Indian Army Armored Vehicles

[Kunal Biswas]

There are no issues in Indian arty Guns with barrels ..

Provide if there is ..

The issue is about how good is the metallurgy used to build these barrels.

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Kaveri will be integrated on Tejas, Follow Kaveri thread, This is not the proper place ..

From 3rd person's perspective Kaveri failed to integrate on Tejas.

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Read the link, You are backing my words with links ..

Broadsword: T-90 tank: Technology transfer, supply of assemblies hit Russian stonewall

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Its Simply, Thickness of the barrel is proportional to the length, Thicker the barrel longer the life ..

Can you back up this claim.

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There are variation within 155mm guns, G5 is a 45cal ..

Which used G5 howitzer.

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You are talking abt foregin firms and providing DRDO link..

Further in the link itself it does not mentioned mention what kind of coating, If chrome then its rare in large calibers, And in the link it said only DRDO .

This is what is generally done. We buy technology from foreign firm and then manufacture. This does not make our metallurgy capability good.

DRDO, Army working on futuristic artillery gun - IBNLive

If you had googled all facts first then you wouldn't have been required to use 2 mins of your valuable time for replying you my post.

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You dont know what you talk about, You are mixing Civil industry with Military one, I am not here for argument winning contest ..

If you have to say something useful, Post it other wise dont, It saves time and bandwidth ..

 

[Sea Eagle]

Kaveri will be integrated on Tejas, Follow Kaveri thread, This is not the proper place ..



@Kunal Biswas Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA | idrw.org

"Sources close to idrw"
This guy clearly knows how to make stories. I am sure he picked it up from drdo Aero chief facebook chat...

 

[Pulkit]

What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Just for the last few days after witnessing the "Sautela" Behaviour with Tejas,Dhruv,LCH and Rudra I have been wondering did they saem had happened with Arjun MBT tank 1 ....
The only reason I could find was over weight .... That is a big thing surely.... Is it?

 

[cobra commando]

Tanks trundle through Avadi - The Hindu

 

[Hari Sud]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Not too many faults except our obtuse army or airforce or navy.

Arjun is a fine tank. The army has tested it to the hell. Unable to find serious deficiencies they have been knit picking. Minor Tests are planned for a year later in order to delay, or simply new Trusted team is assigned who would find faults which the previous team missed. In other words the army is getting away by delaying in case of Arjun Tank or 155 mm artillery.

Did you know Indian army also found defects in M777 artillery piece tested by them. It is the finest light weight artillery piece. That delay resulted in price escalation and now shutdown of the assembly line what a pity.

Air Force is no different. Shame on them that they lost a brand new American Plane and are about to find faults with it. Something is wrong not only in the GQSR and the procurement process. Worst for all, something is defintely wrong in a big way we test hardware which armies are using and have found no defects.

The new government has to deal with our obtuse armed forces. They have been spoiled by too much supports. May be they like the commissions which come with the imported hardware. Our Air Marshall had been caught getting commissions. If the investigators look hard enough in case of Arjun or artillery purchases, they would find the bribery scandal.

A wholesale purge is needed to remove all these well healed Generals, Air Marshals and Admirals.

The nation have had enough. They need to be court martialed. They need to put before the fir...g squad.

AK Anthony our Defence Minister has not got a clue. He is building bureaucracy after bureaucracy to avoid influence peddling and bribery, but it seems it goes on and on.

Pity!!!!!

 

[p2prada]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

It was late by roughly 10 years.

 

[Jagdish58]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

It was late by roughly 10 years.

But still Out gunned the T-90 Indian Army premium MAIN BATTLE TANK:thumb:

Yet Army is naive on Arjun MBT

 

[p2prada]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

But still Out gunned the T-90 Indian Army premium MAIN BATTLE TANK:thumb:

Yet Army is naive on Arjun MBT

It didn't. The T-90 still has superior ammo and gun.

Arjun had better accuracy simply because it was a bit newer. And T-90 will get newer systems during the upgrade.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

the problem is not with the tank and Actually nothing, Indian Tank Doctrine is built around less 50 ton category ie Russian tanks, our bridges, our railway carriers, our roads etc are made in that context which is a myth when the wagons are designed and civil dept idiots dont want to upgrade the bridges another story well!!, a 60 ton tank like Arjun though superior, we would have to make a lot of investment into such areas, so also this particular machine has a beautiful armor,compeletly Indian and top notch, and is said to be really good, as well as it hydro-phenumatic suspension is supposed to be the best in the world, the major cost factor in the whole tank is its german engine, designers of Leo 2 were the main consultants only, therefore the resemeblence to Leo 2,but its completely different

BUT

Poor planning, over-optimistic timelines and a lack of coordination with the Armed Forces led to cost and time overruns of major defence projects taken up by the Defence Research and Development Organisation

SECONDLY little OT and Relevant

Seeking to build up its armoured warfare capabilities to crush a potential threat from Venezuela, its Latin American neighbour Colombia has shown interest in buying India's indigenous Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun.
The first ever expression of interest from abroad in the MBT Arjun could translate into an export order worth Rs 1,700 crore, with Colombia wanting to raise at least two regiments of main battle tanks.

"Bogota has expressed interest in the MBT Arjun. The Colombian army has an immediate requirement for 10 tanks to be followed up with the induction of another 100 over five years," said a senior official, on the condition of anonymity.

The competitors for the Colombian order include France (MBT Leclerc), US (MIAI Abram), Israel (Sabra), Korea (KI AI) and China.
India's reluctance to export military equipment could tip the scales in the favour of international suppliers. The ministry of external affairs had recently turned down a Bolivian request for a line of credit to buy seven Dhruv advanced light helicopters worth over Rs 300 crore from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

Source

A first: Foreign interest in Arjun tank - Hindustan Times

By all accounts Arjun is a capable and well outfitted tank

 

[Santu]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Just for the last few days after witnessing the "Sautela" Behaviour with Tejas,Dhruv,LCH and Rudra I have been wondering did they saem had happened with Arjun MBT tank 1 ....
The only reason I could find was over weight .... That is a big thing surely.... Is it?

It was designed and developed in India.. That's the only reason

 

[Patriot]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Because it doesn't bring money in the coffers of the arms import lobby and Russian babes lovers. We have tin cans with out TOT, ammunition, ACs etc etc simply tin cans. What fool Russians have made us out of T-90 crap deal.
There has been hell of discussion for hundreds of pages but Tin Can supporters are always in denial and can not see the obvious for the love of whatever crap. Forget anything deshi till we have such suckers in our country.
Arjun can prevail only when we have right leadership at IA and MOD. With current developments related to manipulation with succession plan by the PMO & it's handlers there is zero chance for the Arjun.

 

[methos]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Just for the last few days after witnessing the "Sautela" Behaviour with Tejas,Dhruv,LCH and Rudra I have been wondering did they saem had happened with Arjun MBT tank 1 ....
The only reason I could find was over weight .... That is a big thing surely.... Is it?

There have been a lot of reasons why the Arjun has been delayed several times due to technical difficulties and changes in the requirement. The common patriotic Indian opinion of the IA being to corrupt to induct the Arjun in greater numbers is not true, the Arjun was delayed too much because of the lack of capabilites of the Indian industry and numerous changes in the requirements.

The Ajrun - especially the Mk 1 - is not up to modern standards. It has a lot of shortcomings compared to modern tanks from industry countries (of which many are shared with the T-90).

 

[p2prada]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

There have been a lot of reasons why the Arjun has been delayed several times due to technical difficulties and changes in the requirement. The common patriotic Indian opinion of the IA being to corrupt to induct the Arjun in greater numbers is not true, the Arjun was delayed too much because of the lack of capabilites of the Indian industry and numerous changes in the requirements.

The Ajrun - especially the Mk 1 - is not up to modern standards. It has a lot of shortcomings compared to modern tanks from industry countries (of which many are shared with the T-90).

Sorry but the last major change in requirements was in 1985. Beyond that the change in requirements were very insignificant to really affect the project. Asking for attachment of a mine trawl and upgrade to digital electronics after 2000 isn't that big a change. And changing the angle of the commander's seat isn't much of a change in requirements either. CVRDE pushed missile firing capability and mine trawl to Mk2 anyway.

Between 1985 and 1998 there were no real changes in requirements. Even the gun and the armament were the same as it is today.

Arjun Mk2 is just the next iteration of the tank and most of the capabilities are only meant to keep the tank relevant with respect to the T-90 upgrades. And the requirements could very well be inferior to what the FMBT may be expected to have in the future, so that way at least CVRDE is able to deliver something before the FMBT production kicks off post 2020.

 

[hitesh]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

It didn't. The T-90 still has superior ammo and gun.

Arjun had better accuracy simply because it was a bit newer. And T-90 will get newer systems during the upgrade.

But sir jee the gun on arjun is not the latest among refiled one too .Due to the gun being rifled gun it had difficulty in integrating Israel's AGTM. I wonder once DRDO is able to get all tests cleared then IA will raise the Main gun issue being rifiled not smoothbore and to change the main gun from rifiled one to smooth bore all system needs to be tested again and the same loop will keep going again and again .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

It was and still is, T-90 purchase was scam and still on, The tank fail on multiple grounds and being upgraded by DRDO itself ..

Where as Arjun cleared, Defeated T-90 in joint trails according to Army records itself ..

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Weight is not an issue, Where Arjun fails, T-90 and T-72 too fails ..

Btw, Please discuss such issues on Main thread, This thread will be closed ..

They seem had happened with Arjun MBT tank 1 ....

The only reason I could find was over weight .... That is a big thing surely.... Is it?

 

[methos]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Between 1985 and 1998 there were no real changes in requirements. Even the gun and the armament were the same as it is today.

I think there were some changes. In 1985 the Arjun was still to use an Indian engine and an Indian transmission. But because both of these system failed, alternatives from Europe had to be bought - if there was a requirement for the engine and transmission to be indigenous, then it was changed.
Then after the RK-304 transmission was adopted on the Arjun, it performed poorly at first, because the Arjun's weight (the prototype weighed 62 tonnes) and the weight had to be reduced.
There also was a change in armour composition in the 1990s. In 1997 an article from The Week reported that the Kanchan armour did provide good protection against chemical energy, but low protection against kinetic energy, which lead to an increase of the steel content in the composite armour.

 

[p2prada]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

I think there were some changes. In 1985 the Arjun was still to use an Indian engine and an Indian transmission. But because both of these system failed, alternatives from Europe had to be bought - if there was a requirement for the engine and transmission to be indigenous, then it was changed.

Basic requirements stayed the same. It's not like the army demanded a newer and better engine or changed the turret or chassis design mid way. Also the failure of bringing an Indian engine design into Arjun isn't the army's fault.

The crux of the matter is people here believe the army was the one asking for design changes. There's a big difference in perception. The question isn't whether Arjun's requirements changed after 1985, it is about who forced the new changes, the army or CVRDE. In this particular situation I am pretty sure the change was made against the army's wishes, which they may have accepted reluctantly.

There also was a change in armour composition in the 1990s. In 1997 an article from The Week reported that the Kanchan armour did provide good protection against chemical energy, but low protection against kinetic energy, which lead to an increase of the steel content in the composite armour.

These are not major changes. Changing the armor in the 90s wouldn't have led to failure of the rangefinder in 2005 or multiple engine failures in 2007.

We could very well be talking about a 3rd generation Kanchan armor today, maybe even 4th gen. This is a natural progression and not different from what other armies do.

Somehow, the actual user, the army, is the bad guy.

 

[methos]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Somehow, the actual user, the army, is the bad guy.

Yes, that's a habit one can see in this forum very clearly. But it can also be found in other countries. I have read a dozen European articles from people complaining about the high unit costs of modern combat vehicles, but the only reason for them is that the orders were cut-back during the development or even in the production phases.

 

[p2prada]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Yes, that's a habit one can see in this forum very clearly. But it can also be found in other countries. I have read a dozen European articles from people complaining about the high unit costs of modern combat vehicles, but the only reason for them is that the orders were cut-back during the development or even in the production phases.

The issue with Europe is different. In India, the the numbers determines the budget needed. In Europe, with the dwindling threat of the SU, the budget determines the numbers procured. And in this situation also the army is not to blame, the govt and people are to blame for not giving the army the required budget.

It is so easy to blame the military for actions that they have little or no control of.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: What was Arjun MBT Fault?

Week is not official mouth of Government or DRDO, Its a private news agency that writes what benefits them ..

And my advice do not spread disinformation based on your imaginations about the bold part, If you dont know about it better wait and know then speak it.

There also was a change in armour composition in the 1990s. In 1997 an article from The Week reported that the Kanchan armour did provide good protection against chemical energy, but low protection against kinetic energy, which lead to an increase of the steel content in the composite armour.