venture which will be integrating the MRSAM.

Several officials in the defence ministry are baffled how a private-sector firm has been nominated as the integrator for the sensitive missile system. In India, all missile systems are integrated in public-sector units, usually Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL).

In fact, DRDO suggested BDL as the integrator for the MRSAM, with Israelis supplying the seeker and some radar components and DRDO making the airframe, servos, and propulsion. But Nova will be doing the integration now.

This is yet another decision that has raised eyebrows. Sources in the defence establishment believe it is a perfect example of how the Israelis were able to get through whatever they wanted.

 

[plugwater]

So IAF version Barak is 100-110 km and IN is 100 km, not bad.

And why are these idiots saying Barak is the replacement for Akash?

It would be nice to increase the range of Barak to 15km or something and Akash to 50-60 kms.

Or we can make one in 50km range using the new Nag seeker or Barak's.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

So IAF version Barak is 100-110 km and IN is 100 km, not bad.

And why are these idiots saying Barak is the replacement for Akash?

It would be nice to increase the range of Barak to 15km or something and Akash to 50-60 kms.

Or we can make one in 50km range using the new Nag seeker or Barak's.

weren't there reports of a longer range Akash 2??