Indian Army Artillery

bengalraider

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Denel shatters artillery records

In a continuing drive to improve its acknowledged lead in tubed artillery systems, Denel managed to fire to 75 kilometres last week, shattering all previous artillery records.

http://www.defesanet.com.br/tecno/denel_2_e.htm
The MoD needs to look seriously at De-listing DENEL from the list of blacklisted firms, I have said so before and will say so again the DENEL"T-6" was and is the best choice for the Bhim .
 

sesha_maruthi27

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I think DENEL has not given enough kick-backs, may be this the reason for the Defence Minister to black list the firm.:emot15::emot15::emot15:
 

JBH22

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Denel artillery projects got the guidance of the famed Gerald Bull so its no surprise that they produce a good if not very good arty piece.I agree that MoD should give Bhim a chance it would make a great SP (Arjun chassis+T6).
 

prateikf

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by blacklisting Denel we caused a loss of at least a 1000 crore to BEML which had already assembled the facilities to produce the BHIM, the artillery modernisation continues to be in a limbo even today with no end in sight, the Nalanda factory meant to produce artillery shells still lies incomplete. our politicians are so short sighted
 

Kunal Biswas

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by blacklisting Denel we caused a loss of at least a 1000 crore to BEML which had already assembled the facilities to produce the BHIM, the artillery modernisation continues to be in a limbo even today with no end in sight, the Nalanda factory meant to produce artillery shells still lies incomplete. our politicians are so short sighted
1000cr was not lost, The assemble line for Bhim SPH will be use for making Himalaya and Zuzuna2 SPH if successful..

I hope we don't get more reports of Bans Specially Slovaks..

After so long someone ToT the 52cal barrel, and talks of SPHs..
 

nitesh

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corss post

http://www.dailypioneer.com/286735/India’s-own-Bofors-ready-field-trials-in-progress.html

In a significant development that would provide the much-needed impetus to artillery's firepower, India is ready with an indigenous 155mm, 52-calibre state-of-the-art gun. The Bangalore-based defence public sector undertaking, Bharat Earth Movers Limited, is ready with the wheeled gun and field trials have already started at its testing tracks in the Kolar Gold Fields (KGF), Karnataka.
He also said, "For the wheeled gun project, we have tied up with a Slovakian company, DMD, for a defence offset and the vehicle has already been made available for trial.

The time frame is about three years from the date of order by the defence forces. We expect it to commence in the current year or at most the next year."

According to the BEML chief, the company was also looking at the tracked version of the same gun, which will give better fire power. "We have already set up a state-of-the-art, world-class test track. We have a firing range too," Natarajan said, adding that the PSU was also in the process of setting up infrastructure for the overhauling of T72 and T90 tanks.
 

nitesh

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prateikf

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the deal was for 145 ULH right? how come it has risen to 300? if it really has risen to 300 it is indeed an good move
 

Kunal Biswas

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the deal was for 145 ULH right? how come it has risen to 300? if it really has risen to 300 it is indeed an good move
Actually IA wanted to test M777 at high altitudes like NE and J&K, the reports of success are secret and the news of additional 300 was a move after the green light from IA, This report conforms it..
 

Patriot

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Indian Army Conducts Trials of BAE Systems M777 Howitzers reports Press Trust of India



2010-10-26 Press Trust of India quotes unnamed American government officials saying that India was keen on buying 145 M777 howitzers from the United States and the guns were put on trial in India last week. With India's artillery procurements getting delayed, New Delhi had expressed its interest to the US to buy the guns for which US Congress approval had been sought.

"We are now moving towards more military sales" they added. The officials also noted that the Indo-U.S. military relationship was "matured and well evolved," and not based on one transaction. "It is based on exchanges. This is not a relationship, it is partnership," they said, pointing out that U.S. military exercises with India was the "biggest" the Americans held. India's Army, Navy, Air Force and Special Forces hold frequent exercises with the US counterparts.

The M777 howitzer is a towed artillery piece manufactured by BAE Systems' Global Combat Systems division. Prime contract management is based in Barrow-in-Furness in the UK as well as manufacture and assembly of the titanium structures and associated recoil components. Final integration and testing of the weapon is undertaken at BAE's facility in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.





http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4676
 

Anshu Attri

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Boom of guns and business battle
- Singapore firm speaks out after sikkim trial of us arms

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101028/jsp/frontpage/story_13110372.jsp
New Delhi, Oct. 27: Somewhere in Sikkim this week, the hills are echoing with the thunder of American "flying cannons" firing volley after volley of Indian ammunition — not to start a war with China, but in the hope of winning a Rs 2,900-crore ($650 million) order.

In the Indian Army's high-altitude firing range, artillery officers are supervising what they call "confirmatory trials" of the BAE Land Systems 155mm/39cal M777 ultra-light howitzers even as the foreign and defence ministries in New Delhi look for a big idea — such as a multi-million-dollar cheque — to add zing to Barack Obama's India visit.

The deal for the "flying cannons" — so-called because the ultra-light howitzers weighing just about 4.2 tonnes each can be underslung and flown by some helicopters — is already a minor victory for the Pentagon. The M777 uses titanium and aluminium alloys to keep its weight low.

Whether the contract is signed during the presidential visit or not has become secondary. The Singaporean rival vying for the order has complained and cried foul but both the Indian defence ministry and the Pentagon have decided the deal will be pushed through.

The army wants the guns to equip six new Indian artillery regiments — the initial order will be for 145 howitzers — being raised especially for the China border.

Last week, a senior US government official confirmed, two of the BAE Land Systems-made M777 ultra-light howitzers landed in Delhi. They were then flown to Sikkim.

The aircraft carrying the guns overflew Gwalior where a gun of the same category — called the Pegasus, after the winged horse of Greek mythology, has been idled.

The Pegasus is made by Singapore Technologies Kinetics (STK) that is swinging in the grey area of a blacklist and a ban after the defence ministry asked the CBI to probe its links with former chief of the Ordnance Factory Board, Sudipto Ghosh.

STK's chief marketing officer, Brigadier General Patrick Choy, has written to the defence ministry more than twice asking for an opportunity to be heard. Now, he does not mind going public.

"Our gun was on the firing line for the trials last year when suddenly it was asked to be withdrawn," he told The Telegraph over phone from Washington DC. "We have not been given an explanation and our gun is still in India and now we hear that the M777 is being tried," he said.

"I have written to the MoD (ministry of defence) expressing my frustration — there doesn't seem to be a level playing field. Why have I been blocked from the competition? But there has been no response," said Patrick.

But Indian Army officials — and BAE sources — say that the M777 has been ready for trials for long. Last year, one of the trials got deferred after the Indian Army said the Pegasus was yet to be calibrated to fire Indian ammunition.

The government then re-tendered but earlier this year the defence secretary, Pradip Kumar, said India was considering procurement of the M777 through the Pentagon's Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, a direct government-to-government transaction that effectively bypasses competition.

Even now, as the gun is being evaluated, senior officers call it a "confirmatory trial", a phrase that conveys both a confirmation of the order and the testing of the guns.

Asked why the test if the order is confirmed, an official said: "We wanted to check its performance in Indian conditions." The guns were also tried in the Rajasthan desert in summer.

The M777 is used by the US Marine Corps, Canadian and Australian armed forces and is currently deployed in Afghanistan. The Indian Army projected the need for ultra-light howitzers from a lesson learnt in the 1999 Kargil war — to deploy big guns faster in high altitude.

Despite the controversy dogging the process of the selection, the army is simply relieved that the government is inclined to place the order because it has not added a single big gun to its arsenal since the Bofors FH77 in 1987.

In a notification to Congress, the Pentagon's sales wing has said: "The (M777) howitzers will assist the Indian Army to develop and enhance standardisation and to improve interoperability with US soldiers and Marines who use the M777 as their primary means of indirect fire."

Needless to say, the Indian order will also generate jobs in the M777's assembly plant in Mississippi.

BAE Land Systems, that has a joint venture in India with Mahindra & Mahindra, is also in competition with STK for an order of towed howitzers of the 155mm/52cal. BAE has fielded the FH77B05, a modernised version of the Bofors gun that was seen in action in the 1999 Kargil war, and STK was in the competition with its iFH 2000. But a frustrated STK, whose Indian partner is Punj Lloyd, has flown-out the gun that it had brought for the trials to India.
 

nitesh

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^^

from the above news item, we will be buying guns, and spare support, but ammunition will be ours? Isn't this will be major cost saving for us, and blow to pocket of the exporter
 

nitesh

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http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20101103/edit.htm#6
Artillery and aviation are force multipliers, giving commanders enhanced firepower to strike in the enemy's depth. The modernisation of these two vital arms continues to hang fire, affecting the military's overall combat potential
Elusive Guns
Brig S.K. Chatterji (Retd)



The Chinese have created enough infrastructure in Tibet and linked up their assets on the plateau with Pakistan through the Karakorum highway. The enhanced capabilities have forced the articulation of a possible two front war that we may be faced with, someday. The acceptance of such a threat has impacted on our otherwise slow decision making process adequately enough to speed up infrastructure development in the Northeast and raising of two additional infantry divisions. However, a critical component that is central to realisation of full combat potential of our army, remains unaddressed, largely. We have not been able to procure a single artillery gun since we purchased 400-odd Bofors 155mm Howitzers 25 years ago.

At the moment we are saddled with guns of various calibers and indifferent vintage in our inventory. The Indian 105mm Field Gun and its lighter variant for the mountains are the basic field guns. The Russian 130mm guns are the backbone of our medium artillery, with the Swedish Bofors 155mm howitzers, complimenting them. We also have the 120mm mortars that need an upgrade. There is a smattering of other calibers that make little or no difference to the larger inventory.

Our approach to selection of guns has been in tune with most modern armies that are switching to 155mm caliber as the basic equipment. Standardisation of caliber has definite payoffs in terms of logistics to include the aspects of production, storage and transportation of ammunition. It allows flexibility and transfer of ammunition, especially in the operational area, from a neighbouring fire unit to another fire unit running out of ammunition, thus keeping the intensity of firepower delivery at the rates called for.

Recognising the need for both standardisation and upgradation of equipment, the Ministry of Defence had approved the artillery modernisation plan. However, all efforts at procurement lie in tatters, now. The contracts worth approximately Rs 1,900 crore being pursued for approximately 2,000 pieces of 155 mm guns, have all but been dumped. Four variants of 155 mm guns were being sought, the largest segment of which was the towed variety comprising approximately 1,850 guns. The balance was constituted of ultra-lights howitzers for employment in mountainous terrain, tracked self-propelled guns for mechanised battle groups in the desert and wheeled self-propelled models.

Almost every gun manufacturer globally, capable of manufacturing such sophisticated guns has been black listed by us on some or the other grounds. However, none of the cases has been taken to its logical conclusion. The fact of whom did they collude with and who were the officials who received the favours, has been the sole secret that seems to have been preserved, in a country where leaks do not pile up to the volumes of Wikileaks. They flow regularly as breaking news.

Notwithstanding the setbacks that it has experienced, the artillery has had some substantial accretions in the past few years. The upgradation of fairly large numbers of 130mm guns to 155mm caliber has been undertaken satisfactorily. Our rocket artillery was limited to 122 mm Grad 40 barrel launchers for ages. The indigenous Pinaca and the Russian Smerch rocket systems have extended our reach to 40 and 90km, respectively. Both systems are capable of devastating firepower.

We have also inducted the unarmed aerial vehicles of Israeli origin that serve the purposes of intelligence gathering, direction of own artillery fire as also damage assessment. The induction of better weapon locating radars has definitely given us an edge in locating enemy artillery. These systems are also capable of directing accurate fire of our guns to neutralise hostile guns. The artillery command and control systems and battlefield surveillance systems are also maturing, paving the way for greater synchronisation of artillery assets as also speedier and informed decision making.

Induction of the Prithvi ballistic missile systems has been a shot in the arm in as far as long range engagement is concerned. The BrahMos will be a huge leap, once inducted. Being a cruise missile undertaking most of the flight path at very low altitudes, almost hugging the ground, these are difficult to detect by even the most technologically advanced armies. As such, their chances of surviving enemy countermeasures are definitely far superior. Our capability of long range target detection through the unarmed aerial vehicles has also enhanced considerably with the protracted endurance of these systems while in flight. Combined with bonuses that accrue from the maturing of the battlefield surveillance systems and artillery command, control and communication capabilities, fuller utilisation of artillery assets is definitely possible.

However, the basic workhorse of the artillery remains a good gun and we have been most inept on that score. The Bofors scam continues to haunt both the political leadership and bureaucracy. The problem is compounded by our unwillingness to probe scams and punish those who continue to trade on the sides.

In the final count it can be said that we have the requisite numbers when it comes to guns. Numbers by themselves, however, do not mean capability. Accepting any DRDO proposals at this stage for an indigenous 155 mm gun system will lead to greater delay and consequent gaping holes in defences. If required, the foreign military sales route needs can be adopted, even if we have to pay a premium, and thus ensure systemic corruption does not enfeeble our defence forces. The private sector needs to be brought into the core of the process and build its strengths for indigenisation, hereafter.
 

Kunal Biswas

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So many types, So many calibers, logistic nightmare proved in Kargil...

1. Infantry..
2. Arty..
3. Army-aviation..

The whole army is living in 70s..
Need URGENT up-gradation!
 

jayz india

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a million dollar question

will india buy any artillery gun during the life cycle of most of us?????
by the way i am just 23
 

maomao

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BAE Systems M777 Howitzer procurement by India

BAE Systems set to win $650 million M777 howitzer deal with India

BAE Land Systems 155mm/39cal M777 ultra-light howitzers is undergoing what is dubbed in the Indian media as "confirmatory trials", which means that if the howitzer passes the test, the Indian MOD will place the order for 145 howitzers on the U.S. made system without going through the tendering process.


The M777 howitzer will be sold under the U.S. foreign military sales (FMS) route through a possible government-to-government deal.

The confirmatory trials are said to be taking place in the northern state of Sikkim, which borders China. The deal for the 155mm/59cal howitzers is worth an estimated $650 million and two of the guns have been sent to Sikkim for trials.

Speculation is rife that the M777 howitzer deal with be signed, or at least confirmed to be signed at a later date, during the visit of U.S. President Barak Obama who is scheduled to visit India in the second week of November 2010.

India had earlier announced a tender for the light howitzer deal but the only other bidder, Singapore Technologies was blacklisted from doing business with the MOD on grounds that it was involved in a bribery base. Singapore Technologies Kinetics had fielded its Pegasus howitzer and had brought it for possible trials in India. However, even before the howitzer could be tested, Singapore Technologies found itself fired from India.

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensenews.jsp?catid=3&id=5185&h=BAE%20Systems%20%20$650%20million%20M777%20howitzer%20deal%20with%20India
 

shuvo@y2k10

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this is yet another example of a big ticket deal going to US without even entering the trial process.the indian armed forces are behaving like kalidas and 5 years down the line they are going to realize that without after sales support from US these billions of dollars of purchases are going to waste since india has signed the eum which prohibits it to modify the equipments based on requirement from sources other than oem.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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4000 artillery was indian army's assets mainly for a pakistan centric warin 1986.to counter a two front war with china and pakistan now india needs at least 20 corps with the addition of 3 more mountain strike corps along lac and 12,500 artillery(indcluding mbrl) apart from mortars. in order to acheive this no. the drdo should develop a 155m howitzers and mass produce it
 
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