Indian Army MRSAM

[p2prada]

So this diagram is a misrepresentation for the maximum range of SAM version of the Astra.

Yes, it is wrong.

Astra has 2 versions, one with 40km range and another 100km range. So I assumed SAM would be made out of the 100Km Astra.

The 100Km range is achieved when the missile is fired at a great height and at high speed.

From ground locations, the range is 15-30 Km at best.

Going by the might of Indian experience in the field of science and technology, India should have the technology of ICBM and other missile launching technology long back.

Requirements for ICBM is determined by our threat profile.

Where is the enemy at greater than 5000 Km?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Not sure, But can be done with addition of boosters..

Perhaps 80kms..

So I assumed SAM would be made out of the 100Km Astra.

 

[Payeng]

Astra has 2 versions, one with 40km range and another 100km range. So I assumed SAM would be made out of the 100Km Astra.

Their is difference in performance wrt range launched in high altitude AAM (actually the claimed maximum range of an AAM is based on maximum performance at high altitude) and that of a surface launched missile, for example a surface launched US AIM-120 AMRAAM NASAMS is some thing around 15-25 km, Similarly if you put the Akash SAM in Aircraft its range will drastically improve in high altitude (note fighter aircraft max speed performance at sea level and high altitude), I am not sure which version of AMRAAM is used in NASAMS but I read it some where that a BVR with a claim of 100 km at high altitude performs some 40 km onlee at sea level.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Requirements for ICBM is determined by our threat profile.

Where is the enemy at greater than 5000 Km?

My point is we should have possessed this tech long back.....

And also after the 1962 incident with China we must have developed a formidable force and also must indigenously developed our own equipment and fighters rather than going for the foreign stuff and wasting the TAX PAYER"S MONEY......

We had wasted a lot money in kickbacks and bribery and looting by the politicians and in the end we have some obsolete equipment and are not fully equipped and prepared.......

 

[Payeng]

ahh @p2prada is faster then me on reply back (BVR???)

 

[WMD]

Astra has 2 versions, one with 40km range and another 100km range. So I assumed SAM would be made out of the 100Km Astra.

Astra SAM will be comparable to VL-MICA as far as range is concerned.
When used as SAM the range of all A2A missile decreases drastically, may be something to do with gravity.

 

[Payeng]

Two important area required for such missile, India is lagging behind is Radar technology and seeker technology, in some US assessment report upon Indian defence industrial capabilities it was said that India is lagging in the field of computer and electronics

 

[Payeng]

Till date we dont have a proved target seeker on duty, not sure about BrahMos, Akash is based upon Command guidance, Astra is yet to prove itself, LR and MR-SAM JV with Israel is due to to fact that India is stagnating in this field, Trishul project is officially closed, ballistic missile India develop do not necessarily need them, even IR and milimetric seeker of Nag is yet to pass exam, their are some glimpse of such seeker head used in Indian Ballistic Missile defence program but is classified in nature, to know more about its origin and performance moreover onlee a handful of such test had happened.

 

[sayareakd]

Two important area required for such missile, India is lagging behind is Radar technology and seeker technology, in some US assessment report upon Indian defence industrial capabilities it was said that India is lagging in the field of computer and electronics

DRDO radar guys wont be very happy with what you are saying. BTW now we have capability to track 5k missile.

 

[Payeng]

DRDO radar guys wont be very happy with what you are saying. BTW now we have capability to track 5k missile.

Swordfish/Greenpine radar?

 

[sayareakd]

Swordfish/Greenpine radar?

wait for it, not much officially, wait for A5 test and go through the report carefully.

 

[p2prada]

My point is we should have possessed this tech long back.....

And also after the 1962 incident with China we must have developed a formidable force and also must indigenously developed our own equipment and fighters rather than going for the foreign stuff and wasting the TAX PAYER"S MONEY......

We had wasted a lot money in kickbacks and bribery and looting by the politicians and in the end we have some obsolete equipment and are not fully equipped and prepared.......

There is a pressing need to fund what is necessary and important as of today rather than work on something we don't really need.

Are you of the opinion that we need a heavy bomber too? We don't need it, so why spend $20 Billion developing one?

ahh @p2prada is faster then me on reply back (BVR???)

: D

Astra SAM will be comparable to VL-MICA as far as range is concerned.
When used as SAM the range of all A2A missile decreases drastically, may be something to do with gravity.

Air resistance.

Two important area required for such missile, India is lagging behind is Radar technology and seeker technology, in some US assessment report upon Indian defence industrial capabilities it was said that India is lagging in the field of computer and electronics

We have no issues with either, meaning we can develop it by ourselves or pay for it. As of today our biggest obstacle is a gas turbine engine.

Brahmos uses an Indian made seeker (not designed in India). Astra uses Russian seekers but will be replaced with ours. Barak uses Israeli seekers. Indian BMD uses our own seekers.

As for radar, BMD we have two radars. One is the early warning and tracking radar, Swordfish. The other is a French FCR meant to provide targeting info to the missiles. The designation is not known.

Airborne radars - CABS has developed one for AEWC project and is developing another for AWACS project. Ground based AESAs are also being developed. The only issue is fighter radar and we have chosen Israel for that as a development partner.

We have made some recent strides in computers. We are working on Modular avionics after all. We are lacking in the Supercomputer department though.

 

[Payeng]

We have no issues with either, meaning we can develop it by ourselves or pay for it. As of today our biggest obstacle is a gas turbine engine.

Brahmos uses an Indian made seeker (not designed in India). Astra uses Russian seekers but will be replaced with ours. Barak uses Israeli seekers. Indian BMD uses our own seekers.

As for radar, BMD we have two radars. One is the early warning and tracking radar, Swordfish. The other is a French FCR meant to provide targeting info to the missiles. The designation is not known.

Airborne radars - CABS has developed one for AEWC project and is developing another for AWACS project. Ground based AESAs are also being developed. The only issue is fighter radar and we have chosen Israel for that as a development partner.

We have made some recent strides in computers. We are working on Modular avionics after all. We are lacking in the Supercomputer department though.

Well none of the missiles and missile systems are operational minus BrahMos and minus Akash a medium range command guided missile system, problem is using foreign systems, the developer do not teach us the trick of the trade, that makes us just the end user like any other country.

 

[p2prada]

Well none of the missiles and missile systems are operational minus BrahMos and minus Akash a medium range command guided missile system, problem is using foreign systems, the developer do not teach us the trick of the trade, that makes us just the end user like any other country.

The BMD is being deployed as we speak.

The CABS AESAs are a recent development.

There are some foreign systems which are as you say, then there are some, like Swordfish, where we have ToT.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

@p2prada, my point is indigenous equipment and high production of reliable arms and ammunition inside India, rather than outsourcing the equipment.....

 

[p2prada]

@p2prada, my point is indigenous equipment and high production of reliable arms and ammunition inside India, rather than outsourcing the equipment.....

I had already explained this before. Simply because something came out of DRDO doesn't make it indigenous. Both MKI and T-90 are more indigenous than LCA and Arjun. What matters is what we can make at home because that's what we can really fight with.

Nearly 100% of the MKI (except landing gear due to costs) and over 85% of the T-90 (except Catherine and some other electronics) are made in India, including the engines.

LCA and Arjun indigenous figures are less than that, especially considering engines are imported for both from countries that slap sanctions the minute you sneeze.

A lot of stuff that DRDO makes come with foreign strings attached. It is both a good thing and a bad thing. Fact is these imported equipment are so crucial that the entire system fails if it is sanctioned. No point making a howitzer and sticking a sanction prone foreign gun to it with foreign rounds. That's a failure from the point of indigenization.

So, you tell me which can be relied upon during war. Stuff we can make at home by paying royalty or stuff we designed at home but rely on foreign support for success. Pay the Russians any amount of money and they will get you anything short of what's blocked by international treaties. And the Russians have real undisputed first grade stuff depending on what you are looking for. The French and Israelis follow as long as there are no crippling sanctions placed. Last comes DRDO which gets crippled the minute sanctions are placed. Only a handful of DRDO projects run with real indigenization goals. The rest are simply a cut and paste of foreign equipment.

 

[arnabmit]

Oh ok, sorry for the noob mistake.

Yes, it is wrong.



The 100Km range is achieved when the missile is fired at a great height and at high speed.

From ground locations, the range is 15-30 Km at best.



Requirements for ICBM is determined by our threat profile.

Where is the enemy at greater than 5000 Km?

 

[Payeng]

says it all.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Sir, tech base in 1962 quite poor...........

Point is, in hindsight, who knew.........

All energy was on creating OFBs (defence production was major point then) and blocking Henderson-Brooks report............

My point is we should have possessed this tech long back.....

And also after the 1962

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Why can't we make good equipment?

Why to copy and paste?

We have enough money to design and manufacture good and the best equipment, but yet we lack in doing so?

We always run for the foreign equipment and beg for ToT.......