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Indian Army Aviation Wing
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[h=2]Army asks for attack copters[/h]
Published December 26, 2011
SOURCE: DECCAN CHRONICLE
The Indian Army has validated the concept of "aviation brigades" in its latest battlefield exercise and now wants attack helicopters of its own to provide aerial support to its tanks and advancing troops in a battle scenario. The concept was validated in the recently-held Exercise Sudarshan Shakti in the Rajasthan desert, sources said.
As per the Army's plans, each aviation brigade in future is to constitute three squadrons of helicopters. One squadron will comprise helicopters used for airlifting heavy equipment, the second will be used for recce purposes while the third squadron in the aviation brigade will perform the most crucial task of providing air support to the advancing battle tanks. Currently, the task of providing air-support to advancing troops in a battle-scenario is performed by attack helicopters of the Indian Air Force.
But the Army feels that it should have attack helicopters of its own to perform the task since the "aviation brigade is tailor-made" to move continuously with the Army formations on ground and maintain the "forward edge in the tactical battlefield area". Currently, the Army does not have its own attack helicopters.
Attack helicopters that are being developed for the Army by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) are currently undergoing trials."Unplanned fleeting opportunities present themselves at different points in time and space, which, if not capitalised upon, lead to a standard toe to toe slugging match. The presence of aviation brigade headquarters in the tactical battlefield area negates these misses," said a source.
http://idrw.org/?p=6093
SOURCE: DECCAN CHRONICLE
As per the Army's plans, each aviation brigade in future is to constitute three squadrons of helicopters. One squadron will comprise helicopters used for airlifting heavy equipment, the second will be used for recce purposes while the third squadron in the aviation brigade will perform the most crucial task of providing air support to the advancing battle tanks. Currently, the task of providing air-support to advancing troops in a battle-scenario is performed by attack helicopters of the Indian Air Force.
But the Army feels that it should have attack helicopters of its own to perform the task since the "aviation brigade is tailor-made" to move continuously with the Army formations on ground and maintain the "forward edge in the tactical battlefield area". Currently, the Army does not have its own attack helicopters.
Attack helicopters that are being developed for the Army by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) are currently undergoing trials."Unplanned fleeting opportunities present themselves at different points in time and space, which, if not capitalised upon, lead to a standard toe to toe slugging match. The presence of aviation brigade headquarters in the tactical battlefield area negates these misses," said a source.
http://idrw.org/?p=6093
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The air effort of the immediate battle zone should be with the Army.
While this may appear very clear cut, there the real problem arises is the air space management. IAF, AD, artillery, helicopters etc use the airspace and that requires centralised control/ coordination.
While this may appear very clear cut, there the real problem arises is the air space management. IAF, AD, artillery, helicopters etc use the airspace and that requires centralised control/ coordination.
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Army asks for attack copters
TheIndian Army has validated the conceptof "aviation brigades" in its latest battlefield exercise and now wants attack helicopters of its own to provide aerial support to its tanks and advancing troops in a battle scenario. The concept was validated in the recently-held Exercise Sudarshan Shakti in the Rajasthan desert, sources said.
As per the Army's plans, each aviation brigade in future is to constitute three squadrons of helicopters. One squadron will comprise helicopters used for airlifting heavy equipment, the second will be used for recce purposes while the third squadron in the aviation brigade will perform the most crucial task of providing air support to the advancing battle tanks. Currently, the task of providing air-support to advancing troops in a battle-scenario is performed by attack helicopters of the Indian Air Force.
But the Army feels that it should have attack helicopters of its own to perform the task since the "aviation brigade is tailor-made" to move continuously with the Army formations on ground and maintain the "forward edge in the tactical battlefield area". Currently, the Army does not have its own attack helicopters.
Attack helicopters that are being developed for the Army by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) are currently undergoing trials."Unplanned fleeting opportunities present themselves at different points in time and space, which, if not capitalised upon, lead to a standard toe to toe slugging match. The presence of aviation brigade headquarters in the tactical battlefield area negates these misses," said a source.
Army asks for attack copters | idrw.orgAs per the Army's plans, each aviation brigade in future is to constitute three squadrons of helicopters. One squadron will comprise helicopters used for airlifting heavy equipment, the second will be used for recce purposes while the third squadron in the aviation brigade will perform the most crucial task of providing air support to the advancing battle tanks. Currently, the task of providing air-support to advancing troops in a battle-scenario is performed by attack helicopters of the Indian Air Force.
But the Army feels that it should have attack helicopters of its own to perform the task since the "aviation brigade is tailor-made" to move continuously with the Army formations on ground and maintain the "forward edge in the tactical battlefield area". Currently, the Army does not have its own attack helicopters.
Attack helicopters that are being developed for the Army by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) are currently undergoing trials."Unplanned fleeting opportunities present themselves at different points in time and space, which, if not capitalised upon, lead to a standard toe to toe slugging match. The presence of aviation brigade headquarters in the tactical battlefield area negates these misses," said a source.
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A29 Super Tucano has been selected for LAS in US armed forces.
We need something like this for providing close air support for our ground forces.. Cost efficient and less maintenance and time efficient way... will provide a great boast to our cold doctrine and swift response to any threats... will be a great platform for our young pilots to learn too....
We need something like this for providing close air support for our ground forces.. Cost efficient and less maintenance and time efficient way... will provide a great boast to our cold doctrine and swift response to any threats... will be a great platform for our young pilots to learn too....
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Every thing will happen slowly..
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By the time we realize it would be toooo late over the technology and and war strategies...
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In that case you can blame bureaucratic, MOD and Supreme intelligent element in Army who are still debating " IS arty part of fire support or Fighting arm ? " Even a sane will go mad talking with these types..
So, Have patience..
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A 10 and the Su 25 are very good for CAS against mujahaden but against a modern army with good air defense they wouldn't last very long. The reason why the A10 was so successful in the first Iraq war was because all Iraqi air defenses were taken out in the first hours of the war, This surprised the US commanders so much so that initially most of the A 10,s were in National Guard service, they were then deployed in Iraq subsequently the demand was so high that many US commanders said they could not get enough aircraft.
USAF needs Super Tucano because of the nature of US military deployment, after ww 2 there has rarely been a time with US forces havent been involved in a war zone some where in the world, usually facing poorly equipped regulars or irregulars with very little air defense.... India's needs are different, the most likely military engagement that we will see are with China or Pakistan. In either case if we deploy planes like Super Tucano in CAS they will be swated from the sky like flies by stingers and other manpads.
There may be a small need for CT and COIN operations but politically using air power with in our own boarders has been an issue, in any case helos can be used for such operations.
USAF needs Super Tucano because of the nature of US military deployment, after ww 2 there has rarely been a time with US forces havent been involved in a war zone some where in the world, usually facing poorly equipped regulars or irregulars with very little air defense.... India's needs are different, the most likely military engagement that we will see are with China or Pakistan. In either case if we deploy planes like Super Tucano in CAS they will be swated from the sky like flies by stingers and other manpads.
There may be a small need for CT and COIN operations but politically using air power with in our own boarders has been an issue, in any case helos can be used for such operations.
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It is highly incorrect that the forces that US military faced are not armed with Light AD, In-fact there are more helo down coz of MANPADs in hands of unorganized insurgent..
Every well organised Army has defined structure, Regular infantry are not armed with MANPADS, They are attached with AD units to have anti-aircraft capability, In case of Kargil PA AD units were using MANPADs & 14.5mm HMG against IAF helos so does Jets..
The Word of 'downing like flies' can be very well suited to Pilots of cheetahs operated in Kargil, But in this case many cheetahs were targeted with MANPADS but the pilots always avoided them via maneuvers they can sustain, And these helos were not equipped with flairs, The mortal danger from MANPADs and AAA is same for a Helo so does a jet and a tubroprop at low altitude , But unlike Turbo-props can hinder this problem by flying above the ranges of MANPADS and AAA, And still can hit at pinpoint accuracy with LGBs..
One have to see how one use CAS for Ground troops, These Turbo-props can fly beyond the ranges of Manpads and AAA and can drop LGBs, Also can use cluster bombs in high speed runs ( 400km-500km/h same as jets ) over exposed tanks and Infantry, It can also lock and kill tanks with NAG ATGMs, Also one have to notice the loitering time, A jet or helo cannot give protection not more than 3 hours to 5 hours at most, But a tubo-prop can be above you more than 10 hours at straight ..
All these in lower operation cost than a Helo, Also not to mention unit price of these cheap birds, These Aircraft don't even need a dedicated Runways to fly nor the long runways as they are short take off and landings, Turbo Props are answer to hundreds problems and a Life saver for Men on the ground, More like Guardian angels of Indian army, These will do nothing but save lives of IA men..
This my point of view on the subject..
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bhramos
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IAF against Army aviation brigades
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has staunchly opposed the Army's move to constitute aviation brigades, that will comprise a squadron each of attack helicopters, in its various Army corps, saying the move is a violation of the current government policy dating back to 1986.
Well-placed sources told this newspaper, "A government policy document of 1986 clearly lays down the equipment that each service will have. The Army move to constitute aviation brigades with attack helicopters is neither feasible nor in line with current policy. When the IAF is providing all support in terms of attack helicopters, where is the need for this? Besides, the costs are prohibitive. Where is the money for all this?" Sources further added, "If the Army feels that it wants to go ahead with this plan, it should approach the government (for a change in policy). Otherwise, even some of the paramilitary organisations in future can come up with their own wish lists for attack helicopters and other equipment." The IAF, however, has supported the Navy's plans for enhancement of its aviation assets, saying the Navy's case is "justified since it has off-shore assets to guard". The IAF's objections to the Army's move show that the Army-IAF turf war over aviation assets is far from over. It also shows that amid talk of synergy, the Army and IAF are not on the same page on such an important issue which has strategic implications. It may be recalled that the Indian Army had recently validated the concept of "aviation brigades" in its latest battlefield exercise and now wants attack helicopters of its own to provide aerial support to its tanks and advancing troops in a battle scenario. The Army concept of aviation brigades was validated in the recently-held exercise Sudarshan Shakti. As per the Army's plans, each aviation brigade in future is to constitute three squadrons of helicopters. One squadron will comprise helicopters used for air-lifting heavy equipment, the second will be used for recce purposes while the third squadron in will perform the most crucial task of providing air support to the advancing battle-tanks.
IAF against Army aviation brigades | Deccan Chronicle
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has staunchly opposed the Army's move to constitute aviation brigades, that will comprise a squadron each of attack helicopters, in its various Army corps, saying the move is a violation of the current government policy dating back to 1986.
Well-placed sources told this newspaper, "A government policy document of 1986 clearly lays down the equipment that each service will have. The Army move to constitute aviation brigades with attack helicopters is neither feasible nor in line with current policy. When the IAF is providing all support in terms of attack helicopters, where is the need for this? Besides, the costs are prohibitive. Where is the money for all this?" Sources further added, "If the Army feels that it wants to go ahead with this plan, it should approach the government (for a change in policy). Otherwise, even some of the paramilitary organisations in future can come up with their own wish lists for attack helicopters and other equipment." The IAF, however, has supported the Navy's plans for enhancement of its aviation assets, saying the Navy's case is "justified since it has off-shore assets to guard". The IAF's objections to the Army's move show that the Army-IAF turf war over aviation assets is far from over. It also shows that amid talk of synergy, the Army and IAF are not on the same page on such an important issue which has strategic implications. It may be recalled that the Indian Army had recently validated the concept of "aviation brigades" in its latest battlefield exercise and now wants attack helicopters of its own to provide aerial support to its tanks and advancing troops in a battle scenario. The Army concept of aviation brigades was validated in the recently-held exercise Sudarshan Shakti. As per the Army's plans, each aviation brigade in future is to constitute three squadrons of helicopters. One squadron will comprise helicopters used for air-lifting heavy equipment, the second will be used for recce purposes while the third squadron in will perform the most crucial task of providing air support to the advancing battle-tanks.
IAF against Army aviation brigades | Deccan Chronicle
What is wrong in the Army having aviation assets? The Air OP has been with us for ages and now we are just expanding the role of the Army Aviation Corps. The corps will be addressing tactical issues on the battlefield, and shall leave the Air Force to address strategic issues.
On the lighterside IAF may feel the Army aviation will steel away oppprtunities like Longewala from them... Lol..
On the lighterside IAF may feel the Army aviation will steel away oppprtunities like Longewala from them... Lol..
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The Army need to access the air force facilities to control their aviation assets, further leverage on Army would be no good for IAF other then making it cucumbersome, army using CAS aircraft from an IAF field can be done otherwise by the IAF with no hassle, eliminating the need for an army personnel required for maintaining outside the area of operation of IAF upon IAF maintained field.
