Indian Army Artillery

[Tuco]

If that was my bottle, meri mummy ne mujhe jaan se maar dena tha.

(query for everyone) What advantage does gps guided rounds hold over laser guided ones ? Interms of direct infantry support laser guided sounds like a much better solution.

A guy will not get a chance to play laser tag.

 

[DumbPilot]

(query for everyone) What advantage does gps guided rounds hold over laser guided ones ? Interms of direct infantry support laser guided sounds like a much better solution.

I think it depends on your use case.

As an example: If your infantry is requesting artillery, you can fire off laser guided shells as they guide the shells using either drone or handheld laser. Laser would make sense there, since only the troops know exactly where they need to be hit.

If you want to hit something un-moving and far away that it is not able to be guided by laser, use GPS. Like doing ISR, discovering enemy ammo concentrations, and blasting them with artillery shells/guided rockets.

 

[Chinmoy]

I know it’s old news but, but this is pathetic: Make-2 so no funding for R&D and projected acquisition of under 200 units per year for 10 years. No wonder OFB was showing an arts and craft project model in DefExpo.

Cost of one guided shell is minimum 6 times that the cost of a conventional shell. How many guided shell are you going to fire in such case?

On funding part, CCF has already been worked upon by AMP and DRDO. After that it has been put under Make-II. If private industries can't even doll out money on such project, then we should stop promoting them IMO.

 

[Chinmoy]

(query for everyone) What advantage does gps guided rounds hold over laser guided ones ? Interms of direct infantry support laser guided sounds like a much better solution.

If your sensors are good, a GPS guided round has lot less dependency then a Laser guided one.

 

[indiatester]

The trend that we see is mass mechanization across the board.From infantry to artillery.Reviewing the war in ukraine and lessons from ladakh standoff ,army understood without mechanization(except in very broken mountain terrain) we are essentially an obsolete force.We even saw infantry on electric bikes for broken terrain.

Hope the forces realize that PR is important too!

 

[mist_consecutive]

Dhanush in serial production

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

If that was my bottle, meri mummy ne mujhe jaan se maar dena tha.

(query for everyone) What advantage does gps guided rounds hold over laser guided ones ? Interms of direct infantry support laser guided sounds like a much better solution.

Rather simple - No laser needed. No limitation of working in clear weather etc. No limitartion on line of sight hits. No limitation in areas where we dont even have troops - Roll up atags close to frontline and hit CnC nodes 40km behind it.

 

[The Shrike]

Cost of one guided shell is minimum 6 times that the cost of a conventional shell. How many guided shell are you going to fire in such case?

On funding part, CCF has already been worked upon by AMP and DRDO. After that it has been put under Make-II. If private industries can't even doll out money on such project, then we should stop promoting them IMO.

At ~2000 rounds total after 10 years, you will have around 1 round per 155mm tube assuming FARP is goes through, or around 3 rounds per tube considered present numbers. The inventory needs to be an order of magnitude more for a high tempo large scale conflict.
Does CCF have terminal (laser) guidance too? IMO these are separate programs.

 

[Chinmoy]

At ~2000 rounds total after 10 years, you will have around 1 round per 155mm tube assuming FARP is goes through, or around 3 rounds per tube considered present numbers. The inventory needs to be an order of magnitude more for a high tempo large scale conflict.
Does CCF have terminal (laser) guidance too? IMO these are separate programs.

The original requirement of TBM is 33,372 rounds. The EOI shared over here is the initial requirement for domestic industries for capability buildup. It has been kept under Cat-II so that manufacturer or developer has the flexibility to opt for JV with foreign OEM if required and by the end of order completion, could absorb the tech for next phase. In case of emergency, the order number could be increased as per need. You don't keep your manufacturing industry on overdrive 24/7 without an order book to fill up.

Now coming to CCF part. The primary requirement is of satellite guidance rather then Laser guidance. Laser guidance has been kept as more of an optional parameter here along with MMW and IR seeker which again has been developed by DRDO.

Technical Parameters.

30. Guidance System. Primary mode of Guidance will be through GPS/ IRNSS/GLONASS. Secondary mode of guidance in addition to the primary mode may be through MMW/LASER/IR.

So the building blocks for the ammo is already there. Now its upto the production agency to choose the way they want to take. Either way, they would get 10 years for capability buildup.

 

[rvats]

Do note, I am talking with my limited understanding of the subject. Its not like I have studied these topics formally, so viewer discretion advised. Members like @Bhadra @rvats and @mist_consecutive are more informed on these things.

That's a very good effort to elucidate the role of infantry in various formats.

Just a couple of points:

(1) There are two broad concepts - one is mechanized infantry and the other is motorized infantry.

(2) As you've already mentioned, mechanized infantry is one which is equipped with Infantry or Armored Fighting Vehicle (Tracked) or IFV/AFV (Wheeled). Our FICV is IFV (Tracked) replacement for BMP-2 while Kestrel is a candidate for IFV (Wheeled).

(3) Motorized infantry is equipped with vehicles which provide organic transport under limited protection. The watered down Kestrel (Infantry Protected Mobility Vehicle), Kalyani M4 and TATA MPV are all examples of platforms for use by Motorized infantry.

(4) Motorized Infantry is a term which was popularized by the Soviet Red Army. They had mechanized infantry battalions and brigades and divisions equipped with BMP-1 and BMP-2 and Motorized Infantry Battalions/Brigades/Divisions equipped with BTR-60 series of vehicles.

(5) General Sundarji's Army Plan 2000 called for 4 x Armored Divisions, 8 x Mechanized Divisions and 7 x RAPID plus mountain divisions.

(6) RAPID consists of 1 x Armored Brigade (2 x Tank Regiments + 2 x Armored Regiments) and 2 or 3 infantry brigades.

(7) While the Armored Brigade has full mobility, the Infantry brigades are hamstrung in terms of organic x-country mobility to keep pace with the armored brigade.

(8) Indian Army has been using 4x4 TATRA high mobility vehicles for these infantry brigades to provide them x-country mobility. But at the end of the day, these are soft-skinned vehicles with no protection.

(9) So how do you balance out mobility aspect of a RAPID? Convert the infantry brigades into motorized brigades. Where battalions are equipped with organic platforms like IPMV, M4 of MPV (depending on terrain, task and challenges).

(10) Compared to creating a full fledged mechanized infantry divisions, this is a low cost option for provide mobility to your troops.

(11) Plus, the platforms can be equipped with RCWS, ability to fire an ATGM from under the vehicle, mobile mortar platforms, loitering ammunition, drones and a mix of light tanks or AFV (Wheeled). Your standard infantry battalion suddenly transforms into a powerful unit with mobility, ISR assets and stand-off capability.

*Each Stryker Battalion was supposed to get 9 x Stryker Mounted Gun System (MGS) which was basically a Stryker APC with 105mm gun (a light tank by all means).

(12) A hypothetical IBG for eastern Ladakh could be 1 x Mechanized Infantry Regiment + 2 x Motorized Infantry Regiments + Other support units.

(13) One more data point for you - Procurement of Wheeled IFVs is being done by Director General Mechanized Forces (DGMF) while IPMV, K4 and MPV is being done by DG Infantry. This tells you the planned use and employment of these formations.

 

[shaileshmd]

Ukraine has been using the US supplied HIMAR artillery system very effectively. Supposedly this guided rockets are able to hit targets up to 300 miles(?). India should acquire a bunch of these systems. I believe it has been a game changer for the Russian-Ukraine war.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Ukraine has been using the US supplied HIMAR artillery system very effectively. Supposedly this guided rockets are able to hit targets up to 300 miles(?). India should acquire a bunch of these systems. I believe it has been a game changer for the Russian-Ukraine war.

India already has Pranash and Pralay SSM in the 200-250km and 150-500km category respectively, there is simply no need to import ATACMS

 

[another_armchair]

Ukraine has been using the US supplied HIMAR artillery system very effectively. Supposedly this guided rockets are able to hit targets up to 300 miles(?). India should acquire a bunch of these systems. I believe it has been a game changer for the Russian-Ukraine war.

The real game changer(s) are the kamikaze drones, particularly the Lancet-3 and its insane success rate.

The cost/reward is skewed so much in favor of the Lancet-3 and others.

 

[shaileshmd]

The real game changer(s) are the kamikaze drones, particularly the Lancet-3 and its insane success rate.

The cost/reward is skewed so much in favor of the Lancet-3 and others.

Approximately 90 percent of the Iranian drones are shot down using UK and US supplied anti drone weapon systems.

 

[another_armchair]

Approximately 90 percent of the Iranian drones are shot down using UK and US supplied anti drone weapon systems.

Based my conclusion it on the footage of the remaining 10% that got away.

How many bullets are fired by troops in combat before getting an actual kill? Soldiers don't stop firing at the enemy for fear of missing, do they?

 

[prateikf]

Bharat Forge bags US $155 contract to sell 155 mm truck mounted artillery to Armenia

www.ajaishukla.com

Another great news that Armenia has selected Bharat Forge MArG for its army.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Bharat Forge bags US $155 contract to sell 155 mm truck mounted artillery to Armenia

www.ajaishukla.com

Another great news that Armenia has selected Bharat Forge MArG for its army.

are you sure about the country and the product?

 

[prateikf]

are you sure about the country and the product?

Yes, as per Ajay Shukla the MOD has confirmed the country is Armenia. Regarding the product too Bharat Forge has only 1 truck mounted howitzer in the specified calibre.

 

[prateikf]

The MArG system weighing at just 18 tons is unique in every way and most suitable for mountain warfare in Armenia. Hope it will be inducted in Indian army too.

 

[Love Charger]

The MArG system weighing at just 18 tons is unique in every way and most suitable for mountain warfare in Armenia. Hope it will be inducted in Indian army too.

View attachment 181295

It was made on insistence on late Cds general Bipin rawat sir