Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Corvus Splendens]

Right after the parliamentary defense committee released a report citing the delay on AMCA and the need of the hour to import a fifth gen aircraft like the F-35.
IAF and Lockheed be like

 

[karn]

As for the evidence, if you say that KLJ-7A is unreliable to use air cooling, you have to use its power. Besides, not only KLJ-7A, but also F-18E/F will use air cooling radar in the future.

Besides, UTTAM is a radar that has just been tested for 250 hours on an aircraft, it's too early to talk about it, and India doesn't have any experience in developing airborne radars yet

Netra has been in service for 7 years at this point.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

also F-18E/F will use air cooling radar in the future.

The AN/APG-79 V4 is not air cooled.

Besides, UTTAM is a radar that has just been tested for 250 hours on an aircraft, it's too early to talk about it, and India doesn't have any experience in developing airborne radars yet

 

[jai jaganath]

As for the evidence, if you say that KLJ-7A is unreliable to use air cooling, you have to use its power. Besides, not only KLJ-7A, but also F-18E/F will use air cooling radar in the future.

Besides, UTTAM is a radar that has just been tested for 250 hours on an aircraft, it's too early to talk about it, and India doesn't have any experience in developing airborne radars yet

U are wrong regarding our experience we have built airborne radar for netra mk1 which is in service
Netra mk2 will have more powerful radar
Coming to test duration of uttam it's source in Wikipedia isn't responding and secondly it's old update as far as I remember
Now this is the status

Indigenous UTTAM AESA Radar Ready: Doubts Loom Over Initial Order Size | Delhi Defence Review

delhidefencereview.com

It's going through last round of flight tests in tejas
Point is many variants are in development one is tech demonstrator that is GaA 780 module another one is GaA 900 modules then we have GaN modules which has been built by astra microwave then scaled up uttam for su-30 mki
Coming to an/apg-79 radar its cooling is air version bcoz its GaN based which has less heat generation so why unnecessarily increase weight but KLJ-7A and uttam are GaA based so here cooling will be better by liquid ones

 

[DumbPilot]

@xmanm when he finds out that radar power on consumer brochures doesn't mean jack in real combat, and that fanboying over false or made up numbers won't win aerial combats without proper tactics or doctrine:

As an example:

Here is real comms from an air exercise between contract aggressors and F-35s from the Marine Corps. The aircraft on display in the map are the contract aggressors, and the comms are from the F35s. The F-35 pilots are getting off shots on all of the aggressors without any issues(they're calling out Fox-3s: AIM-120 shots).

One great thing to see is their brevity. Terms like "pitbull"(fired missile is now tracking target with its own radar) really fasten up the comm flow(which results in a better OODA loop)

This is interesting because this captured on open frequency, probably using a webSDR or his own. This has potential because if IAF uses open frequencies we can listen in onto their exercises and see how they communicate, which could be enlightening about how their flow works

 

[rone]

@xmanm when he finds out that radar power on consumer brochures doesn't mean jack in real combat, and that fanboying over false or made up numbers won't win aerial combats without proper tactics or doctrine: View attachment 199119

As an example:

Here is real comms from an air exercise between contract aggressors and F-35s from the Marine Corps. The aircraft on display in the map are the contract aggressors, and the comms are from the F35s. The F-35 pilots are getting off shots on all of the aggressors without any issues(they're calling out Fox-3s: AIM-120 shots).

One great thing to see is their brevity. Terms like "pitbull"(fired missile is now tracking target with its own radar) really fasten up the comm flow(which results in a better OODA loop)

This is interesting because this captured on open frequency, probably using a webSDR or his own. This has potential because if IAF uses open frequencies we can listen in onto their exercises and see how they communicate, which could be enlightening about how their flow works

f35 used 6 fox3's all these contracted aggressors mostly 3.5 gen aircraft's so if adversary bring more aircraft with decent missile they may can counter the 5th gen, if listen carefully u can see effective firing envelope of aim120D ( min 1:58 to 2:5) nightmare one 1 ( f35 flight lead ) ask zeus ( ground control or awac ) about update on east group ( bandits identified ) zeus replay with their headings, separation and altitude, Zeus replay single group ( single bandit pair ) bullseye ( in area of engagement ) 147 ( angles) 108( miles (not sure if its miles but it usaf they use miles) separation) 21k feet( altitude ) heading north, then a millisecond later nightmare 4 ( f35 flight 4 ) calls out fox3 on east group 3 seconds later confirming kills, so which means aim120D have 173.809 km effective firing envelope.

this is mostly 4 on 4 enagment, even in last they go fox2 which means the bandits mange to getting in to WVR range,lol

 

[DumbPilot]

f35 used 6 fox3's all these contracted aggressors mostly 3.5 gen aircraft's so if adversary bring more aircraft with decent missile they may can counter the 5th gen, if listen carefully u can see effective firing envelope of aim120D ( min 1:58 to 2:5) nightmare one 1 ( f35 flight lead ) ask zeus ( ground control or awac ) about update on east group ( bandits identified ) zeus replay with their headings, separation and altitude, Zeus replay single group ( single bandit pair ) bullseye ( in area of engagement ) 147 ( angles) 108( miles (not sure if its miles but it usaf they use miles) separation) 21k feet( altitude ) heading north, then a millisecond later nightmare 4 ( f35 flight 4 ) calls out fox3 on east group 3 seconds later confirming kills, so which means aim120D have 173.809 km effective firing envelope.

this is mostly 4 on 4 enagment, even in last they go fox2 which means the bandits mange to getting in to WVR range,lol

Brother that's distance from bullseye not the plane itself. If the AWACS was talking about the relative distance and azimuth from a specific group or aircraft, he would have used "BRAA XYZ ABC miles angels 123 aspect hot/cold". BRAA => Bearing Range Azimuth Aspect from a specific aircraft

Bullseye is the from a point that all the friendlies can compute because it stays fixed at one place, so this really isn't conclusive of what the firing range of the AIM120C/D whatever is.

There is also the fact that in these exercises the "BLUEFOR" aircraft have limited missile ranges or limited rules of engagement, as compared to aggressor crafts

My point was about how quickly they were exchanging information. Initial commit -> first missile launch was only like 3-4 minutes. In John Boyd's theory, he said that whichever side is able to exchange information, effectively, quicker than the other, will have a faster reaction time. Eventually this relative gap in reaction times will increase, and at one point no matter what the enemy does, the difference in this timing means the enemy will lose.

 

[Love Charger]

Why ?? Uk and France were larger economy than us just few years ago ! How many jets do they have??

Paki numbers are a joke since they have stopped retiring old mirage 3-5 which are totally obsolete and barely flying.

Meanwhile a single rafale can perform twice the mission role of Mirage 2000 which can perform twice the mission role of older f7/ m3/ m5 .

Besides we have had a great expansion of surface to ait capacity with akash , mrsam , qrsam and s400 . Which have replaced necessity of point defence fighters like mig21 to large extent.

But I agree to deal with China we need more numbers. But against Pakistan we are already overkill.

Uk and France were larger economies than USA, yes indeed 90 years is a few years to you buddy
USA has been the largest economy since end of ww2, the literally gave money rebuilt destroyed nations in Europe and also to Japan.

 

[Blademaster]

Uk and France were larger economies than USA, yes indeed 90 years is a few years to you buddy
USA has been the largest economy since end of ww2, the literally gave money rebuilt destroyed nations in Europe and also to Japan.

No. US was the largest economy since the 1890s. That's 132 years ago.

 

[singhboy98]

Uk and France were larger economies than USA, yes indeed 90 years is a few years to you buddy
USA has been the largest economy since end of ww2, the literally gave money rebuilt destroyed nations in Europe and also to Japan.

He means "us" as in India. "US" is used when referring to the Americans.

 

[Naga4Peace2021]

Is there a separate thread for special mission aircrafts & helicopters of our Military?

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Is there a separate thread for special mission aircrafts & helicopters of our Military?

There is no 160th SOAR equivalent unit in the first place.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

As for the evidence, if you say that KLJ-7A is unreliable to use air cooling, you have to use its power. Besides, not only KLJ-7A, but also F-18E/F will use air cooling radar in the future.

Besides, UTTAM is a radar that has just been tested for 250 hours on an aircraft, it's too early to talk about it, and India doesn't have any experience in developing airborne radars yet

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars The DARIN-III upgrade with AESA radar and the works.

 

[binayak95]

There is no 160th SOAR equivalent unit in the first place.

Kya bolte ho. I have met 3 helo pilots. There are 2 HUs in the IA that do exclusively SF mission profiles. The IAF also has a dedicated joint training wing for fixed and rotary birds and SF

 

[jai jaganath]

In the first part, you said that China’s data is unreliable, and in the second part, you said that the US air combat password is very concise. Does this have anything to do with what we discussed? At least I quoted official data, and you are just guessing for no reason. After all, you only would say that China lied,
, I can quote the data of the Argentine Air Force, JF-17 using unreliable Chinese avionics and rubbish Russian engines, but his flight cost is only 7600$, but using mature American engines and Western avionics Tejas, flying The cost is as high as 12,000$, which is higher than the F-16. Of course, this still uses the 2052 radar. If it is replaced by UTTAM, it may be even higher
View attachment 199530

Pls check the previous pages of tejas thread
It's again outdated data collected by some argentine official from open source
It was during its flight tests and nearly in period before of 2016

 

[jai jaganath]

There is a Chinese saying that don’t listen to what he said, but listen to what he did. The ghost knows that UTTAM has reached that stage. After all, anyone can make a good-looking PPT.

No need of ghost to know when it's integrated in an lsp and tested and gained many certifications from our authorities that's why Baseline 750+ tr modules was kept as tech demonstrator rather 900+ tr modules for being integrated for mk1a
And moreover ground testing of GaN modules has started
Just a general question how many tr modules in KLJ-7A
Just a general question

 

[jai jaganath]

You don't want to talk nonsense here, the data I quoted is from 2022, and this topic has been started since 2013,

That data is old data published by Argentinian authorities for parliamentary proceedings from open source which is outdated not by hal
It's u who is speaking nonsense pls do go and check previous threads rather bringing up discussions again

 

[AnantS]

You don't want to talk nonsense here, the data I quoted is from 2022, and this topic has been started since 2013,

The only non sense is your comprehension skills. What he is saying is Argentinian forces gleaned that old data from prolly circa 2016 when the jet was still in development. Its absurd a single engine operational fighter jet shall have flying hour cost equivalent to twin engine. Had it been the case IAF would have dug its heels and would have adamantly rejected LCA and ordered more twin engined aircraft or gone for gripen.
LCA tejas would have flying hour costs similar to Gripen.

 

[Super falcon]

Since India is very happy with us made weapons why india does not choose Wedgetail's as these are far superior than iaf netra and phalcon awacs which India bought from israel and India has so much room for thesse aircraft requirements



Is there any chance India may go for them as Indian def minister highlighted after meeting with us def secretary that new news with more us weapons are coming soon this might be Wedgetail's as iaf darely require more powerfull awacs