India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

[SajeevJino]

Well Guys

Last night A American F/A 18 shoot down a Syrian Su 22, immediately Russian S 400 launches a missile and destroyed the US Navy F/A 18, now US is feared and already started packing up their bases and outposts from Syrian land, fearing the Russian super power may attack again,

Source RT, Sputnik, Press TV and whatever Sources that licking Russian ass

 

[Chinmoy]

Before it downed the Syrian plane, the U.S. military used a deconfliction channel to communicate with Russia, Syria's main ally, to prevent the situation from escalating, the Pentagon said.

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-a...jet-over-northern-syria-pentagon-says-1713954

 

[cobra commando]

LE BOURGET (France), June 21. / TASS/. Russia’s weapons exporter Rosoboronexport expects to sign a contract with India soon on the delivery of S-400 Triumf air defense missile systems, Rosoboronexport Head Alexander Mikheyev said at the Le Bourget international aerospace show on Wednesday. "Rosoboronexport is carrying out pre-contractual work with Indian partners. We are discussing the technical issues of the deliveries. I can assure you that both our company and the Indian side are set to sign the contract soon," the chief executive told journalists. An agreement on the delivery of S-400 antiaircraft missile systems to India was signed by the Russian and Indian governments in October 2016.The Rosoboronexport chief also said that the deliveries of S-400 surface-to-air missile systems to China would begin in compliance with the schedule. "The S-400 Triumf long-range air defense missile systems will be delivered to China in strict compliance with the contract concluded between Rosoboronexport and the Chinese side. There are no causes to doubt the timely and qualitative fulfillment of the accords," the company’s head said. The S-400 Triumf is the most advanced long-range antiaircraft missile system that went into service in Russia in 2007. It is designed to destroy aircraft, cruise and ballistic missiles, including medium-range missiles, and can also be used against ground objectives. The S-400 can engage targets at a distance of 400 km and at an altitude of up to 30 km. Russian Aerospace Force Commander-in-Chief Viktor Gumyonny said in April that the troops started to receive missiles for S-400 systems capable of destroying targets in outer space.

Russia to sign contract with India on S-400 air defense missile system deliveries

 

[Prashant12]

Russian S-400 Triumf air defence system: India closer to getting game-changing weapon
The missile system gives India the capability to track all Pakistani air bases, while bringing the Chinese assets in Tibet in its striking range.

Moving a step closer towards acquiring the formidable Russian S-400 Triumf air defence system, the Indian Air Force has completed the trials of the missiles, which can shoot down fighter and surveillance aircraft, cruise missiles and drones at the range of 400 kms over enemy airspace itself.

"The field evaluation trials of the Russian air defence system have been completed by the Indian Air Force in Russia and they have been quite successful. The trials were conducted on two separate occasions and it performed to the satisfaction of the users," government sources told MAIL TODAY.

After the completion of trials, the defence ministry will now start the process of initiating the contractual negotiations with Rosoboronexport, the Russian agency which handles defence deals with foreign countries, including the fixation of price, the sources said.

Despite the high price tag attached with the five S-400 systems India is planning to acquire, the Indian Air Force is extremely happy to get the weapon system as it will give them an edge over Pakistan and bring them on par with the Chinese who have already installed this system, the sources said.

WHAT CAN TRIUMF DO?

The missile system manufactured by Russia's Almaz Antey consists of a set of radars, missile launchers and command posts and the radar of each system can track between 100 and 300 targets simultaneously.

With a tracking range of 600 km, the missile system can engage up to 36 targets simultaneously within a range of 400 km.

The missile system gives India the capability to track all Pakistani air bases, while bringing the Chinese assets in Tibet in its striking range.

COST COULD BE LOWER THAN EXPECTED

An intergovernmental agreement on the sale of S-400 was signed in October 2016 at the 17th India-Russia summit between President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, which was earlier speculated to be pegged at Rs 54,000 crore.

After the top level negotiations, the deal is likely to cost less than Rs 40,000 crore and may go down even further in the Russian Triumf to give India edge over China tough negotiations on price with the Russians.

The Russian missile system would be used by the IAF, along with the other new air defence systems coming up in the country including the India-Israel joint venture Medium range-Surface to Air Missile system and the SPYDER systems that India recently acquired from Israel.

India has also developed its own air short range air defence systems including the Akash air defence missiles while the Missile complex of DRDO has also successfully tested the new Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missile system.

Air defence missile systems which can strike incoming targets at different ranges are deployed in tandem all over the world so that if one misses, there is a backup system to take down the enemy at the other level.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...efence-system-indian-air-force/1/1041713.html

 

[mystic avatar]

Major update on S-400

• S-400 file is currently on hold.
• IAF officers went to Russia and learned about export version of S-400.
  
• Russians are not selling fully capable S-400 but a watered down version.
• This version is not what we are expecting.
  
• Russia refused ToT and also refused Indian partnership in future version.

• We are unofficially talking with USA for an unknown AD system.
• MoD is expecting a BMD capable AD system from USA.
• MoD wants to know what we can get / if we can get from USA before making any decision.

• A small group of people are also calling for a JV with Israel just like Barak-8
• Many believe Israel is better partner for AD system.

 

[Chinmoy]

Major update on S-400

• S-400 file is currently on hold.
• IAF officers went to Russia and learned about export version of S-400.
  
• Russians are not selling fully capable S-400 but a watered down version.
• This version is not what we are expecting.
  
• Russia refused ToT and also refused Indian partnership in future version.

• We are unofficially talking with USA for an unknown AD system.
• MoD is expecting a BMD capable AD system from USA.
• MoD wants to know what we can get / if we can get from USA before making any decision.

• A small group of people are also calling for a JV with Israel just like Barak-8
• Many believe Israel is better partner for AD system.

For the first five points, let me quote what ACM recently told about it.

He said the contract for five S-400 missile systems would be signed soon and their delivery would start two years after the deal was struck.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/9128731_IAF-capable-of-confronting-Pak--China-at-same-time--Dhanoa.html

So its not on hold, but negotiation is going on. India never asked for ToT of S-400. No discussion regarding anything like this happened, nor Russia is providing watered down version of it. India basically want only 40N6 missile in the system and want to incorporate Green Pine RADAR with it to enhance its BMD capability. Negotiation is on with Russia to do the same.

Obtaining a US BMD, basically THAAD and of JV with Israel is the news which has originated from defencenews.com. Now I am not sure whether this news is brain child of Vivek Raghuvanshi or some one else in the corp. But anyhow this news is doing round as US has failed to push THAAD to Saudis and NATO alliance like Turkey.

http://www.businessinsider.in/Saudi-Arabia-just-agreed-to-buy-Russias-S-400-missile-defense-system/articleshow/60959565.cms

https://i-hls.com/archives/78991

 

[singhboy98]

Major update on S-400

• S-400 file is currently on hold.
• IAF officers went to Russia and learned about export version of S-400.
  
• Russians are not selling fully capable S-400 but a watered down version.
• This version is not what we are expecting.
  
• Russia refused ToT and also refused Indian partnership in future version.

• We are unofficially talking with USA for an unknown AD system.
• MoD is expecting a BMD capable AD system from USA.
• MoD wants to know what we can get / if we can get from USA before making any decision.

• A small group of people are also calling for a JV with Israel just like Barak-8
• Many believe Israel is better partner for AD system.

1.) What do you mean by "hold"? Does it mean negotiations are on or does it mean that the project has been put on the backburner?
2.) What is a watered down version? Are the Radars not up to the mark or the missiles themselves compromised?
3.) That says a lot about the position India is in.
4.) Is that even possible? Was ToT a part of the deal in the first place?
If a JV with Israel can be worked out, then what are we waiting for? Most of the PAD & AAD systems have been made with Israeli help. Their own Arrow systems are among the best in the world. If Russia wants to play hardball, then we should show them that we are made from tougher stuff.

 

[mystic avatar]

For the first five points, let me quote what ACM recently told about it.



http://www.ptinews.com/news/9128731_IAF-capable-of-confronting-Pak--China-at-same-time--Dhanoa.html

So its not on hold, but negotiation is going on. India never asked for ToT of S-400. No discussion regarding anything like this happened, nor Russia is providing watered down version of it. India basically want only 40N6 missile in the system and want to incorporate Green Pine RADAR with it to enhance its BMD capability. Negotiation is on with Russia to do the same.

Obtaining a US BMD, basically THAAD and of JV with Israel is the news which has originated from defencenews.com. Now I am not sure whether this news is brain child of Vivek Raghuvanshi or some one else in the corp. But anyhow this news is doing round as US has failed to push THAAD to Saudis and NATO alliance like Turkey.

http://www.businessinsider.in/Saudi...ssile-defense-system/articleshow/60959565.cms
http://www.businessinsider.in/Saudi-Arabia-just-agreed-to-buy-Russias-S-400-missile-defense-system/articleshow/60959565.cms
https://i-hls.com/archives/78991

This is latest inside news I got from my source. This is 3rd hand or possible 4th hand info so there maybe some inaccuracies.

Now coming to ACM's statement. I know what he said so this is why I too was surprised upon learning this. I was expecting S-400 contract to get signed by end of this year. I will get more information from my source when it is available. If anything changes I will post here.

I never said THAAD. My info is unknown AD system from USA. I will post more when I have info.

 

[Chinmoy]

This is latest inside news I got from my source. This is 3rd hand or possible 4th hand info so there maybe some inaccuracies.

Now coming to ACM's statement. I know what he said so this is why I too was surprised upon learning this. I was expecting S-400 contract to get signed by end of this year. I will get more information from my source when it is available. If anything changes I will post here.

I never said THAAD. My info is unknown AD system from USA. I will post more when I have info.

US has long been pushing India to go along with THAAD.

 

[mystic avatar]

1.) What do you mean by "hold"? Does it mean negotiations are on or does it mean that the project has been put on the backburner?

Most likely MoD is in wait and watch mode. IAF's team has submitted report and price negotiations where going to start but now it may not happen this year. But it looks like report reveled some bitter facts. They are currently doing back channel negotiation with USA for AD.

2.) What is a watered down version? Are the Radars not up to the mark or the missiles themselves compromised?

From what I have learned is Russia is selling S-400 with different configurations to different countries. i.e different radar-code-missile-seeker combo. Exact details was reveled to IAF officers that went to Russia. They have mentioned all details in there report to MoD but because that report is classified, my source wasn't able to know the details. I was told that MoD is not happy with what Russians are offering and now they are asking USA for a better system.

4.) Is that even possible? Was ToT a part of the deal in the first place?

MoD asked for ToT or local assembly of some low tech components as part of make in India but Russia flat out refused.

If a JV with Israel can be worked out, then what are we waiting for? Most of the PAD & AAD systems have been made with Israeli help. Their own Arrow systems are among the best in the world. If Russia wants to play hardball, then we should show them that we are made from tougher stuff.

This view of JV with Israel is only shared by a small group inside MoD.

 

[SELVAM]

Both Russians and chinese export weapons r watered down version (only 60% of capability as original) . Its no secret. Look at indian t 90s tanks

 

[SELVAM]

Only thing we can do is stop all weapons imports. Why waste billions in things which can never see battle feild

 

[singhboy98]

Most likely MoD is in wait and watch mode. IAF's team has submitted report and price negotiations where going to start but now it may not happen this year. But it looks like report reveled some bitter facts. They are currently doing back channel negotiation with USA for AD.


From what I have learned is Russia is selling S-400 with different configurations to different countries. i.e different radar-code-missile-seeker combo. Exact details was reveled to IAF officers that went to Russia. They have mentioned all details in there report to MoD but because that report is classified, my source wasn't able to know the details. I was told that MoD is not happy with what Russians are offering and now they are asking USA for a better system.


MoD asked for ToT or local assembly of some low tech components as part of make in India but Russia flat out refused.


This view of JV with Israel is only shared by a small group inside MoD.

I guess that the constant change of Defence Minister is not helping either. The new RM will take some time to get the hang of things. So we can expect this deal to get further delayed. However, according to some South Block grapevine, this project was supposed to be directly monitored by the NSA (read PMO). This means, IMO, that the conditions imposed by the Russians are so untenable that even the NSA cannot make the MoD move this thing. Makes me think if Russia was ever our ally.
On a side note though, the hesitancy to a JV with Israel is perplexing. I guess the Chinese connection has a big role to play in this behaviour.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

DRDO XRSAM with a range of 250-400 km is the future and not some watered down monkey models of S-400 and THAAD.

 

[Kalki_2018]

Exactly. XR-SAM and BMD phase-2 is a priority. S-400 is garbage it couldn't even stop Israeli's hitting syria. I hope IAF rejects it for indigenous option.

 

[gadeshi]

Exactly. XR-SAM and BMD phase-2 is a priority. S-400 is garbage it couldn't even stop Israeli's hitting syria. I hope IAF rejects it for indigenous option.

And will be defenceless for the next 15-25 years to come

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[suny6611]

Both Russians and chinese export weapons r watered down version (only 60% of capability as original) . Its no secret. Look at indian t 90s tanks

can u give details on the difference between these T 90 ie indian t90 vs russian t 90 ..........

 

[warrior monk]

Exactly. XR-SAM and BMD phase-2 is a priority. S-400 is garbage it couldn't even stop Israeli's hitting syria. I hope IAF rejects it for indigenous option.

XR SAM will take 6 to 10 years for product development and deployment and BMD phase 2 won't be ready before 2025 latest probably longer S-400 is a requirement since we face a possible two front war .
No country will give you their weapons with full capability obviously it is going to be a slightly watered down version of S-400 .We need to negotiate hard and get the best possible version and remember we have good relationship with the Russians.

 

[gadeshi]

If you guys could read more often than write you've know that Russians always had 2 complectations of theirs export weapons versions:
A (e.g. MiG-29 (9-12A) and the like) - for special partners and allies - this complectation is the same as for Russian army, without watering downs but with different IFF systems
B (e.g. MiG-29 (9-12B) and the like) - 25% watered down complectation for all the others.

India always get A one due to partner and ally status.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[aditya10r]

If you guys could read more often than write you've know that Russians always had 2 complectations of theirs export weapons versions:
A (e.g. MiG-29 (9-12A) and the like) - for special partners and allies - this complectation is the same as for Russian army, without watering downs but with different IFF systems
B (e.g. MiG-29 (9-12B) and the like) - 25% watered down complectation for all the others.

India always get A one due to partner and ally status.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

We had bought the migs when Soviets were around.

The su-30 deal could not bring much to the tot,lets see how this one goes.

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