Indian Army Artillery

[agentperry]

the IA will only get new life when NDA comes into power. the congress is so afraid of artillery. in this regard we desperately need NDA rule

 

[Kunal Biswas]

[h=1]Army's howitzer procurement plans run into rough weather[/h]New Delhi, Nov 9 (PTI) Indian army's plans to procure ultra-light howitzers for deployment along Sino-Indian border have run into rough weather and is expected to further delay its artillery modernisation programmme. After the 1987 Bofors gun deal controversy, army has not been able to induct even a single piece of artillery. Defence Ministry sources today said the process of procuring the M-777 guns from US-based BAE system has run into trouble. "Right now there is no progress in their procurement process," they said. The procurement of these guns hit the roadblock soon after their trials in Pokhran ranges in Rajasthan earlier this year after the leakage of the field trial reports, the sources said. As per Army's artillery modernisation programme, the procurement of 145 artillery guns was expected to begin by the end of this year. After certain objections from rival companies, the file regarding these guns were sent to the Law Ministry for its opinion, they said, adding that these guns are to be procured from the US under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) routes. Meanwhile, the procurement process for 155-mm, 52-caliber self-propelled wheeled howitzer guns has entered its final stages of technical evaluations with the completion of its field trials. Rhinemetall from Germany and Konstrukta from Slovakia are in the race to supply 180 of these guns to the army. (More)

Source: :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

 

[Kunal Biswas]

OFB 155MM/45CAL UPGRADE

 

[sob]

Howitzer purchase: MoD sets up panel - Indian Express

The Army's plan to buy howitzers from the US is likely to get a push with the Defence Ministry roping in DRDO head V K Saraswat for a recommendation on their purchase.

The deal had earlier got stuck after the ministry had second thoughts following the Army's report that M-777 ultra-light howitzers would not fully meet qualitative requirements.Sources said the committee headed by Saraswat will look into the trial reports of the gun and recommend whether to go forward with the purchase.

While the Army has already conveyed that the deviations from desired specifications are not very significant, the ministry has appointed the committee to get an independent view.

The panel's recommendation, expected shortly, is likely to be positive and will be forwarded to the Defence Acquisition Council that will decide on the procurement.

This is strange even when the Army has signaled it's acceptance our Babus have to appoint yet another committee to look into these allegations.

 

[Galaxy]

Army's howitzer procurement plans run into rough weather

Army's howitzer procurement plans run into rough weather



"‹New Delhi, Nov 9 (PTI) Indian army's plans to procure ultra-light howitzers for deployment along Sino-Indian border have run into rough weather and is expected to further delay its artillery modernisation programmme. After the 1987 Bofors gun deal controversy, army has not been able to induct even a single piece of artillery. Defence Ministry sources today said the process of procuring the M-777 guns from US-based BAE system has run into trouble. "Right now there is no progress in their procurement process," they said. The procurement of these guns hit the roadblock soon after their trials in Pokhran ranges in Rajasthan earlier this year after the leakage of the field trial reports, the sources said. As per Army's artillery modernisation programme, the procurement of 145 artillery guns was expected to begin by the end of this year. After certain objections from rival companies, the file regarding these guns were sent to the Law Ministry for its opinion, they said, adding that these guns are to be procured from the US under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) routes. Meanwhile, the procurement process for 155-mm, 52-caliber self-propelled wheeled howitzer guns has entered its final stages of technical evaluations with the completion of its field trials. Rhinemetall from Germany and Konstrukta from Slovakia are in the race to supply 180 of these guns to the army.

 

[Galaxy]

Howitzer purchase: MoD sets up panel

Posted: Thu Nov 10 2011, 03:52 hrs | New Delhi

The Army's plan to buy howitzers from the US is likely to get a push with the Defence Ministry roping in DRDO head V K Saraswat for a recommendation on their purchase.

The deal had earlier got stuck after the ministry had second thoughts following the Army's report that M-777 ultra-light howitzers would not fully meet qualitative requirements.

Sources said the committee headed by Saraswat will look into the trial reports of the gun and recommend whether to go forward with the purchase.

While the Army has already conveyed that the deviations from desired specifications are not very significant, the ministry has appointed the committee to get an independent view.

The panel's recommendation, expected shortly, is likely to be positive and will be forwarded to the Defence Acquisition Council that will decide on the procurement.

The procurement of 145 howitzers for an estimated $650 million through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route from the US got complicated due to a parallel acquisition process of 2009 that was stalled by the defence ministry after Singapore Technologies (ST) came under the scanner in the Ordnance Factory Board scam.

ST, which is under a CBI probe, obtained a stay from the Delhi High Court on the tender, contending that the purchase cannot be made as there is no evidence of wrongdoing.

Following this, the ministry decided to go in for a direct government-to-government contract with the US to purchase the guns. As reported, the Army is planning to raise a new Corps in Arunachal Pradesh to ramp up its presence.

The Army is optimistic of inking an agreement to ink the FMS purchase by this year-end.

Howitzer purchase: MoD sets up panel - Indian Express

 

[Naren1987]

About fucking time.

 

[pmaitra]

Too many spurious threads on the same issue. Why open a new thread when thread already exists?

http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-army/26749-india-cancels-wheeled-howitzer-purchase.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indian Army need light Arty to use over mountains..

M777 lack APU to move itself and dont have crane and auto reloading mechanism..

But we have same issue with M46 and its working good..



Wheeled Arty systems are smaller, less heavier, And fast needed for quick deployment via Air or Ground..

Track based Arty systems have better cross country mobility, And Armored..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Perfect Solution:

OFB have made successful 155mm/45cal barrel for up-gradation of all FH-70 and M46 in Indian army..
Without Any doubts and Problems the Organizations should use the same barrel for existing pending Projects Like:

Bhim

Catapult..

 

[SPIEZ]

Perfect Solution:

OFB have made successful 155mm/45cal barrel for up-gradation of all FH-70 and M46 in Indian army..
Without Any doubts and Problems the Organizations should use the same barrel for existing pending Projects Like:

Bhim

Catapult..

Any further information about this gun ?
Never knew that OFB manufactured Howitzers!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Any further information about this gun ?
Never knew that OFB manufactured Howitzers!

Its actually a 155mm of 45cal barrel..

First bought from IMI as part of 155mm upgrade kit for 130mm M46 guns..

Than OFB made a clone but had flaws, After that OFB made modifications and Now more than 180 guns are updated with 155mm/45cal barrel, It is also used to upgrade FH-77 39cal to 45cal..

Pics are posted in last page..

Ordnance Factory Board

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1. Bhim: Update it with 155mm/45cal gun..
2. BMP SPGH: Update it with 122mm D 30 gun instead of IFG 105MM..

 

[bhramos]

The M777 Portee is based on a revolutionary M777 howitzer adopted by the US Army

 

[bengalraider]

1. Bhim: Update it with 155mm/45cal gun..
2. BMP SPGH: Update it with 122mm D 30 gun instead of IFG 105MM..

actually fixing the 155/45 cal onto the existing Bhim would be a degradation not an updation, our OFB 155/45 is nowhere as capable a gun as the DENEL T-6.

As for mounting the D30 onto the BMP , not possible because the chassis simply cannot take the stress generated by the D30 firing, we'll need to completey redesign the BMp into a far more capable platform if we want to mount the D30 on it.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

actually fixing the 155/45 cal onto the existing Bhim would be a degradation not an updation, our OFB 155/45 is nowhere as capable a gun as the DENEL T-6.

As for mounting the D30 onto the BMP , not possible because the chassis simply cannot take the stress generated by the D30 firing, we'll need to completey redesign the BMp into a far more capable platform if we want to mount the D30 on it.

I would call it degradation if denel was not ban, But its Ban and we have a alternative..

155mm/52cal = 40km (with ERFB BB round) 52-56,000 m (BB+RAP extended range)
OFB 155mm/45cal = 40km (with ERFB BB round) only

52-calibre refers to the barrel length, so it is slightly more than 1 meter longer than at 45-calibre barrel (155mm x 7 for the difference in length between the two, roughly). All else being equal, this means the propellant has more space and thus more time to combust and for the resulting gas to expand before the projectile leaves the tube, imparting more energy to the projectile, resulting in longer range. (Depending on a variety of factors, you could say an additional 10km though )Depending on your design, and what propellant you fire, the tube may wear out and need to be replaced sooner, if you make a habit of firing the higher charges used to attain that extra range..

Presently as we know Bhim does not have its barrel, and Denel is banned and will remain ban for long time to come, In this period we developed a good 155mm/45cal barrel reach 40kms, And we desperately needed SPGH, Bhim is ready without barrel, Better than nothing in hands now..




Regarding D30 on BMP-2, The recoil of 105ifg is also no less, D-30 are use over wheeled vehicles, Their is no tests done yet its not difficult ..

 

[bengalraider]

@Kunal- Range alone does not a good gun make, I know the DENEL gun is banned and i believe i have been one of the more vociferous opponents of this ban on this forum and others! The thing is we at the moment do not have a gun in the OFB metamorphosis that is capable of MRSI operation and neither does it have the kind of integrated electronics package a modern gun system needs in order to perform satisfactorily, the OFB gun though a good gun is presently a bare bones towed FG that will need many months(if not years) of further refinement and development before it is an integrated weapons turret package comparable to the T6.AFAIK what the IA and DRDO is looking for is a complety integrated gun turrett and not just a gun.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@Kunal- Range alone does not a good gun make, The thing is we at the moment do not have a gun in the OFB metamorphosis that is capable of MRSI operation and neither does it have the kind of integrated electronics package a modern gun system needs in order to perform satisfactorily, the OFB gun though a good gun is presently a bare bones towed FG that will need many months(if not years) of further refinement and development before it is an integrated weapons turret package comparable to the T6.AFAIK what the IA and DRDO is looking for is a complety integrated gun turrett and not just a gun.

I was talking specifically abt the Integration of 155mm/45cal barrel into Bhim and Others..

Gun aka Barrel does not feature MRSI but Its the software in balletic computer that calculate MRSI ops and DRDO have it, It was presented in BMP-2 based SPGH also T6 have it, And the present bofors we also has MRSI..

In Defexpo 2010 i came to know via talking a DRDO official that T6 turret is ready without the Barrel coz barrel Tot never occurred, We have a good barrel of 155mm /45cal that can be integrated into Bhim and others, Its a universal solution when we need so desperately..

Its something needed to be done long time back..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The 155mm/45cal barrel is tested and Orders are to upgrade all FH-77 in IA..

Presently more than 200 M46 of 130mm/46 caliber update with 155MM/45cal..

And More are in the line..

 

[bengalraider]

I was talking specifically abt the Integration of 155mm/45cal barrel into Bhim and Others..

Gun aka Barrel does not feature MRSI but Its the software in balletic computer that calculate MRSI ops and DRDO have it, It was presented in BMP-2 based SPGH also T6 have it, And the present bofors we also has MRSI..

In Defexpo 2010 i came to know via talking a DRDO official that T6 turret is ready without the Barrel coz barrel Tot never occurred, We have a good barrel of 155mm /45cal that can be integrated into Bhim and others, Its a universal solution when we need so desperately..

Its something needed to be done long time back..

au contraire my dear friend the barrel is an important part of MRSI as the barrel has to take the stress of rapidly firing a number of rounds in quick succession so that they all impact on the target at the same time, also the computerised motorised hydrualics that enable the barrel to be traversed rapidly to differnet angles enabling the same Time of flight of shells fired in succesion are also a part of it.these are both things the M-46 Metamorphosis currently lacks.
aslo the 105mm SPH also lacks all that DRDO plans to provide it but all these plans have yet to see fruition.

Strange that the DRDO guys would give you that story because the story i got at the very same show was that we were looking at integrating a completely new weapons package onto the Bhim chassis, names given included the Korean K9 Thunder , the singaporean SSPH1 and an Indian upgunned variant of the Polish KRAB turret(which is itself a version of the British AS90 turret), the PZH2000 turret was also mentioned, however i believ all those plans have since come to naught.