Indian Army Artillery

[blueblood]

Even if you take one brigade per division, each brigade with nine batteries, you are counting 54 guns. What about reserves. If you are fighting the Chinese, you must look at your reserves very carefully. You need to prepare for heavy attrition.

My estimate is also based on one brigade per division. However I took 10 soldiers per gun, and 1500 fighting men per brigade.

Dude, reserves are exactly what they are, RESERVES. You don't don't count them in operational scenario considering that neither you nor I have any idea about the rate of attrition which is very less in artillery.

Where the hell are you pulling these figures from?

A brigade in IA usually consists of minimum three battalions which in infantry means ~ 3000 troops.

10 soldiers per gun. So according to you there should be more howitzers in support than the machine guns. Bravo mate.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There are 4 regiments of Pinaka back in 2011, It said the number have increased, Though their is indeed need for Prahaar ..

I think we also need increase in MLRS numbers. More Pinaka launchers are needed. Pinaka with 60km range is sufficient for our need.

I have not seen any move to order additional Pinaka units.

 

[sgarg]

Dude, reserves are exactly what they are, RESERVES. You don't don't count them in operational scenario considering that neither you nor I have any idea about the rate of attrition which is very less in artillery.

Where the hell are you pulling these figures from?

A brigade in IA usually consists of minimum three battalions which in infantry means ~ 3000 troops.

10 soldiers per gun. So according to you there should be more howitzers in support than the machine guns. Bravo mate.

1. Reserves
-----------

Every force uses some calculation for reserves. No idea what Indian Army uses. For example Air force keeps a certain number of planes per squadron as attrition reserves.

It is common sense that any fight with China (a very well equipped army) would cause serious attrition of men and materiel. You do not need a rocket scientist to figure it out.

I would think you need one gun in reserve for every one gun issued. You cannot build large caliber guns very quickly. You need to have them built and stored somewhere.

China is rumoured to have underground "cities" where massive amount of war materiel is stored.

2. Calculation for number of guns: My calculation may be wrong in the context of Indian Army. Can you tell me the correct calculation?

3. Your success with China will completely depend on your ability to successfully deploy heavy weapons. The days of assault rifle are history. You will need logistics for moving heavy weapons and ammunition and good reserves to sustain yourself in the battlefield.

4. I feel artillery is more important than machine guns. You will face heavy artillery fire and rocket fire. I doubt you can use machine guns for counter-attack.

5. Indian army is deployed on the fringes of Tibetan plateau where the battle will be decided by artillery.

 

[Ray]

How did you come up with this figure?

First, your figure of 150 guns don't fit into any kind of artillery formation IA uses i.e. regiments, brigades and divisions. Every regiment has 3 batteries of 6 guns each and an artillery brigade consists of three regiments. AFAIK, IA do not treat batteries as independent units.

Second, what kind of division would need that many guns for support? I could be wrong but a division is usually supported by a single brigade and if the need arises an independent brigade can attached by the corps HQ to the division. You are proposing that we should triple the amount of artillery for no good reason.

@Ray, please throw some light on this matter.

I could throw some light if such calibres were available.

I cannot, with your permission, opine over the unknown and the hoary.

I am also wondering if the Artillery is the sole weapon for a combat decision.

 

[sgarg]

Mr Ray, my question was if there is any reason that Indian army seems to have lower tube artillery compared to other armies, per men, including Pakistan army.

Are there any doctrinal reasons or is it just mis-managed procurement plans?

My definition of tube artillery includes MLRS. I am very impressed with the variety of MLRS that Chinese have, denoting heavy importance of rockets in the Chinese thinking.

 

[blueblood]

I could throw some light if such calibres were available.

I cannot, with your permission, opine over the unknown and the hoary.

I am also wondering if the Artillery is the sole weapon for a combat decision.

Sir, my request was for you to shed some light on the implementation of heavy arty in a conventional warfare with PLA in the mountainous terrain.

 

[ladder]

Mr Ray, my question was if there is any reason that Indian army seems to have lower tube artillery compared to other armies, per men, including Pakistan army.

Are there any doctrinal reasons or is it just mis-managed procurement plans?

My definition of tube artillery includes MLRS. I am very impressed with the variety of MLRS that Chinese have, denoting heavy importance of rockets in the Chinese thinking.

My definition of tube artillery includes MLRS.

I don't think MLRS are covered under Tube artillery.

 

[blueblood]

I don't think MLRS are covered under Tube artillery.

In his world it is. Also a howitzer is a section weapon and an infantry division is supposed to be supported by an arty division.

 

[The Fox]

hey kunal what happened to this quotes we are still waiting for your updates.............

In my recent tour i have collected some of very important Quotes of field commanders and high rank officers so does grunts on Ground during Kargil conflict, These Quotes will demolish everyone of those doubts regarding effectiveness of Artillery, These Quotes are never before publish on Internet, Will be soon posting these as soon as i reach home also will post some rare images from this war ....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I am planning to make a seperate folder and will post here also, Will try to post to-nite only ..

 

[Ray]

Sir, my request was for you to shed some light on the implementation of heavy arty in a conventional warfare with PLA in the mountainous terrain.

India does not have heavy artillery.

It has medium and field artillery.

In mountainous terrain firing any 'area weapon' (the artillery is an area weapon), the fall of shot will include some falling on the target, many short of the target and many over the target.

Bofors proved very successful in the Kargil War because it was used in direct role (like a flat trajectory weapon) and because a preponderance of shells were fired so that, notwithstanding the 'overs' and 'short', the requisite number of shells found the target.

The same will be the effect in any other mountainous area agaisnt the PLA or the Pakistanis.

 

[Bhadra]

hey kunal what happened to this quotes we are still waiting for your updates.............

You must also know the effects of artillery when Pakistan and Indian Army fired at each other during Op Parakram and post Parakram before cease fire agreement of 2003. There was a period of close to three years when both sides used all sorts of guns and weapons including Bofors / 155 mm at each other.


Well Kargil _ Success has many fathers. must know that standard of sanagers and stone / rubble bunkers made by The Northern Light Infantry over a period of three moths, were not able to to take hit of artillery shell. They were not under RCC bunkers.

Bofors, were more successful because of it being howitzer and able to fire at high angles which 105 mm field guns and 130 Mediums were not able to do. As also due to heavy shells.

Bofors were more successful in giving camera and video shots to the media like Burkha Dutt and others and being in the eyes of public firing from Kargil bowl .

Could you tell me how many artillery FOO were killed during the operation being with assaulting companies?

 

[sgarg]

What about D-30. Was it used in Kargil in direct fire role? Was it successful?

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/521193254809657345

[tweet]521193254809657345[/tweet]

more from the above link

#OFBDhanush tech: has a modified loading trough to accommodate BMCS Zone-6.
#OFBDhanush tech: modified double baffle muzzle brake.
#OFBDhanush tech: Electronic suite for enhanced firing accuracy and autolaying.
#OFBDhanush tech: Gun recording is done by an onboard inertial navigation system rather than a collimator and detector .
#OFBDhanush tech: has a muzzle velocity radar for MV recordings.
#OFBDhanush tech: Hydraulics has been modified for auto-laying.
#OFBDhanush tech: Sighting is provided by CCD, Thermal imager and laser range finder (LRF).
#OFBDhanush tech: Communication suite is compatible with Shakti and STAR-V
#OFBDhanush tech: Direct fire capability out to 1200 metres.
#OFBDhanush : Electromagnetic compatibility as per JSG-0261 and US MIL-STD-461F.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

As far as i know, There were no D-30 ..

What about D-30. Was it used in Kargil in direct fire role? Was it successful?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Artillary During Kargil War ..

The following quotes are from Kargil War, Quotes are from JCOs to COs of various units operating during the War, These Quotes are extracted from Military archives and were never published before in brief ..

Hope you all enjoy reading

 

[Kunal Biswas]

During War PA had American origin WLR, Due to these Bofors Guns have to move constantly and simultaneously M-46 guns had to engage in counter battery fire ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

An Impossible task, Men moving thousands of Kilos of artillery and mortar up-hill by hands, It was the pure josh and need which made impossible, Possible !

 

[Kunal Biswas]

They praise the Artillery and the gunners ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The Gunners themselves ..