Indian Army Armored Vehicles

[Kunal Biswas]

Requesting to members, We in DFI have prosper and learned lot new things ..

Its best for us to behave civil, And respect others and same will be given to you ..

Abusing MOD or Member will only get you in Trouble ..

 

[Ajeesh Kumar S]

that's good...

 

[ghost]

There are now 1500 T-72M1, From which 1000 are out of commission and canabalised for rest 500 tanks, There are some +600 T-90 from which half of them cannot fire Missiles and all have Night blindness due to malfunctioning thermal sight even today ..

There is a place for at least 1300 tanks where Arjun can be fit in..

Factually incorrect The Army's objective is to equip over 1,600 T-72 tanks that form the backbone of the country's armored forces, with advanced night fighting capabilities.

India has approved a plan to buy 30 billion rupees ($500 million) worth of night-vision equipment for its armed forces, a government official says.

At an April 2 meeting of the Defense Acquisition Council, the highest decision-making body in the country's defense affairs, Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony approved the procurement of around 5,000 third-generation thermal-imaging and night-vision devices for the country's Russian-origin T-72 and T-90 battle tanks and its BMP Infantry Combat Vehicles (ICVs), a defense official says.

Programs already are under way to equip T-72 tanks with 700 thermal imaging standalone systems (Tisas) and 418 thermal fire control systems at a cost of around $230 million. About 300 Israeli Tisas have been installed already as part of the T-72 upgrade program.

For the T-72 tanks, 2,000 more pieces of thermal imagers will be procured at a cost of about 10 billion rupees;

Defense Update:1,600 Indian T-72s Slated for Night Vision Upgrades - Defense Update:

India OKs Night-Vision Equipment Purchase

 

[Kunal Biswas]

T-72 is another mess in Armored Crop, Op Rinho was initiated back in late 90s to upgrade T-72, Almost half the size is upgrade by DRDO ..

Now this is another upgrade costing another billions to upgrade ' Only ' Upgraded Tanks by DRDO, The rest are still in storage ..

==============

The broken Tanks in storage are used for spare parts to run operational once, And few are in working condtions in storage as reserves ..

Factually incorrect The Army's objective is to equip over 1,600 T-72 tanks that form the backbone of the country's armored forces, with advanced night fighting capabilities.

India has approved a plan to buy 30 billion rupees ($500 million) worth of night-vision equipment for its armed forces, a government official says.

 

[ghost]

T-72 is another mess in Armored Crop, Op Rinho was initiated back in late 90s to upgrade T-72, Almost half the size is upgrade by DRDO ..

Now this is another upgrade costing another billions to upgrade ' Only ' Upgraded Tanks by DRDO, The rest are still in storage ..

==============

The broken Tanks in storage are used for spare parts to run operational once, And few are in working condtions in storage as reserves ..

I do not agree with this as per ak antony entire fleet of t72 tank is battle worhy and operational .I don't know how to highlightbut posting where he had said this in loksabha.And current operational t72 are 1800 which have been or are being fully upgraded thermal sight included.

Of the total holding of T-72 tanks, a part of them was already equipped with high-end technology night vision device, which was fully integrated and exploited.

The Russian-made T-72 tank fleet of the Indian Army is undergoing an upgradation programme to equip thermal imaging capabilities to its night vision system, the Lok Sabha was informed today.

Defence minister AK Antony told the Lower House in a written reply during question hour that the process of upgrading the night fighting capabilities of the T-72 tanks with thermal imaging was an ongoing process.

He said the fleet was being optimally used and was the mainstay of the present tank fleet. "The entire fleet of this tank is fully battle worthy with high mission and operational reliability."

Of the total holding of T-72 tanks, a part of them was already equipped with high-end technology night vision device, which was fully integrated and exploited, he said.

India currently operates about 1,800 T-72 tanks.

 

[sayareakd]

I do not agree with this as per ak antony entire fleet of t72 tank is battle worhy and operational .I don't know how to highlightbut posting where he had said this in loksabha.And current operational t72 are 1800 which have been or are being fully upgraded thermal sight included.

Of the total holding of T-72 tanks, a part of them was already equipped with high-end technology night vision device, which was fully integrated and exploited.

The Russian-made T-72 tank fleet of the Indian Army is undergoing an upgradation programme to equip thermal imaging capabilities to its night vision system, the Lok Sabha was informed today.

Defence minister AK Antony told the Lower House in a written reply during question hour that the process of upgrading the night fighting capabilities of the T-72 tanks with thermal imaging was an ongoing process.

He said the fleet was being optimally used and was the mainstay of the present tank fleet. "The entire fleet of this tank is fully battle worthy with high mission and operational reliability."

Of the total holding of T-72 tanks, a part of them was already equipped with high-end technology night vision device, which was fully integrated and exploited, he said.

India currently operates about 1,800 T-72 tanks.

they are not very good against modern anti tank weapons. one anti tank per T72. We saw it in Georgian war. So we should only use the T72 chassis for Akash and other thinks may be to put AK630, so that it can move with armor.


all the 1800 T72 should be replaced with Arjun Mk-1 and 2.

 

[ghost]

they are not very good against modern anti tank weapons. one anti tank per T72. We saw it in Georgian war. So we should only use the T72 chassis for Akash and other thinks may be to put AK630, so that it can move with armor.


all the 1800 T72 should be replaced with Arjun Mk-1 and 2.

Those t72 tanks are already upgraded and running (millions of dollars already spend on upgrades) so they can't be compared with arjun tank as buying arjun would require more money plus at the rate of production by the time all arjun are acquired by the army soon they would be outdated in comparison to new tech.

What i suggest is that a competition should be declared in which drdo and other private major indian companies should develope their own FMBT within next two years .At the end of which army should choose the winning design and incorporate good features of other designs and reward the tender of FMBT to the winning company to make.FMBT is the way of future not arjun.

 

[sayareakd]

Those t72 tanks are already upgraded and running (millions of dollars already spend on upgrades) so they can't be compared with arjun tank as buying arjun would require more money plus at the rate of production by the time all arjun are acquired by the army soon they would be outdated in comparison to new tech.

What i suggest is that a competition should be declared in which drdo and other private major indian companies should develope their own FMBT within next two years .At the end of which army should choose the winning design and incorporate good features of other designs and reward the tender of FMBT to the winning company to make.FMBT is the way of future not arjun.

if Arjun will be outdated then T90S is already outdated.

FMBT is lollipop which earlier DGMF give when Arjun MK1 won comparative trial. The had to say something to save his face. Then the FMBT on which he was relying on (Russian FMBT project) was cancelled.

Even today IA has not come up with FMBT GSQR. Why because IA has no idea what will be armor of the future will be, all they care is where to get slice of their pie.

 

[ghost]

if Arjun will be outdated then T90S is already outdated.

FMBT is lollipop which earlier DGMF give when Arjun MK1 won comparative trial. The had to say something to save his face. Then the FMBT on which he was relying on (Russian FMBT project) was cancelled.

Even today IA has not come up with FMBT GSQR. Why because IA has no idea what will be armor of the future will be, all they care is where to get slice of their pie.

Armata Main Battle Tank (MBT)

The development of Russia's new-generation main battle tank will be completed in 2015, and mass production is slated to being in 2016, the tank maker said 20 November 2013. Russia's leadership had already seen a secret prototype of the new tank, dubbed the Armata and expected to become the armored core of the Russian army.

Armata Main Battle Tank (MBT)

And to just add army invited israelis for fmbt .They were ready to prepare a FMBT right from scratch but army insisted FMBT to be based on present arjun hence they left.

 

[sayareakd]

Armata Main Battle Tank (MBT)

The development of Russia's new-generation main battle tank will be completed in 2015, and mass production is slated to being in 2016, the tank maker said 20 November 2013. Russia's leadership had already seen a secret prototype of the new tank, dubbed the Armata and expected to become the armored core of the Russian army.

Armata Main Battle Tank (MBT)

According to sources Indian Army only considered working with DRDO when Russians confirmed cancellation of "T-95" Tank Project they were working on.

Déjà vu : Can DRDO's FMBT Project survive Russia's Next Gen Tank Project ? | idrw.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-95

 

[ghost]

Déjà vu : Can DRDO's FMBT Project survive Russia's Next Gen Tank Project ? | idrw.org

T-95 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The source i quoted is of november 20 2013 and the one you quoted is of october 2013 so add up.T95 was canceled but using its research new tank has been developed AKA ARMATA.

Maybe if russia offer than our army would go for ARMATA .who knows...................

 

[sayareakd]

The source i quoted is of november 20 2013 and the one you quoted is of october 2013 so add up.T95 was canceled but using its research new tank has been developed AKA ARMATA.

Maybe if russia offer than our army would go for ARMATA .who knows...................

yeah they will love to have Arjun tank if Russian offer then with name T2000.

 

[ghost]

yeah they will love to have Arjun tank if Russian offer then with name T2000.

You are being little unfair to our army on this as i have earlier pointed out and repeating again "israelis were prepared to develop a new FMBT for india right from scratch but army insisted to use arjun as a base hence deal did not materialize " See army is taking care of arjun just want little bit futuristic.

 

[sayareakd]

You are being little unfair to our army on this as i have earlier pointed out and repeating again "israelis were prepared to develop a new FMBT for india right from scratch but army insisted to use arjun as a base hence deal did not materialize " See army is taking care of arjun just want little bit futuristic.

you know how much water has flown ???

IA was divided with Arjun walas and Tin cans walas, now what Arjun has come on top, it has change some mind set, but paid agents still run around in IA.

 

[sayareakd]

here is your secret tank

 

[ghost]

here is your secret tank

It's not the production model .

Now let's get "REAL" what role do you see of arjun mk 2 twenty years down the line when we already have and ordered for more t90s tanks now we need a MBT tank which can stay MBT for next 40 years.Now if we go by you then 20 years down the line we would have a lot of ARJUN mk2 but they would not be advance enough compared to other country MBT then you will suggest develop a new tank and make arjun mk2 support tank .

OK then what about thousand of t90 tank we already have ordered ?as far as i see ARJUN MK2 can only be placed outside drdo gate as showpiece development of FMBT is the need of present time and our country "future" we do not have endless amount of money to waste on arjun mk2

Develop fmbt soon and then mass produce them.PERIOD..........CASE CLOSED

 

[ersakthivel]

Both the T-90S Bshima and the Arjun use Kanchan armour, as mentioned already earlier by Kunal Biswas. The main difference is that the T-90S has a much better turret shape with much smaller weakspots.


ToT does not mean you get all sorts of technologies and are afterwards able to completely manufacture any components of it. There are two mayor factors people here are never taking into account when complaining about the lack of ToT:

1.) What technologies actually were part of the ToT agreement? If the Indian government did not request and pay for some technologies, the Indian government will not get these. If the Russians betrayed you, would the Indian government still order new tanks instead of canceling the orders and sueing UVZ?

2.) With whom did the Indian government make the ToT agreement? Probably with UVZ or Rosoboronexport. But not all parts inside the T-90 are made by UVZ, many components are made by different companies and UVZ simply buys them in order to create their T-90. The gun or the armour are not made by UVZ, so they couldn't even give you said technolgies even if they wanted. Some components, like most electronics and optics of the FCS aren't even made in Russia, but in Belarus.

It's like making a ToT agreement with Ford/Renault/VW and afterwards complaining that you weren't given the technology to produce modern tires! FordRenault/VW do buy tires from different companies instead of making their own.

This weak spots on arjun theory of yours has no proof,

T-90 relies on ERA which can not withstand repeated hits and designed to blow off in tiles,

But the kanchan composite armor block in arjun is good enough to provide the same level of protection of T-90 (with ERA)and arjun doesn't really need ERA to get the same level of protection. And whats more composite armor blocks of arjun won't be blown away in tiles like ERA and can take repeated hits and survive

All the critical weakness of T-90 has been officially stated and no cure is to be found even after a decade of induction shows what kind of tank T-90 in supporting IA's desert strike corps

 

[ersakthivel]

Armata Main Battle Tank (MBT)

The development of Russia's new-generation main battle tank will be completed in 2015, and mass production is slated to being in 2016, the tank maker said 20 November 2013. Russia's leadership had already seen a secret prototype of the new tank, dubbed the Armata and expected to become the armored core of the Russian army.

Armata Main Battle Tank (MBT)

And to just add army invited israelis for fmbt .They were ready to prepare a FMBT right from scratch but army insisted FMBT to be based on present arjun hence they left.

there is nothing that arjun mk-2 can't do for the indian army , that can be done by Armata,

And no one has seen are evaluated the operating details of armata either,

Arjun has enough space inside for crew to dissipate the heat so that the electronics operate even without AC and saving crew men from fainting ,

it has four crew members as per the insistence of indian army,

in mk-2 it has completely safe ammo chamber that protects the crew from ammo cook off,

And it has been designed after never ending repeated evaluations by IA to suit it needs for indian desert conditions.

a big enough APU that can run all its electronics even when main engine is switched off in totally silent condition,

there is no guarantee that all the features of arjun mentioned above are present in the armata to make it a success in indian summer and desert conditions. A country like Russia produces a tank best suited to operate in its cold climate borders economizing on all aspects like space inside and number of crew members.It never designs tanks keeping indian security force needs.

if you want to know the truth you can google the reality of the so called cutting edge russian wares (issues with Su-30 MKI, T-90, PAKFA, mig-29)having all kinds of issue in indian theater .

the israelis advised us that tank designs are evolutionary and not revolutionary ,

and advised us to evolve future versions of Arjun as FMBT

 

[ghost]

there is nothing that arjun mk-2 can't do for the indian army , that can be done by Armata,

And no one has seen are evaluated the operating details of armata either,

if you want to know the truth you can google the reality of the so called cutting edge russian wares (issues with Su-30 MKI, T-90, PAKFA, mig-29)having all kinds of issue in indian theater .

You need to see context of that post

Now to you and all INDIA WITH ITS LIMITED RESOURCES HAS TWO OPTION AT PRESENT "MASS PRODUCTION OF ARJUN MK2 OR DEVELOPMENT AND PRODUCTION OF FMBT "

I CHOOSE DEVELOPMENT AND MASS PRODUCTION OF FMBT

And there is no need of all this debate nor this thread as

"Ab pachtaye howat kya jab russian chug gaye tank"

 

[ersakthivel]

You need to see context of that post

Now to you and all INDIA WITH ITS LIMITED RESOURCES HAS TWO OPTION AT PRESENT "MASS PRODUCTION OF ARJUN MK2 OR DEVELOPMENT AND PRODUCTION OF FMBT "

I CHOOSE DEVELOPMENT AND MASS PRODUCTION OF FMBT

And there is no need of all this debate nor this thread as

"Ab pachtaye howat kya jab russian chug gaye tank"

frittering away of such frugal resources for T-90s with all their faults is an even bigger crime.

With all humility we are discussing the shortcomings of t-90 and why army is preferring T-90 with so many issues over the well developed Arjuns as per indian army's needs and specifications.

So any discussion on FMBT has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

mass production of Arjun mk-2 is the stepping stone for FMBt. otherwise CVRDE will forever be doing research and development and IA will forever import foreign equipments that have no means to operate in indian environs , and as tax payers you and i will be jolted to this cruel reality in times of war.

you should remember that all the flaws of t-90 were opened in public only during operation parakram, the army panicked and told the civilians in NDA that their space age T-90 is unfit for battle then due to various issues and decade later it is still not ready, while arjun has repeatedly proved itself.