India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

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can u give details on the difference between these T 90 ie indian t90 vs russian t 90 ..........

russian t90 do not produce the problems as those of indian t90...
watered down complectation in tot i guess...

 

[Bahamut]

The su-30 deal could not bring much to the tot,lets see how this one goes.

Read this article
http://idrw.org/why-sukhoi-30mki-procurement-has-been-dubbed-as-mistake/
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Read this article
http://idrw.org/why-sukhoi-30mki-procurement-has-been-dubbed-as-mistake/
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i actually can not understand , when china can make copies and still russia made no objection , even providing engines for those copies....why not hal ??

 

[Kchontha]

i actually can not understand , when china can make copies and still russia made no objection , even providing engines for those copies....why not hal ??

These types of things happen only in India. We can cite a metaphor of the good boy India never passing an exam while the bad boy Chinese not only passing the exam but also with distinction. India has a history of first building a sub with German help then later with French help but still requiring foreign help for next generation conventional diesel electric sub building. Isn't this funny; we can't blame anybody but ourselves for this shoddy affairs. Screwdriving is what our scientists and engineers are able to get from other country.

 

[Hari Sud]

These types of things happen only in India. We can cite a metaphor of the good boy India never passing an exam while the bad boy Chinese not only passing the exam but also with distinction. India has a history of first building a sub with German help then later with French help but still requiring foreign help for next generation conventional diesel electric sub building. Isn't this funny; we can't blame anybody but ourselves for this shoddy affairs. Screwdriving is what our scientists and engineer are able to get from other country.

the



Chinese got two level lower version. Russian will let them copy as long as they supplied the critical parts.

Russians as is coming clear from Saudi Arabian deal and elsewhere are not giving the best version of S-4000 but an export version. This version does not have all the critical features. This the Indian technical evaluation team found out before signing the export contract.

Mind it that the export version is as good but a few capabilities which India need would be missing for the high price.

 

[Adioz]

XR SAM will take 6 to 10 years for product development and deployment and BMD phase 2 won't be ready before 2025 latest probably longer S-400 is a requirement since we face a possible two front war .
No country will give you their weapons with full capability obviously it is going to be a slightly watered down version of S-400 .We need to negotiate hard and get the best possible version and remember we have good relationship with the Russians.

So what you are saying is that S-400 purchase is a stop-gap measure? Is this not pretty expensive for a stop gap measure? With the number of systems we are buying, it'll be possible to cover both the fronts with S-400. Looks like they are trying to kill XR-SAM, or maybe they just did not know about XR-SAM (this is why we need a Air Force design bureau)? IMHO, after buying the bare minimum of S-400 required, we'd definitely be better off spending the balance of the amount earmarked for current acquisition of S-400 on developing the XR-SAM.

can u give details on the difference between these T 90 ie indian t90 vs russian t 90 ..........

Russian T-90 has a vodka dispenser that Indian T-90 lacks. Apart from that, please try this thread:
Indian Army Armored Vehicles
since this is not the correct thread for this question.

These types of things happen only in India. We can cite a metaphor of the good boy India never passing an exam while the bad boy Chinese not only passing the exam but also with distinction. India has a history of first building a sub with German help then later with French help but still requiring foreign help for next generation conventional diesel electric sub building. Isn't this funny; we can't blame anybody but ourselves for this shoddy affairs. Screwdriving is what our scientists and engineer are able to get from other country.

I agree with the Chinese part, but it seems to me like you are blaming the scientists for this mess (forgive me if I am wrong about that).

Spoiler: Its not the scientists' fault that our MIC sucks

Its not the fault of just one part of the system. The entire system is at fault here. That system includes the politicians, bureaucrats, armed forces, PSUs, DRDO, media and the electorate.

Do you think that the geniuses at DRDO were not motivated people when they joined the organisation? Or doyou think that an IAS or IES aspirant is not motivated when he joins the bureaucracy?

While we built submarines with foreign help and are still doing that, do you think we have made no headway at all in submarine technology? So blue laser tech, AIP, Varunastra, USHS, K-15, K-4 and all the rest of the stuff is nothing?
Forget all that. What is Arihant? Is it not an Indian submarine?

 

[IndianHawk]

So what you are saying is that S-400 purchase is a stop-gap measure? Is this not pretty expensive for a stop gap measure?

Look at the way our own air defense systems are coming up. AKASH 1 ,2 , barak 8 , whatever happened to maitri. Upcoming SAM version of ASTRA.

S400 would serve is for 6-8 years in which time we must come up with at least similarly networked indegenious system .

So in that sense if we are not involved in future products with Russia like s500 and ahead.then S400 has to be a stop gap measure.

 

[Kalki_2018]

India needs to stop buying these imported downgraded toys. BMD phase-I should be made operational soon and XR-SAM expedited.

 

[Chinmoy]

So what you are saying is that S-400 purchase is a stop-gap measure? Is this not pretty expensive for a stop gap measure? With the number of systems we are buying, it'll be possible to cover both the fronts with S-400. Looks like they are trying to kill XR-SAM, or maybe they just did not know about XR-SAM (this is why we need a Air Force design bureau)? IMHO, after buying the bare minimum of S-400 required, we'd definitely be better off spending the balance of the amount earmarked for current acquisition of S-400 on developing the XR-SAM.

S-400 is not a stop gap solution.
XR-SAM would have the same range and capability of S-300. Looking at its strategic value, monetary value is not too high. Remember that previously we had opted for 12 regts, but later scaled it down to 5. Now thsi has been done by keeping in mind the monetary value only. Moreover majority of these 5 systems would be basically placed in Eastern front. As far as Western front is concerned, our other asset are capable to deal with it as of now.

 

[Adioz]

XR-SAM would have the same range and capability of S-300.

Word on the street is that XR-SAM is a S-400 equivalent in consideration.

Credits: @Willy2

I am actually drooling over the idea (my pet fantasy) of an XR-SAM with 400km range being deployed in Campbell Bay on Great Nicobar.

 

[Chinmoy]

Word on the street is that XR-SAM is a S-400 equivalent in consideration.

Credits: @Willy2

I am actually drooling over the idea (my pet fantasy) of an XR-SAM with 400km range being deployed in Campbell Bay on Great Nicobar.

Now look another report which has been doing round.

Nearly a year back in my article (How India is building an impregnable Air Defence coverage in Western sector) I had mentioned the development of a New Long Range Surface to air missile which was revealed by DRDO few years back. New missile had a reported range of 150 km to 200 km. Now Saurav Jha who is prominent Indian Defence Journalist in his latest tweet has confirmed the development of very long range Surface to air missile with a reported range of 250km dubbed as XRSAM. XRSAM will be used to bridge the gap between MR-SAM (70 km) and S-400 (400 km) Air Defence System and will be using spin-off technologies developed for countries Anti-Ballistic missile Defence system. DRDO is yet to confirm if XRSAM Air Defence Missile system will consist of one or two different type of missile system yet but there are unconfirmed reports indicating that system will be capable of simultaneously engaging cruise missiles, aircraft and ballistic targets, hinting of using two slightly different missile configuartion of same type . XRSAM Air Defence Missile system might utilize same network grid deployed for Anti-Ballistic missile Defence system and might be working as part of large umbrella air defence network grid consisting of ABM, S-400 and XRSAM surveillance ,guidance, tracking network of radars . XRSAM might be ready for developmental and engineering trials by 2020 .

http://idrw.org/xrsam-indias-next-generation-long-range-air-defence-missile-system/

Now read the underlined part. Interestingly both are quoting Sourav Jha.

 

[Kalki_2018]

How can such long range missiles be only ARH? They will need guidance till within 50 Km of the target?

 

[Adioz]

Now look another report which has been doing round.



http://idrw.org/xrsam-indias-next-generation-long-range-air-defence-missile-system/
http://idrw.org/xrsam-indias-next-generation-long-range-air-defence-missile-system/
Now read the underlined part. Interestingly both are quoting Sourav Jha.

Arre koi Jha sahib se poocho ki plan kya hai? This is so confusing.

 

[IndianHawk]

Word on the street is that XR-SAM is a S-400 equivalent in consideration.

Credits: @Willy2

I am actually drooling over the idea (my pet fantasy) of an XR-SAM with 400km range being deployed in Campbell Bay on Great Nicobar.

This post is actually talking about two systems. One with 250km and other with 400 know range. So maybe 250 km will come early and compliment s400 while we develop 400km version.

If we are not having a joint project with Russia for s500 then we will go further with our own .in next 10 years our missile range should be doubled . And we shall be capable of having a very advanced indegenious system on par with Russia.

 

[gadeshi]

Word on the street is that XR-SAM is a S-400 equivalent in consideration.

Credits: @Willy2

I am actually drooling over the idea (my pet fantasy) of an XR-SAM with 400km range being deployed in Campbell Bay on Great Nicobar.

S-400 main features are not range and KP only.
XR-SAM will not be so mobile and stealthy and will not have an equal network centric capabilities ever...

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[Chinmoy]

Arre koi Jha sahib se poocho ki plan kya hai? This is so confusing.

.... Actually its not so confusing if you start reading between lines and try to summarize up the whole idea behind XR-SAM. It has been envisioned after repeated successful trial of AAD. It is a derivative of AAD. So currently AAD does have a range of 120 km, so doubling up the range is the idea behind XR-SAM. So we could assume that it would be on par with S-300.

 

[Chinmoy]

How can such long range missiles be only ARH? They will need guidance till within 50 Km of the target?

ARH does act at terminal phase only. Before that it is guided by FCR.

 

[gadeshi]

.... Actually its not so confusing if you start reading between lines and try to summarize up the whole idea behind XR-SAM. It has been envisioned after repeated successful trial of AAD. It is a derivative of AAD. So currently AAD does have a range of 120 km, so doubling up the range is the idea behind XR-SAM. So we could assume that it would be on par with S-300.

Yes, it will be an equivalent of S-300PM-2 and S-300VM in range and probably KP.
But not the network centrics and mobility.
However reality is so that non-mobile and/or limited mobile (like MIM-104 Patriot) AD systems are sitting ducks without any chance to survive retaliation strike.

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes, it will be an equivalent of S-300PM-2 and S-300VM in range and probably KP.
But not the network centrics and mobility.
However reality is so that non-mobile and/or limited mobile (like MIM-104 Patriot) AD systems are sitting ducks without any chance to survive retaliation strike.

If its based on AAD, then it would be mobile.

As far as network centric AD is concerned, we are working on that front. Recently every asset in IAF had been brought under a single network. So AD fusion or developing an independent network centric system is something which is in pipeline.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Once India inducts S-400 and S-500 the whole Pakistani airforce will be paralyzed within
250-500 miles of their airspace.