Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[mist_consecutive]

According to reliable "telegram" group... a serious brainstorming is going in higher echelons of IAF regarding... which jet will replace the mig-21bis in the No. 51 sqd "sword arm"?

At 1st it was thought that the MK1 FOC(but lack of AESA became spoiler)... then MK1A was weighed... & now Rafale from the follow on batch being considered.

Of all the mig-21 squadrons... the replacement for the 51 is most critical bcoz of the theatre it is located in.

I don't know the veracity of your "telegram" group, but playing with it anyway.

First, No. 51 Sqn has the Mig-21 Bison variant, not Bis variant.
Second, after Balakot, Srinagar AFB has a permanent detachment of Su-30MKIs for ORPs, along with Mig-21s, and it is likely to continue till a suitable replacement is found (Mk-1/1A).

Yeah right. Ask that source if his bull$hit can stretch the hardened air shelters in AFS Srinagar to fit a Rafale in it.

What are you saying? HAS (not all, but many) of Srinagar can fit even Su-30MKI, Rafale is much smaller.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

I don't know the veracity of your "telegram" group, but playing with it anyway.

First, No. 51 Sqn has the Mig-21 Bison variant, not Bis variant.
Second, after Balakot, Srinagar AFB has a permanent detachment of Su-30MKIs for ORPs, along with Mig-21s, and it is likely to continue till a suitable replacement is found (Mk-1/1A).



What are you saying? HAS (not all, but many) of Srinagar can fit even Su-30MKI, Rafale is much smaller.

Just checked, looks like there are indeed HAS for Su-30MKI in AFS Srinagar. But back in Balakote time, we didn't have them, I think. I remember reading an article about it. Anyways, these must be the new NG-HAS that got built after Balakote.

EDIT:-
NG HAS for Su-30MKI possibly constructed after Balakote.

Photo is from AFS Srinagar

Article stating there were no HAS for Su-30 MKI in AFS Srinagar:-

Lack of hardened aircraft shelters for Su-30s forced India to respond to PAF intrusion with MiG-21s first - The Aviation Geek Club

Lack of hardened aircraft shelters for Su-30s forced India to respond to PAF intrusion with MiG-21s first

theaviationgeekclub.com

 

[mist_consecutive]

Just checked, looks like there are indeed HAS for Su-30MKI in AFS Srinagar. But back in Balakote time, we didn't have them, I think. I remember reading an article about it. Anyways, these must be the new NG-HAS that got built after Balakote.

EDIT:-
NG HAS for Su-30MKI possibly constructed after Balakote.
View attachment 120297
Photo is from AFS Srinagar

No, it existed during Balakot. Infact not a single NG-HAS has not been built in Srinagar AFB, other frontline airbases are getting 2 (ridiculously small number) per base.

Article stating there were no HAS for Su-30 MKI in AFS Srinagar:-

Lack of hardened aircraft shelters for Su-30s forced India to respond to PAF intrusion with MiG-21s first - The Aviation Geek Club

Lack of hardened aircraft shelters for Su-30s forced India to respond to PAF intrusion with MiG-21s first

theaviationgeekclub.com

Okay, I read the original Hindu's article (which this article pointed to) about lack of blast pens. And it is completely wrong.

They attributed the lack of forward deployment of Su-30MKI (false information, they were deployed) to lack of HAS at Srinagar AFB, and we had to use Mig-21s instead.
We still deploy Mig-21s for ORPs because it has the best response time of any IAF aircraft, from cold start to takeoff, not to mention the role of Mig-21 is literally that, point defense.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

No, it existed during Balakot. Infact not a single NG-HAS has not been built in Srinagar AFB, other frontline airbases are getting 2 (ridiculously small number) per base.




Okay, I read the original Hindu's article (which this article pointed to) about lack of blast pens. And it is completely wrong.

They attributed the lack of forward deployment of Su-30MKI (false information, they were deployed) to lack of HAS at Srinagar AFB, and we had to use Mig-21s instead.
We still deploy Mig-21s for ORPs because it has the best response time of any IAF aircraft, from cold start to takeoff, not to mention the role of Mig-21 is literally that, point defense.

Are you sure not a single NG HAS has been built at Srinagar? I am counting 14 HAS that look like they could be new. They definitely do fit a Su-30 MKI, can see four of them standing near the shelters. There are four HAS clusters, one towards the Southern end of the runway seems to have seven smaller shelters. Then there is a second cluster of two smaller shelters near the main terminal on its south and towards east of runway.

Then there is a third cluster of twelve shelters out of which at least two appear to be the smaller variants with the rest being the larger ones. This cluster is on the other side of the runway from the second cluster. To its West. This is the cluster that has Su-30 standing around.

North of the main terminal is another set of four shelters that all appear to be new and large enough for the Su-30 MKI.

Prior to the NG HAS construction, there weren't many large hardened shelters capable of holding Su-30 MKI. So the fact that majority of these shelters appear to be large enough for Su-30MKI should mean that they are newly constructed NG HAS.

BTW, the Su-30 MKI during the PAF attack were on a CAP. Do you know which squadron or airbase they were from?

 

[mist_consecutive]

Are you sure not a single NG HAS has been built at Srinagar? I am counting 14 HAS that look like they could be new. They definitely do fit a Su-30 MKI, can see four of them standing near the shelters. There are four HAS clusters, one towards the Southern end of the runway seems to have seven smaller shelters. Then there is a second cluster of two smaller shelters near the main terminal on its south and towards east of runway.

Then there is a third cluster of twelve shelters out of which at least two appear to be the smaller variants with the rest being the larger ones. This cluster is on the other side of the runway from the second cluster. To its West. This is the cluster that has Su-30 standing around.

North of the main terminal is another set of four shelters that all appear to be new and large enough for the Su-30 MKI.

Prior to the NG HAS construction, there weren't many large hardened shelters capable of holding Su-30 MKI. So the fact that majority of these shelters appear to be large enough for Su-30MKI should mean that they are newly constructed NG HAS.

Example of NG-HAS beside older HAS at Halwara AFS. I think you can tell which ones are NG-HAS.

Just to verify, I checked again, and I am correct. Just open Google Earth Pro (Desktop version), click on historical images, drag the slider to anytime before 2019, and see for yourself.

BTW, the Su-30 MKI during the PAF attack were on a CAP. Do you know which squadron or airbase they were from?

It was either No. 221 (Valiants) from Halwara or No. 30 (Rhinos) from Pune, can't recall correctly.
It was No. 15 Squadron from Sirsa AFB.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Example of NG-HAS beside older HAS at Halwara AFS. I think you can tell which ones are NG-HAS.

Just to verify, I checked again, and I am correct. Just open Google Earth Pro (Desktop version), click on historical images, drag the slider to anytime before 2019, and see for yourself.



It was either No. 221 (Valiants) from Halwara or No. 30 (Rhinos) from Pune, can't recall correctly.
It was No. 15 Squadron from Sirsa AFB.

Thanks. This is quite possibly the first and maybe only image of NG HAS. Been scouring all over the net for this.
Found something else interesting:-

Source: https://idsa.in/system/files/book/combat-aviation-book-khera.pdf
So those large HAS in AFS Srinagar must be the old HAS mentioned in this book. This is something none of those news articles (citing that one parliamentary committee report) decrying lack of HAS for Su-30 MKI mentioned. Heck I was convinced that we had no HAS for Su-30 MKI at all, before NG HAS were ordered.

As far as I know, older HAS only had capability to withstand 1000 pound hits. Only NG HAS can withstand 2000 pound hits.

Also, had no idea, Barak-8 has been deployed in AFS Srinagar for months already:-

Spoiler: Barak-8 in Srinagar

 

[mist_consecutive]

Thanks. This is quite possibly the first and maybe only image of NG HAS. Been scouring all over the net for this.
Found something else interesting:-

View attachment 120308

Source: https://idsa.in/system/files/book/combat-aviation-book-khera.pdf
So those large HAS in AFS Srinagar must be the old HAS mentioned in this book. This is something none of those news articles (citing that one parliamentary committee report) decrying lack of HAS for Su-30 MKI mentioned. Heck I was convinced that we had no HAS for Su-30 MKI at all, before NG HAS were ordered.

As far as I know, older HAS only had capability to withstand 1000 pound hits. Only NG HAS can withstand 2000 pound hits.

Also, had no idea, Barak-8 has been deployed in AFS Srinagar for months already:-

Spoiler: Barak-8 in Srinagar

Actually as of today, there are a lot (2 per base) NG-HAS in most of the AF bases. Only in J&K, there is no NG-HAS, Udhampur has something similar made, but not sure if that will be called NG-HAS or regular HAS.

Also, for MRSAM, it has been also been deployed in Leh, as well as all NE airbases.
But this is the first time I am seeing a picture of the battery !

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Actually as of today, there are a lot (2 per base) NG-HAS in most of the AF bases. Only in J&K, there is no NG-HAS, Udhampur has something similar made, but not sure if that will be called NG-HAS or regular HAS.

Also, for MRSAM, it has been also been deployed in Leh, as well as all NE airbases.
But this is the first time I am seeing a picture of the battery !

News reports say NG HAS construction funding came in 2019. Funding was for 108 HAS. So if its 2 per airbase and there are around 50-60 airbases, does that mean that we managed to build 108 NG HAS in just two years despite the pandemic! Damn!
But what now? Shouldn't they be ordering more NG HAS to replace older HAS that can't withstand 2000 pound bombs?

Waiting to see pak osint give us images of S-400 now lol. BTW How many Batteries of MR SAM do we have in service now?

 

[The Shrike]

Most of those "NG HAS" were built before 2019 itself IIRC. I never got the logic behind 2 per air base, but I don't think there has been any massive build up of hardened shelters in the last couple of years.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Most of those "NG HAS" were built before 2019 itself IIRC. I never got the logic behind 2 per air base, but I don't think there has been any massive build up of hardened shelters in the last couple of years.

Can't be.

Sukhois hobbled by lack of blast pens near LoC

Hence they could not be sent to intercept PAF jets.

www.thehindu.com

Eye on Chinese Army, nod to shelters for IAF fighter jets on border

Majority of the hardened shelters will be designed to house the Russian made Su-30MKi jets – the mainstay of IAF’s fighters. In 2016, a parliamentary committee on defence pointed to the fact that IAF did not have protective shelters to keep the Su-30Mki.

www.hindustantimes.com

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

These articles clearly state that NG HAS was approved only in 2017 and funding released in 2019. Back in 2016, the parliamentary committee noted the lack of HAS.

So all the NG HAS have only been built after 2019.

 

[shiphone]

an obvious evidence to disprove , which is not difficult to get at all .

aeroplane shed for NG fighers first,then came the 'two' bigger 'HAS' in most bases during the last decade...

 

[The Shrike]

Can't be.

Sukhois hobbled by lack of blast pens near LoC

Hence they could not be sent to intercept PAF jets.

www.thehindu.com

Eye on Chinese Army, nod to shelters for IAF fighter jets on border

Majority of the hardened shelters will be designed to house the Russian made Su-30MKi jets – the mainstay of IAF’s fighters. In 2016, a parliamentary committee on defence pointed to the fact that IAF did not have protective shelters to keep the Su-30Mki.

www.hindustantimes.com

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

These articles clearly state that NG HAS was approved only in 2017 and funding released in 2019. Back in 2016, the parliamentary committee noted the lack of HAS.

So all the NG HAS have only been built after 2019.

Going by satellite images most of them were built before 2019 (assuming of course that NG HAS is in fact what we think it is). These are some example images from GE history layer. Actually i have not seen too much activity on this regard in the last couple of years (I could be wrong of course).

Halwara late 2015

Adampur early 2016

Jodhpur Mid 2016

 

[Super Flanker]

IAF needs it's own western publicist, Pak has got Alan Warnes and China has Rupprecht Deino.

Yes bro, you are right , Pakistan and China have their own Western Experts and we must have our very own as well. Hopefully We will Very soon.

 

[Ayushraj]

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[Love Charger]

Ya'll Nibbiars

Beautiful halde , but apko ye pic kaha se mile ?

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[FalconZero]

View attachment 120842View attachment 120843View attachment 120844View attachment 120845

Are those IAF guys? They are using multimedia phone? Security reasons?
Also,

Spoiler: ....

Don't lie, i know why you posted the first pic. Pakis really know how to advertise their products.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Are those IAF guys? They are using multimedia phone? Security reasons?
Also,

Spoiler: ....

View attachment 120851
Don't lie, i know why you posted the first pic. Pakis really know how to advertise their products.

Yes IAF guys on a Paki stall, looks like they’re playing there as if they’re friendly airforces.
Would’nt have expecte this between the armies tho.

 

[vishnugupt]

Air Force To Start Upgrading Rafale Fighter Fleet From January 2022: Report – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Rafale will be upgraded from Jan-2022 onwards, means there is no Indian specific at present.

This also means UNAF ordered Rafale in 2016 and paid money but waiting patiently for upgrade.

Can anybody remind me such generosity ever had been shown towards Indian product by UN Armed forces ???

PSUs are ready to deliver free of cost but still UN Armed forces are not ready to give orders... What happened to all those urgent and immediate requirement about.... Platus trainer, Attack helicopter after Kargil, LUH, Artillery guns, and hundreds others .....