Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Dark Sorrow]

Its shame we retired those topulev 142 naval anti ship planes.

Those aircraft where having lot of maintenance issues.
Their avionics were obsolete and had no upgrade path.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Dark Sorrow's 2 Cents

If we want a cheap bomb truck to carry our hyper-sonic missiles we can use our transport planes like C-17, C-295 and C-130.

USAF had used C-130 to drop GBU-43/B MOAB.

 

[Blademaster]

Dark Sorrow's 2 Cents

If we want a cheap bomb truck to carry our hyper-sonic missiles we can use our transport planes like C-17, C-295 and C-130.

USAF had used C-130 to drop GBU-43/B MOAB.

Or convert old 747s and 777s into bomb trucks. Just modify the bottom to drop bombs or insert bomb ejecting racks into the side of the planes where bombs would be ejected sideways.

 

[binayak95]

Dark Sorrow's 2 Cents

If we want a cheap bomb truck to carry our hyper-sonic missiles we can use our transport planes like C-17, C-295 and C-130.

USAF had used C-130 to drop GBU-43/B MOAB.

not to mention P8Is.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

not to mention P8Is.

The reason I doubt P8I is because their isn't a big cargo-bay.
Their is only one small weapons bay.

 

[binayak95]

The reason I doubt P8I is because their isn't a big cargo-bay.
Their is only one small weapons bay.

View attachment 167028

Decent sized to carry 6 Nirbhay sized cruise missiles all the same.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Decent sized to carry 6 Nirbhay sized cruise missiles all the same.

Retired ACM was talking with hyper-sonic weapons and air launched BM in mind. Such weapons will be bulky and heavy.

If we have to fire Nirbhay then MKI and in Future AMCA will be more effective than P8.
MKI can be expected to carry up to 3 Nirbhay.

 

[IndianHawk]

Before you completely destroy the AD network and all Chinese interceptors in the battlefield, you can't put bombers into the hostile area.

Ofcourse . But bombers can take longer routes forcing chinese to guard all sides distributing their assets widely.

Bomber can also launch huge solvo of cruise missiles from standoff distances.

 

[Super Flanker]

Lately I have been hearing reports that India is interested in acquiring TU-160 bombers from Russia. IMO, the TU-160 is a very capable platform.

TU-160 has the capability to fire Raduga Kh-55 series cruise missiles and AS-16 Kickback short-range nuclear missiles. AS-16 has an operational range of 300 km (160 nmi), KH-55 is said to have a maximum range of 2,500 km (1,300 nmi). So out of these two types of missiles, it is the Kh-55 series which provides the best stand off ability due to its huge range of 2000+ kms. IMO, if India is interested in buying these bombers and if the Russians are willing to sell these to us then TU-160 is a good option.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Lately I have been hearing reports that India is interested in acquiring TU-160 bombers from Russia. IMO, the TU-160 is a very capable platform.

TU-160 has the capability to fire Raduga Kh-55 series cruise missiles and AS-16 Kickback short-range nuclear missiles. AS-16 has an operational range of 300 km (160 nmi), KH-55 is said to have a maximum range of 2,500 km (1,300 nmi). So out of these two types of missiles, it is the Kh-55 series which provides the best stand off ability due to its huge range of 2000+ kms. IMO, if India is interested in buying these bombers and if the Russians are willing to sell these to us then TU-160 is a good option.

Ghatak UCAV will be our trump card. If the objectives are achieved an enlarged version can be manufactured.
Drone with substantial payload.

 

[Blademaster]

Ghatak UCAV will be our trump card. If the objectives are achieved an enlarged version can be manufactured.
Drone with substantial payload.

To pull that off, we need satellite linking capability and that means we need 24 hours/days 7 days/week 365 days/year continuous coverage of satellites over China and Pakistan and we need to launch a whole lot of them in low orbit.

 

[swapcv]

All this talk about us acquiring any Strategic Bomber/Carrier is just drunken bumkum. We neither have the budget, nor the political will to execute such a deal. Also, the options available for us wrt to airframes are limited notwithstanding the associated attachment of strings that come with such deals, more so wrt to the Tu-160 (CAATSA etc.).

 

[Johny_Baba]

Internet reporting that the Russians have started building prototype of their PAK DA next-gen bomber, with aim to make first flight in 2024.
Already they were discussing components being built jointly by UAC and Tupolev for some prototypes, they also filed patents etc.

If it makes breakthrough and IF we are going to end up with Tu-160, it would be interesting to see as both things might overlap in future...

 

[Super Flanker]

Ghatak UCAV will be our trump card. If the objectives are achieved an enlarged version can be manufactured.
Drone with substantial payload.

OK. So Basically you are trying to say that if Ghatak UCAV is successful then we can make a larger unmanned/manned bomber over its base design?

I don't know how much payload such a design will be able to carry but looking at current situation, the TU-160 is a good option. The amount of payload that it can carry is just "spectacular".

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

OK. So Basically you are trying to say that if Ghatak UCAV is successful then we can make a larger unmanned/manned bomber over its base design?

I don't know how much payload such a design will be able to carry but looking at current situation, the TU-160 is a good option. The amount of payload that it can carry is just "spectacular".

No way we are going to get TU - 160. It will be expensive as hell. I can say even buying single digit number of these planes will have same price of 114 MRFA jets.

Currently we are not going to lease or buy it.

In Future
1. ADA and HAL may develop some bomber design.
2. Maximizing CATS tech.
3. Developing UCAV Ghatak based aircraft with complete autonomy.

Don't build hope because IAF will break within a second.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

To pull that off, we need satellite linking capability and that means we need 24 hours/days 7 days/week 365 days/year continuous coverage of satellites over China and Pakistan and we need to launch a whole lot of them in low orbit.

Is it we demonstrate Satcom in TAPAS which helps to land and take off automatically. We have the tech in our hand right now, lets say if we have functional ETOPS (Currently going to be tested), Reliable Kaveri engine and good control laws for the aircraft. We already had some building blocks. For long range application we may need to increase IRNSS systems.

 

[Super Flanker]

No way we are going to get TU - 160. It will be expensive as hell. I can say even buying single digit number of these planes will have same price of 114 MRFA jets.

Currently we are not going to lease or buy it.

In Future
1. ADA and HAL may develop some bomber design.
2. Maximizing CATS tech.
3. Developing UCAV Ghatak based aircraft with complete autonomy.

Don't build hope because IAF will break within a second.

I searched on the internet with regards to "per unit" cost of TU-160 and I have a few sources here quoting the cost of bombers ordered by the Russian Airforce. If in a hypothetical scenario we buy these bombers from Russia, then we will acquire them in fly away cost. So the per unit cost which we would have to pay would be comparible to what RuAF is paying for these Bombers.

Coming to the Sources. Here is one source :-

Russia’s First New Production Tu-160 Blackjack In Decades Makes Its Maiden Flight (Updated)

Completed to the latest upgraded standard, the new-build Tu-160M is set to bolster Russia’s Long-Range Aviation force.

www.thedrive.com

"At the time, the unit cost of each new bomber was put at around $270 million, and the first example was expected to be ready in 2021. Russian Aerospace Forces have declared a requirement for at least 50 new-build Tu-160M aircraft, although so far no further orders have been placed."

So above article is putting the cost of TU-160 per unit at 270 million dollars. Now let's say that if we buy acquire TU-160 at 270 million dollars per unit cost then :

If we decide to buy 10 bombers, it will 270 × 10, which is equal to 2700 million dollars, which when converted to billion will be 2.7 billion dollars.

Now if we decide to buy 20 Bombers then it will double of the above calculation which is 5.4 billion dollars.

Now coming to the cost of 114 jets under MRFA then the figures of all planes is being quoted as 14-15 billion dollars and above on internet Sources. Even if TU-160 costs around 300 million dollars a unit then too the cost of buying atleast 20 units will be way less than that of entire MRFA cost.

Links :-

'Selected vendor for multi-role fighter aircraft programme will have to ensure tech transfer': IAF

NEW DELHI: The winner of the Indian Air Force's mega project to procure 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) will have to ensure the transfer of technology as

www.newindianexpress.com

Indian Air Force will focus on ₹1.3 lakh crore deal for 114 fighter jets

The Request for Information (RFI) has been responded to by several global players including fighter jet manufacturers from the US, France, Russia and Sweden

www.livemint.com

India begins process to buy 114 fighter planes in world’s largest deal

The deal -- valued at more than $15 billion -- has attracted initial offers from global defence majors, including Boeing Co., Lockheed Martin Corp. and Sweden’s Saab AB.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

I searched on the internet with regards to "per unit" cost of TU-160 and I have a few sources here quoting the cost of bombers ordered by the Russian Airforce. If in a hypothetical scenario we buy these bombers from the Russia, then we will acquire them in fly away cost. So the per unit cost which we would have to pay would be comparible to what RuAF is paying for these Bombers.

Coming to the Sources. Here is one source :-

Russia’s First New Production Tu-160 Blackjack In Decades Makes Its Maiden Flight (Updated)

Completed to the latest upgraded standard, the new-build Tu-160M is set to bolster Russia’s Long-Range Aviation force.

www.thedrive.com

"At the time, the unit cost of each new bomber was put at around $270 million, and the first example was expected to be ready in 2021. Russian Aerospace Forces have declared a requirement for at least 50 new-build Tu-160M aircraft, although so far no further orders have been placed."

So above article is putting the cost of TU-160 per unit at 270 million dollars. Now let's say that if we buy acquire TU-160 at 270 million dollars per unit cost then :

If we decide to buy 10 bombers, it will 270 × 10, which is equal to 2700 million dollars, which when converted to billion will be 2.7 billion dollars.

Now if we decide to buy 20 Bombers then it will double of the above calculation which is 5.4 billion dollars.

Now coming to the cost of 114 jets under MRFA then the figures of all planes is being quoted as 14-15 billion dollars and above on internet Sources. Even if TU-160 costs around 300 million dollars a unit then too the cost of buying atleast 20 units will be way less than that of entire MRFA cost.

Links :-

'Selected vendor for multi-role fighter aircraft programme will have to ensure tech transfer': IAF

NEW DELHI: The winner of the Indian Air Force's mega project to procure 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) will have to ensure the transfer of technology as

www.newindianexpress.com

Indian Air Force will focus on ₹1.3 lakh crore deal for 114 fighter jets

The Request for Information (RFI) has been responded to by several global players including fighter jet manufacturers from the US, France, Russia and Sweden

www.livemint.com

India begins process to buy 114 fighter planes in world’s largest deal

The deal -- valued at more than $15 billion -- has attracted initial offers from global defence majors, including Boeing Co., Lockheed Martin Corp. and Sweden’s Saab AB.

www.hindustantimes.com

These are just unit prices, RuAF does not have to pay for infrastructure, logistics and training costs since those elements are already in place, whereas IAF never operated anything remotely close to the Tu-160, so that $2.7 billion figure will easily shoot up to $5 billion when you factor in all the required infrastructure that needs to maintain and support these Tu-160.

 

[Super Flanker]

These are just unit prices, RuAF does not have to pay for infrastructure, logistics and training costs since those elements are already in place, whereas IAF never operated anything remotely close to the Tu-160, so that $2.7 billion figure will easily shoot up to $5 billion when you factor in all the required infrastructure that needs to maintain and support these Tu-160.

I mean it is not like that we will buy these planes in large numbers as such. But still, regardless of that, the cost of 10-20 Airframes will be less than the entire cost of MRFA as we speak. Coming to logistics, Infrastructure, I think so that instead of developing all that, we can directly outsource all spare parts, Weopons from the Russians etc. As of now, we are looking to "leasing" and not "Buying". Leasing these bomber is much cheaper and Better option than "buying". Ofcource provided the Russians agree to our demands.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

I searched on the internet with regards to "per unit" cost of TU-160 and I have a few sources here quoting the cost of bombers ordered by the Russian Airforce. If in a hypothetical scenario we buy these bombers from Russia, then we will acquire them in fly away cost. So the per unit cost which we would have to pay would be comparible to what RuAF is paying for these Bombers.

Coming to the Sources. Here is one source :-

Russia’s First New Production Tu-160 Blackjack In Decades Makes Its Maiden Flight (Updated)

Completed to the latest upgraded standard, the new-build Tu-160M is set to bolster Russia’s Long-Range Aviation force.

www.thedrive.com

"At the time, the unit cost of each new bomber was put at around $270 million, and the first example was expected to be ready in 2021. Russian Aerospace Forces have declared a requirement for at least 50 new-build Tu-160M aircraft, although so far no further orders have been placed."

So above article is putting the cost of TU-160 per unit at 270 million dollars. Now let's say that if we buy acquire TU-160 at 270 million dollars per unit cost then :

If we decide to buy 10 bombers, it will 270 × 10, which is equal to 2700 million dollars, which when converted to billion will be 2.7 billion dollars.

Now if we decide to buy 20 Bombers then it will double of the above calculation which is 5.4 billion dollars.

Now coming to the cost of 114 jets under MRFA then the figures of all planes is being quoted as 14-15 billion dollars and above on internet Sources. Even if TU-160 costs around 300 million dollars a unit then too the cost of buying atleast 20 units will be way less than that of entire MRFA cost.

Links :-

'Selected vendor for multi-role fighter aircraft programme will have to ensure tech transfer': IAF

NEW DELHI: The winner of the Indian Air Force's mega project to procure 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) will have to ensure the transfer of technology as

www.newindianexpress.com

Indian Air Force will focus on ₹1.3 lakh crore deal for 114 fighter jets

The Request for Information (RFI) has been responded to by several global players including fighter jet manufacturers from the US, France, Russia and Sweden

www.livemint.com

India begins process to buy 114 fighter planes in world’s largest deal

The deal -- valued at more than $15 billion -- has attracted initial offers from global defence majors, including Boeing Co., Lockheed Martin Corp. and Sweden’s Saab AB.

www.hindustantimes.com

Russians always sell planes in flyaway cost to anyone. Thus it suffers from spares and every issue they need to have russian help.

Coming to TU - 160. Serial Production consists of only 36. Lastly I think they are not producing new airframes they are upgrading existing frames. So they are not going to sell it or lease compromising their capability since it carries heavier payload among Russian Bombers.

Secondly as @Aniruddha Mulay said we never operate anything this size aircraft. Last bomber type aircraft we operated is English electric Canberra. Tu 160 is something bigger, badder than canberra.

Russians on the other hand tries to sell TU-22M backfire to us. Since they produced 497 airframes.

TU22M can carry 24 tonnes of payload and combat range of 2500 Km with ability to refuel to extend its time in air.

Again these are all speculations. Current IAF chief priority is more on 114 MRFA.