Indian Army Aviation Wing

[Kunal Biswas]

But before, what really bugs me is that IAF has a large inventory of choppers of all types, whereas its the IA that needs them more. I think all IAF choppers should go to the Army, especially the attack ones. The IAF should only maintain a fleet of choppers for SAR and transport for their requirements. Assault choppers and heavy lift choppers should be solely with the Army.

That is correct, But i think Dhruv is enough for logistical issues and other in army..

IAF is doing good job regarding Helo logistical part with MI-17s, Though Army wants MTA as there were issues in Srilanka..

As for MI-35 helo, None after IPKF deployment ever used in any Operations except sending them in UN and in Exercise..

IAF is for Army needs, But time and time again their are flaws came out where non can be blame but the system..

Therefore To some extend Army need to be self sufficient....

 

[asianobserve]

Here for Army turbo-props in Army aviation suits better than no other specially giving a Jet size CAS from Short fields or roads..

Do not forget helos, they remain as very valuable CAS assets-

1. Armed helos - for recon and limited CAS

2. Dedicated attack helos - CAS with wide assortment of weapons and with limited recon.

 

[ace009]

This one looks mean - what is it?

 

[sandeepdg]

This one looks mean - what is it?

The last pic posted by asianobserver is that of an Mi-28.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Do not forget helos, they remain as very valuable CAS assets-

1. Armed helos - for recon and limited CAS

Their is no question abt the roles of Helo operation in Army..

Indian Army use HAL lancer for CT operations and soon replace by Rudra..

And dedicated Attack Helos is LCH..

 

[agentperry]

Why it would be futile after i have already given reason why its needed on first place..



What internationally ?
The logic is a independent fighting force having basic necessity to fight a multi dimension warfare..

How they are more efficient ?, I am talking combination 500lb LGB, Cluster bombs, 70mm Rocket pods and MG, To effectively cover CAS for troops, The only good part abt UAV is its unmanned other than that its not a platform to be dependent for CAS..

I never heard they have any problems with Spares..

the problem of spares and HAL negligence to such a small customer is in the media itself when DG bsf wanted dhruv to be replaced by some other helicopter also the tri-service command is more than sufficient to optimally use what we have and not increasing the pressure on def budget.

on an average an aircraft takes 3 times the money spent on buying it during its whole lifetime. means a plane costing 20 million will take 60 million during its whole lifetime to make it combat worthy( life approx 35-40 years). so buying 3-4 squadron means 60-80 aircrafts- ie a modest fighter nower days come at 35-40 million dollars( russian) so in total IA will be spending 240 million dollars on these aircrafts including buying amount and upkeep EVERY YEAR. this money can be saved and spent on other important things like artillery(long range), missiles and LR rockets.
240 million dollar is a very big amount and not to forget the upkeep of airfields and pilots and weapon suite that comes expensive.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This one looks mean - what is it?

One of My fav helos..

AH-6 little bird helicopter

The first and second are latest versions of it, Its a outstanding COIN helos with good reputation in Philippines army..

Low costs and Low flying cost, Single turbine, Armored cabin..

If Hal didnt had LANCER, It would have been in my wish list..

 

[sandeepdg]

That is correct, But i think Dhruv is enough for logistical issues and other in army..

IAF is doing good job regarding Helo logistical part with MI-17s, Though Army wants MTA as there were issues in Srilanka..

As for MI-35 helo, None after IPKF deployment ever used in any Operations except sending them in UN and in Exercise..

IAF is for Army needs, But time and time again their are flaws came out where non can be blame but the system..

Therefore To some extend Army need to be self sufficient....

No mate, that's not what I think. The main logistics that IAF caters to is none other than that of the IA. IA is the biggest arm of our defense forces with a strength that is 10 times more than IAF personnel strength. For an Army of that size, its usage of helicopters is dismally low.

Look at the USAF and the American army. The USAF only uses helis like the Pave Hawk and the Bell Huey for transport and utility and some other Russian helis for its special operations squadrons.

The US Army is the prime user of choppers. All attack choppers are with the Army and the Marine Corps. Plus the Black Hawks for utility transport and the CH-47 for heavy lift are also solely used by the army.

And I am not talking about the Mi 24/35 with the IAF. They are bound to retire in a few years anyways. I am saying that all the future Rudras, LCH should go to the army. Ditto for most of the MI-17s, Mi-8, Mi-26 and the future heavy lift helis that we are planning to buy.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

the problem of spares and HAL negligence to such a small customer is in the media itself when DG bsf wanted dhruv to be replaced by some other helicopter..

means a plane costing 20 million will take 60 million during its whole lifetime to make it combat worthy( life approx 35-40 years). so buying 3-4 squadron means 60-80 aircrafts- ie a modest fighter nower days come at 35-40 million dollars( russian) so in total IA will be spending 240 million dollars on these aircrafts including buying amount and upkeep EVERY YEAR. this money can be saved and spent on other important things like artillery(long range), missiles and LR rockets.

1. I have no idea what you are talking abt ?, I never heard, If so pls provide a credible Link, Indian media is full of BS..

2. I am talking Aircraft 3-5 million, Btw, Same amount of money you specified we spend on a squadron of T-72 tanks or more..

 

[agentperry]

1. I have no idea what you are talking abt ?, I never heard, If so pls provide a credible Link, Indian media is full of BS..

2. I am talking Aircraft 3-5 million, Btw, Same amount of money you specified we spend on a squadron of T-72 tanks or more..

Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv Is A Piece Of Junk: BSF - World Of Defense
this should be the ans of first queries. this si an extract from press release made by bsf-dg and not a media report thru vishwasniye sutra.
second thing if these aircrafts are second hand for sure and also the upkeep and up-gradation cost of the same will be very high. performing so amny surgery on these used birds will substantially decrease their life.

its much better to fly UAC and UCAV in the difficult terrains army is responsible to take care of.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The US Army is the prime user of choppers. All attack choppers are with the Army and the Marine Corps. Plus the Black Hawks for utility transport and the CH-47 for heavy lift are also solely used by the army.

And I am not talking about the Mi 24/35 with the IAF. They are bound to retire in a few years anyways. I am saying that all the future Rudras, LCH should go to the army. Ditto for most of the MI-17s, Mi-8, Mi-26 and the future heavy lift helis that we are planning to buy.

Its true and very correct, I agree completely, though my previous comment based on what i know, IAF is doing good job with Helo logistical issues all over the country so does Heavy Logistical operations....

But IA wants MTA for some means of Medium transport capability in emergency situations..


Those MI-24/35 will be replaced by MI-28 or Apache, And they will be doing same as their last once..
You reminded me abt Army interest in Chinook, I am not sure but IA may go for it in future, And LCH and other gunships need to strengthen Army in different crops and commands....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv Is A Piece Of Junk: BSF - World Of Defense
this should be the ans of first queries. this si an extract from press release made by bsf-dg and not a media report thru vishwasniye sutra.

second thing if these aircrafts are second hand for sure and also the upkeep and up-gradation cost of the same will be very high. performing so amny surgery on these used birds will substantially decrease their life.

Most of the times these helicopters are under servicing

The helicopter keeps developing regular snags," they said.

BSF used are brand new and IA dont use such nor any-other so no question abt second hand..

That is issue with maintenance and this part is correct..

According to article they got only 6 helos for entire force..

At least a squadron would have helped in this situation, Paper work bureaucracy makes helos under repair all the time..

Its the way machines work if one flying other one is in maintenance, If their are 17 helos 7 are flying 5 under repair and rest are static..

After every flight a maintenance is required for problems, I am not a expert here but Airforce pilot ( Member of DFI ) Knows better..

Besides IA have proper maintenance facilities and trained men for Such machines, I doubt abt paramilitary..

there are issues about its capabilities to fly beyond a certain height,

'

'Absolutely NON SENSE !'

In PHOTOS: Dhruv excels in brutal Siachen - Rediff.com News

its much better to fly UAC and UCAV in the difficult terrains army is responsible to take care of.

Dedicated UCAV is 50 years from now in India..

So till then we have to relay on manned..

 

[agentperry]

BSF used are brand new and IA dont use such nor any-other so no question abt second hand..

That is issue with maintenance and this part is correct..

According to article they got only 6 helos for entire force..

At least a squadron would have helped in this situation, Paper work bureaucracy makes helos under repair all the time..

Its the way machines work if one flying other one is in maintenance, If their are 17 helos 7 are flying 5 under repair and rest are static..

After every flight a maintenance is required for problems, I am not a expert here but Airforce pilot ( Member of DFI ) Knows better..

Besides IA have proper maintenance facilities and trained men for Such machines, I doubt abt paramilitary..

'

'Absolutely NON SENSE !'

In PHOTOS: Dhruv excels in brutal Siachen - Rediff.com News

when i talked about the economies of scale in prior posts in same thread i was referring to this small force problem only. frequent grounding and crashes due to substandard spares from CIS nations will be headline for next decade if IA somehow inducts them. russian spares are already haunting IAF and i dont want same with IA. such a small force and that too scattered from gujrat in western sector to arunachal in eastern. atmost 6-7 planes at a base and a whole damn facility for such small planes which might never be used. there regular sorties and expenditure on upkeep with fuels and practicing= unnecessary burden

 

[Yusuf]

A dedicated CAS fighter like A10 even under AF command will make sure CAS will be well executed. The reason being A10 being a CAS fighter will have no other use. A dedicated pilot force which is well linked with Army command will be able to take care of CAS.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

when i talked about the economies of scale in prior posts in same thread i was referring to this small force problem only. frequent grounding and crashes due to substandard spares from CIS nations will be headline for next decade if IA somehow inducts them.

russian spares are already haunting IAF and i dont want same with IA. such a small force and that too scattered from gujrat in western sector to arunachal in eastern. atmost 6-7 planes at a base and a whole damn facility for such small planes which might never be used. there regular sorties and expenditure on upkeep with fuels and practicing= unnecessary burden

4-3 squadron of aircrafts is not a small forces..

Their are many nations using Aircraft not even in the scale i mentioned, Still running just fine..

IAF case is entirely different i posted in other thread..

That is not how things used or placed as you mentioned..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

A dedicated CAS fighter like A10 even under AF command will make sure CAS will be well executed. The reason being A10 being a CAS fighter will have no other use. A dedicated pilot force which is well linked with Army command will be able to take care of CAS.

I think A10 is not available for Export, The one dedicated CAS fighter is SU-25..

The problem is its still related with IAF, Even if pilot called for action he needed officially to conform from IAF..

Though our needs can be fulfilled by other means..

 

[ace009]

For IA, a "dedicated" CAS fighter is not ideal - you need more of a "flexible platform" - something that can do CAS, but can be used for recon, emergency supply drop offs etc.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

For IA, a "dedicated" CAS fighter is not ideal - you need more of a "flexible platform" - something that can do CAS, but can be used for recon, emergency supply drop offs etc.

Rudra is their for that purpose..

Dedicated CAS fixed wing for other purpose..

 

[Adux]

I think A10 is not available for Export,

It is not available for anything, production stopped long back

The one dedicated CAS fighter is SU-25..

Isnt the production for Su-25 stopped too?

The problem is its still related with IAF, Even if pilot called for action he needed officially to conform from IAF..

Currently, IA has command over Mi-25 and Helicopters, though manned by the Airforce? Will that not be the same way dedicated CAS will be handled.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Isnt the production for Su-25 stopped too?

Currently, IA has command over Mi-25 and Helicopters, though manned by the Airforce? Will that not be the same way dedicated CAS will be handled.

Su-25 lines will be start again as order will be placed by RUAF..

Better not, The whole problem with the command issue is very complex, What army ask is to have the full command of its Airborne assets just like we have on our Helos..