Indian Army Artillery

[ppgj]

If there is a likelyhood of WLR,

sir, WLRs are already there.

Pakistan has WLRs. infact they inducted first (AN/TPQ 36). India only inducted later post imports from the US (12 AN/TPQ 37) - a slightly advanced version post 2002. later drdo designed WLRs were/are being inducted.

..:: India Strategic ::... Indian Army acquiring 28 indigenous Weapon Locating Radars

then the guns will be more spread out on the ground. This is a commanders decision when they find out about the enemy threat. At the moment, there isn't much need for having scoot ability because where Artillery is deployed by most forces, there isn't WLR.

sir, in the mountainous region WLRs may not be that effective. hence "spotters" in addition to WLRs are used. so i agree on your point.

but my question was wrt to plains and when the respective guns are "within the range". if "scooting" is not needed how will they avoid the counter fire??

One round should be enough to get an approximate position. The second adjusting round would confirm it.

thanks. what constitutes a "single" round?? how many shells are fired in a single round??

If you think about shooting outside of the 'scoot', it would take 10 times more rounds to do cover the larger area, this isn't viable, and could mean hitting civilian targets.

yes. beyond "scoot" travel the loss of ammunition for the enemy will be quite high and sort of counter productive besides they give away their own positions.

To be more Precise :

1. It takes one rd only for a WLR to produce a 13 figure grid solution. A WLR, on average, will take about 0.4 sec to determine the point of origin and the point of impact (it depends on the system at what range).

thanks. then the only solution is to fire from a range beyond the enemy's gun range to make any impact.

i was under the impression an enemy WLR can only triangulate post a salvo of multiple rounds.

As for how many rounds you can fire depends on your weapon-system and on the flight time of the rds fired by the CBF unit.

how many rounds can be fired from our field guns before they need to be cooled??

2. This depends largely on the weapon systems and doctrine of the adversary.

yes but since our adversaries have WLRs "scoot" is a necessity IMO. is it not sir?? unless ofcourse we are out of range of the enemy??

3. If you move for, say 500m, it will take an immense amount of ordnance to cover this circular area with a radius of 500m. At which point it will become uneconomical to blindly, and arbitrarily, plaster areas with ordnance (unless you can afford it by having huge amounts of CBF units available of course).

agree sir.

For Example: After receiving the fire order where we move up to the firing location, fire 8 rds and are on the move again (with SPH) in a high intensity environment against a adversary that has the same capabilities as we do or is better equipped.

:happy_2:

 

[prateikf]

..:: India Strategic ::.. Defence Industry: India will pay 3.8 percent on all FMS deals with US

this is exactly the commission paid to sales agents that people frothed in the mouth about and blacklisted many. only in this case the GOVT ofUS itself is the dalal and arbiter! so it gets paid extra acting as sales agent for its own weapons industry and recycles part of this to willing politicians in buyer countries. wow.

Would have been comic if it wasn't tragic. If only this commonsense of keeping a commision openly was used in other deals, we would have had the 155mm in loads and the Bhim would been roaming the Indian plains... But today we are without any modern artillery with china and pak crawling all over.
the so called mr. anotny's clean image is just a drama. he pays in millions in commissions to the americans for second class equipments like the helicopters on INS Jalashawa while blacklisting all the possible artillery manufacturers on extremely flimsy charges.

 

[nitesh]

..:: India Strategic ::.. Defence Industry: India will pay 3.8 percent on all FMS deals with US

this is exactly the commission paid to sales agents that people frothed in the mouth about and blacklisted many. only in this case the GOVT ofUS itself is the dalal and arbiter! so it gets paid extra acting as sales agent for its own weapons industry and recycles part of this to willing politicians in buyer countries. wow.

Would have been comic if it wasn't tragic. If only this commonsense of keeping a commision openly was used in other deals, we would have had the 155mm in loads and the Bhim would been roaming the Indian plains... But today we are without any modern artillery with china and pak crawling all over.
the so called mr. anotny's clean image is just a drama. he pays in millions in commissions to the americans for second class equipments like the helicopters on INS Jalashawa while blacklisting all the possible artillery manufacturers on extremely flimsy charges.

Here you are again with the same rhetoric, what ever you have said the report does not mentions it. Prove what ever you are saying, I am repeating again don't try to score a political goal here.
prove what ever you are saying

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Antony's South Korea visit to boost defence ties

India, S Korea sign 5-year defence co-op agreement

India and South Korea today entered into a five-year defence cooperation accord by signing two memorandums of understandings on sharing of military expertise and technology.

Defence Minister A K Antony and his Korean counterpart Kim Tae-Young signed the two agreements in Seoul during the former's two-day official visit there.

"Heralding a new chapter in the history of defence cooperation, India and South Korea today signed two landmark Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to give a huge boost to the Strategic Partnership between the two countries," Defence Ministry spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said in a release from Seoul.

The two MoUs were signed at the end of nearly 90-minute intensive discussions between the delegations of the two countries, he said.

After the signing of the agreements, Antony said New Delhi would be happy to see the defence industry relationship to be "more than a buyer-seller relationship" and its further evolution into Transfer of Technology, joint production and joint Research and Development.

He expressed the hope that his visit would start a new chapter in the already close relationship between the two nations.

Kim, in his address, said the two MoUs would provide a "win-win scenario" for the two countries in a number of areas.

This was the first-ever visit of an India Defence Minister to South Korea.

Antony is accompanied by a high-level delegation that includes Defence Secretary Pradeep Kumar, Navy Vice Admiral R K Dhowan, Army Lieutenant General K T Parnaik, DRDO's Dr Prahlada and Adviser to Defence Minister Sundaram Krishna.

The first MoU envisaged exchange of defence-related experience and information, mutual exchange and visits by military personnel and experts including civilian staff associated with defence services, military education and training and conduct of military exercises, exchange visits of ships and aircraft, as jointly decided between the two countries, Kar said.

The MoU also provided for cooperation in humanitarian assistance and international peace-keeping activities.

"The MoU will remain valid for a period of five years with provision for its extension by five more years," he said.

We may see our own K9 tracked SPH..
or
Mass amount of K9 purchase..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indian Army`s 130mm SPH in service since 80s
130mm M46 on Vijayanta chassis..

There are plus 200 of these still in service........

 

[prateikf]

the catapult is old and obsolete. it has a range of just 27 km. pak and china have modern self propelled howitzers with a range of more than 50 km. the m-46 was intended to be replaced in the 1980's itself.

 

[prateikf]

the RWG-52 is nothing but the Denel G-6 with the same chasis but with a PZH-2000 turret. The RWG-52 was built by Rheinmetall through a joint venture with denel. if we wanted something like this we should have purchased it 10 years ago from Denel itself.

 

[Agantrope]

Antony's South Korea visit to boost defence ties

We may see our own K9 tracked SPH..
or
Mass amount of K9 purchase..

K-9 has a good track record. Atleast i want them to finish this deal in sooner the time. Bhim in new Avatar

 

[sayareakd]

we need lot of accurate guns that too at faster rate, not it will be up to the persons who are in position to decide this quickly and cut the delay for TOT. (one really wonder if this will happen in Congress rule as they have already burn there hands in Bofors gun deal).

 

[prateikf]

And we, meanwhile, cannot decide to buy an artillery gun for our army in 23 years, have critical defence acquisitions blocked because the director of the CBI produced a list of charges against certain suppliers and has not yet backed it even with an FIR. And do you want to know how scandalous this is? The omnipotent CBI chief, modern-day Indian equivalent of Stalin's infamous hatchet-man Beria (show me the man, I will give you the crime), gave these charges not even on his agency's letterhead but on a plain piece of paper and, most breathtaking of all, did not even sign it. And yet the government, and the mighty Cabinet Committee on Security, have not been able to toss aside this incredible spanner.

Amazing facts by Shekhar Gupta in today's indian express article:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/united-regressive-alliance/677015/2

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some Interesting Info on South Korean K9 SPH....

K9 Thunder SPH
Type : Self-propelled artillery

Place of origin : ROK(South Korea)

Designer : Agency for Defense Development

Designed : in 1998

Manufacturer : SamsungTechwin

Unit cost : about 3.3 million USD

Produced : in 1999 /* about 300 vehicles were produced till Dec. 2008 and total 532 vehicles will be produced */

Weight : 47tons

Length : 12m

Width : 3.4m

Height : 3.5m

Crew : 5(Commander, Driver, Gunner, 2 Loaders)

Primary armament : Hyundai WIA 155mm/L52 Artillery Gun

Secondary armament : S&T Daewoo K6 12.7mm machine gun

Engine : MTU 881Ka-500

Transmission : ATDX1100-5A3 (4 forward and 2 reverse gears)

Power/weight : 21hp/ton

Suspension : Horstman hydro-pneumatic suspensions, modified one for K9 by ADD & Doosan Mottrol

Operational range : 360km

Max speed : 67km/h




K9 Thunder is the first SPH developed by ROK and the first SPH equipped with 155/L52 gun in Asia.

Its development had led by ADD or Agency for Defense Development, government's military research lab.

When ADD started the development, they didn't have enough budget, technologies and time for developing whole systems indigenously, so they should've decided which ones to develop themselves or import from other countries.

They developed the System, Fire Control System, 155/L52 Gun, Munitions(K307 BB/HE:40.6km range, K310 BB/DP-ICM:36km range, K315 Hybrid Propulsion Projectile), Munition Transfer and Loading System, Gun-Turret Drive System and Chassis. imported Navigation System, Powerpack, Race Ring. also license produced Hydro-pneumatic Suspension System.

K9's Conceptual Development started in 1989 by ADD and got approval for combat use from Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1998.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Long Range Guided Projectile
range: about 100km

photo by alumina from 알루미나 전기로

 

[wild goose]

New RFP Expected For Indian Wheeled Guns

The Indian defense ministry is expected to reissue the request for proposals (RFP) for the third time for 140 wheeled guns within the next two weeks.

Retrials will be held for the same guns that participated in earlier rounds to evaluate performance in extreme hot and cold conditions in the harsh desert terrains of Rajasthan and Ladakh. Firing rate and command and control will be assessed.

Bidders being named include Kerametal of Slovakia, with its Zuzana gun, and Germany's Rheinmetall RWG-52.

The latest development, however, comes amid ongoing confusion and allegations regarding so-called "blacklisting" of some contenders in the past (Aerospace DAILY, April 2). For instance, Singapore Technologies Kinetics was not invited to participate in the RFP after being named in a report related to an Ordnance Factories Board (OFB) scandal. But Rheinmetall, which was rejected on another tender for being involved in the same OFB report, was called to participate in trials for bi-modular charges in Pokhran, and now for the wheeled guns.

Rheinmetall recently denied any wrongdoing regarding the acquisition of defense contracts in India, saying it had broken no rules. A Rheinmetall spokesman says it has not received any notification as to the basis of the corruption allegations.

"With regard to future projects, as well, the company is eager to clear this matter up," a Rheinmetall representative says.

Armed with 155-mm. ordnance, the 48-ton Rheinmetall Wheeled Gun (RWG)-52 is designed to be a mobile 6×6 artillery system for flexible fire-support operations. The vehicle has a maximum road speed of 80 kph. (50 mph.), and can reach speeds of up to 70 kph. when operating off-road. Its strategic range is 700 km. (435 mi.) and its tactical range is 300 km. A built-in tire pressure management system further enhances the vehicle's off-road performance, according to a Rheinmetall spokesman.

Its autonomous turret is equipped with the L/52 Rheinmetall gun used in Germany's PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzer in service with the armed forces of Germany, Italy, Greece and the Netherlands, the latter having deployed it in combat operations in Afghanistan.

While BAE Systems' Archer does not fit the Indian army requirements for the wheeled gun bid, the company has submitted a response to the latest request for information for towed 155-mm. howitzers, following previous tenders that were canceled due to the inability of other potential suppliers to meet the requirements.

The company's offer will be based on the FH77 B05 155-mm. howitzer, and a significant number will be manufactured in India to meet the specific needs of the Indian army.

BAE representative Guy Douglas told AVIATION WEEK earlier that the 155-mm. FH77B05 howitzer was the best choice for India since it has proven itself in previous trials. "It is the big sister of the FH77 B02 that performed well in the Kargil conflict, so its pedigree is unquestionable," according to the company spokesman.

Meanwhile, BAE's M777 ultra lightweight howitzer is now in the U.S. foreign military sales process for purchase by India.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kerametal of Slovakia, with its Zuzana gun!

ZUZANA - 155 mm Self-propelled Gun Howitzer is a modern Slovak artillery system with a 45-caliber gun and automatic loader for loading of both, a projectile and charge. It is based on the DANA 152mm self-propelled howitzer.

The system features long range, high accuracy and rate of fire, prompt preparation for firing and high level of mobility ensured by a modified TATRA 8x8 chassis. Design of the gun enables to use any NATO standard 155mm ammunition available on the market. The Fire Control System enables for a Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact (MRSI) mode. One of the unique features of ZUZANA is that the gun is mounted externally in between two totally separated compartments of the turret. This makes the system extremely safe for its crew that is completely out of reach of any potentially dangerous mechanics of the gun and autoloader plus the crew is protected from the gases generated during firing.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Rheinmetall RWG-52 und RTG 52..

Armed with 155mm ordnance, the Rheinmetall Wheeled Gun (RWG)-52 is a highly mobile 6x6 artillery system for flexible fire support operations. This 48-ton vehicle has a maximum road speed of 80 km/h, and can reach speeds of up to 70 km/h when operating off-road. Its strategic range is 700 km, its tactical range 300 km. A built-in tyre pressure management system further enhances the vehicle's excellent off-road performance.

The heart of the system is the autonomous turret, equipped with the same tried-and-tested L/52 Rheinmetall gun used in Germany's PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzer. This highly advanced weapons system is in service with the armed forces of Germany, Italy, Greece and the Netherlands, the latter having successfully deployed it in combat operations in Afghanistan

Rheinmetall Defence - 02/15/2009: Rheinmetall – global leader in large-calibre gun technology

 

[sayareakd]

with k9 if given 200 K11 rifle then good buy.

 

[sayareakd]

i wonder if this guided amo can take out tanks and other amour at 100 km range.......... plus it can take out amo dump and other locations.

We need to go for K9 which was offered with JV from L&T.

 

[prabgun]

what abt our arjun ...... compared to these...?

 

[slenke]

New RFP Expected For Indian Wheeled Guns

Anyone know on what grounds the Archer didn't fit the IA requirements?