India-Pakistan LoC/IB Skirmishes in the Aftermath of August 5 2019

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

This is Sig Sauer USA, the American branch of the Swiss/German conglomerate.

H&K is the one who made the HK 416 with AR 18 short stroke Piston and AR 15 design. The SIG 716 G2 Patrol is an AR 10 with the short stroke Piston design.

SIG 716 and SIG 516 are direct Descendents of the HK416 and 417 Rifles.

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

Then it can be used in DMR role too,
That makes dragunov obsolete and that will be needed to be replaced by some thing better and frankly that will overlap with a sniper rifle itself.

So, how will be roles defined? Does it has something to do with IBGs? and structural change.
Are we looking for DMR too?

I Guess so. But Dragunov can be modernized to fit the DMR Role needs so we can free up the 716s for Counter Insurgency/Terrorist Operations.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Treating Pakistan as a friend was a critical error: US officials in Afghanistan Papers
New Delhi: US officials in the Bush and Obama administrations believe the treatment of “Pakistan as a friend” in the country’s trillion-dollar 18-year-long Afghanistan war was a “critical error”, The Washington Post has revealed in its “secret history” of the conflict.

On Monday, the American daily published US government papers in an extensive report, ‘The Afghanistan Papers’. The trove of confidential documents comprise 2,000 pages of interviews with senior US officials and others directly involved in the conflict, conducted by a federal agency under the name ‘Lessons Learned’.

According to the documents, US officials admit that Pakistan — which the US supported with billions of dollars besides modern weapons, including air-to-air AMRAAM missiles that were used against Indian fighters earlier this year — had started playing a “double game” in the conflict as early as 2002.

Pakistan had joined the US in the “war against terror”, but it also supported the Taliban and the al-Qaeda leadership in finding safe havens and logistics support on its soil and in Afghanistan.

The documents obtained by the Post reveal that senior US officials failed to tell the truth about the Afghan war throughout the 18-year campaign. The Post said that US officials kept making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hid unmistakable evidence that the war had become unwinnable.

Over the past 18 years, over 775,000 American troops have served in Afghanistan, many repeatedly. Over 2,300 US troops died in the conflict while 20,589 returned home wounded, according to the US Defense Department figures. At present, over 13,000 American troops are serving in Afghanistan.

The George W. Bush administration had entered the country in 2001 to hunt down 9/11 perpetrator, al Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden, and destroy his terror organisation.

However, the war, continued by Presidents Barack Obama and Donald Trump, eventually became a prolonged conflict, with the US objectives changing over the years to include fighting the ultraconservative religious faction Taliban and installing a democratic Afghan government.

Also read: On India-Afghanistan border, Amit Shah is right and opposition is not wrong

‘Veering off the original track’
According to hundreds of confidential interviews revealed in The Washington Post report, US and allied officials admitted they veered off in directions that had little to do with al Qaeda or 9/11 in what was their first mistake in the prolonged war.

“By expanding the original mission, they said they adopted fatally flawed warfighting strategies based on misguided assumptions about a country they did not understand,” said the Post report.

The result was an “unwinnable conflict with no easy way out”. Further, the issue was compounded because of the US war in Iraq and against the Islamic State, pulling the attention off from Afghanistan.

“We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan — we didn’t know what we were doing,” Douglas Lute told government interviewers in 2015. Lute is a three-star Army general who served as the White House’s Afghan war czar during the Bush and Obama administrations.

“What are we trying to do here? We didn’t have the foggiest notion of what we were undertaking,” added Lute.

The Musharraf folly
In the ‘Lessons Learned’ interviews, other US officials said the Bush administration compounded its first mistake by making another “critical error” — “treating Pakistan as a friend”.

This was because of former Pakistan President and Army chief General Pervez Musharraf, who had allowed the Pentagon to use Pakistani airspace and US intelligence agency CIA to track al Qaeda leaders in Pakistani territory.

“As a result, the Bush White House was slow to recognize that Pakistan was simultaneously giving covert support to the Taliban, according to the interviews,” the Post said in its report.

Marin Strmecki, a senior adviser to former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, told government interviewers, “Because of people’s personal confidence in Musharraf and because of things he was continuing to do in helping police up a bunch of the al-Qaeda in Pakistan. There was a failure to perceive the double game that he starts to play by late 2002, early 2003.

“I think that the Afghans, and [President Hamid] Karzai himself, are bringing this up constantly even in the earlier parts of 2002,” Strmecki added. “They are meeting unsympathetic ears because of the belief that Pakistan was helping us so much on al-Qaeda… There is never a full confronting of Pakistan in its role supporting the Taliban.”

Also read: Trump makes surprise visit to Afghanistan, says peace talks with Taliban have resumed

The cost factor
Officials in the Obama administration acknowledged in the ‘Lessons Learned’ interviews that they failed to resolve another strategic challenge that had dogged Bush — what to do about Pakistan?

Washington kept giving Pakistan billions of dollars every year to help fight terrorism. Yet, the Pakistani military and intelligence leaders never stopped supporting the Afghan Taliban and giving sanctuary to its leaders, the Post reported.

“The Obama administration just thought if you just hang in there Pakistan will see the light,” a former White House official told government interviewers.

Another unnamed official complained that the Obama administration would not let US troops attack Taliban camps on the Pakistani side of the border.

“And still today we wonder what the problem is,” the official said. “I talked to (CIA chief) General Petraeus and I was saying that if I were a general and a bullet came and hit my men I would follow it. And Petraeus said yeah well go talk to Washington.”

Ryan Crocker, who also served as the US ambassador to Pakistan from 2004 to 2007, told government interviewers that Pakistani leaders did not bother to hide their duplicity, the Post reported.

He recalled a conversation he had with General Ashfaq Kayani, who was the chief of Pakistani intelligence agency ISI and one of the principal plotters of the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks.

“And he says, ‘You know, I know you think we’re hedging our bets. You’re right, we are, because one day you’ll be gone again, it’ll be like Afghanistan the first time, you’ll be done with us, but we’re still going to be here because we can’t actually move the country. And the last thing we want with all of our other problems is to have turned the Taliban into a mortal enemy, so, yes, we’re hedging our bets,’” Crocker quoted Kayani as saying.

In his December 2016 interview, Crocker said the only way to force Pakistan to change would be for President Trump to keep US troops in Afghanistan indefinitely and give them the green light to hunt the Taliban on Pakistani territory.


“It would allow him to say, ‘You worry about our reliability, you worry about our withdrawal from Afghanistan, I’m here to tell you that I’m going to keep troops there as long as I feel we need them, there is no calendar.’


“That’s the good news. The bad news for you is we’re going to kill Taliban leaders wherever we find them: Baluchistan (Balochistan), Punjab, downtown Islamabad. We’re going to go find them, so maybe you want to do a strategic recalculation,” the Post reported.


BTW!! its Umrica...dont fall for whatever they say...
its just gas!
Its Umrica making a statement of "WE SCREWED UP" on afghanistan..thats all

Total idiots . After nuclear proliferation and sheltering Osama Bin Laden for more than a
decade someone figured this out??? LOL . There is still many who believe Pakistan is an ally
and the good taliban bad taiban theory when both are backed by pakistan.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacif...illingness-to-cooperate-with-pakistan/1670842

Russia expresses willingness to cooperate with Pakistan

Russia will help boost Pakistan's economy by cooperating in various fields including aircraft manufacturing, state media said Wednesday.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacif...illingness-to-cooperate-with-pakistan/1670842

Russia expresses willingness to cooperate with Pakistan

Russia will help boost Pakistan's economy by cooperating in various fields including aircraft manufacturing, state media said Wednesday.

Meanwhile india..........

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Meanwhile india..........

good move no reason to vote either way. UN resolutions don't have any impact on Russia.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Theoretically,any soldier equipped with 716 with play dmr role. But the variant procured to be said to be "basic" variant(patrol variant o guess,@vampyrbladez your input needed here)

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/02/05/breaking-news-india-buys-72000-sig-sauer-716-g2/
Plus optics for these rifles is yet to be procured,that needed to be sorted out,(anyway this is a temporary snag)

Imo,any soldier with decent marksmenship can bag a 700mts hit for sure. ie, PKMKB

This is what I found from the RFI on the 7.62x51 mm tender.

The 500 m effective range requirement would correspond with a Patrol variant than a DMR.

https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/648/telescopic sightdginf8.pdf

The information from an older India Today article calls these firearms as "automatic rifles". The author is Sandeep Unnithan who is competent about military affairs.

US-made battle rifle and a UAE-made carbine have emerged as the lowest bidders for the Indian Army's requirement for equipping its soldiers with a new rifle. The US arm-maker SIG Sauer's SiG 716 finished with the 'L1' or lowest quote for the army's fast track procurement of 72,000 new automatic rifles.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...equip-indian-army-soldiers-1352324-2018-09-29

The user manual describes the patrol variant as having selective fire modes.

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/SIG716.pdf

BONUS :

IA may also be equipping it's Northern Command with Night Sight (TI) GPMG of the MAG 58 variety ~ 1500 no.s only.

https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/647/Nightsightdginf8.pdf


OFB had received an order for a batch of these guns a while ago IIRC.

Amid government plan to convert ordnance factories into public corporations on the grounds that the current structure keeps it inefficient, the Army is planning to place an order of 3,500 7.62mm MAG guns with the Small Arms Factory (SAF) at Kanpur.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ith-ordnance-factory/articleshow/71342802.cms

Interestingly, both the AK 203 (Amethi) and the MAG 58 (Kanpur) orders are from OFB factories in UP so it seems that a Maj. Gen. level officer may be appointed for oversight of the next generation LMG/GPMG being procured.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

As US is not moving out of Afghanistan, how will it hamper our capability to get back our land from baxis ?

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

This is what I found from the RFI on the 7.62x51 mm tender.

View attachment 40627

The 500 m effective range requirement would correspond with a Patrol variant than a DMR.

https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/648/telescopic sightdginf8.pdf

The information from an older India Today article calls these firearms as "automatic rifles". The author is Sandeep Unnithan who is competent about military affairs.



https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...equip-indian-army-soldiers-1352324-2018-09-29

The user manual describes the patrol variant as having selective fire modes.

View attachment 40628

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/SIG716.pdf

BONUS :

IA may also be equipping it's Northern Command with Night Sight (TI) GPMG of the MAG 58 variety ~ 1500 no.s only.

View attachment 40629

https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/647/Nightsightdginf8.pdf


OFB had received an order for a batch of these guns a while ago IIRC.



https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ith-ordnance-factory/articleshow/71342802.cms

Interestingly, both the AK 203 (Amethi) and the MAG 58 (Kanpur) orders are from OFB factories in UP so it seems that a Maj. Gen. level officer may be appointed for oversight of the next generation LMG/GPMG being procured.

At last India is learning, if you want your government run military industrial complex to run properly and make you weapons for your military then you need to put somebody in in charge who knows the inner workings of the project but also who knows the realities of the battlefield and what type things certain situations demand. A Maj General is perfect man for this and i am pretty sure under his command they will produce excellent Products.

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

As US is not moving out of Afghanistan, how will it hamper our capability to get back our land from baxis ?

It’s doesn’t hamper our ability. It’s actually good for us Talibani Dogs might try to intervene in the Battle Between India and Porkis. In the name of defending Pisslam and also helping there PorkiShitani Terrorist Masters. Having American in Afghanistan and Afghan Army Troops on the Durand Line will help Mitigate And Counter Talibani Bastards.

 

[mayfair]

As US is not moving out of Afghanistan, how will it hamper our capability to get back our land from baxis ?

Makes no difference. China factor remains the same.

 

[hit&run]

Total idiots . After nuclear proliferation and sheltering Osama Bin Laden for more than a
decade someone figured this out??? LOL . There is still many who believe Pakistan is an ally
and the good taliban bad taiban theory when both are backed by pakistan.

I have said it many years ago here at DFI that Americans have over-diagnosed Afghanistan and misdiagnosed Pakistan.

Now people are saying the same.

 

[Icarus]

Total idiots . After nuclear proliferation and sheltering Osama Bin Laden for more than a
decade someone figured this out??? LOL . There is still many who believe Pakistan is an ally
and the good taliban bad taiban theory when both are backed by pakistan.

USA knows how to play the great game, which is why they're a superpower. India, meanwhile, talks morality in politics and gets whacked by smaller countries.

 

[Deathstar]

USA knows how to play the great game, which is why they're a superpower. India, meanwhile, talks morality in politics and gets whacked by smaller countries.

While u keep changing your flag, show the truth pal

 

[Icarus]

While u keep changing your flag, show the truth pal

I think it's VPN, lol. See my response here: https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/chit-chat-thread.4046/page-1788#post-1607964

 

[sorcerer]

Meanwhile india..........

Good.. India has its interests with Russia

 

[sorcerer]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacif...illingness-to-cooperate-with-pakistan/1670842

Russia expresses willingness to cooperate with Pakistan

Russia will help boost Pakistan's economy by cooperating in various fields including aircraft manufacturing, state media said Wednesday.

ALSO

US soldiers to take part in the Victory Parade in Russia on May 9 2020

oh well!!!
Some policies are like that..should not see it through the same settings when it comes to nations.

 

[sorcerer]

Ceasefire violation by Pak in Poonch


Srinagar, Dec 12 (IANS): Pakistani army resorted to ceasefire violation on Thursday in Shahpur, Kirni and Qasba sectors along the LoC in district Poonch of Jammu and Kashmir.

According to an Army statement: "Around 11.30 a.m. Pakistan initiated the unprovoked ceasefire violation by firing of small arms and shelling with mortars along the Line of Control (LoC) in Shahpur, Kirni and Qasba sectors in District Poonch (Jammu and Kashmir).

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

While u keep changing your flag, show the truth pal

He is a Porki from PDF bro. I mean he is clearly using a VPN to change his country every other day.

 

[IndiaRising]

surprised nobody posted this yet. IA tested Excalibur ammunition yesterday. Pakis are peeing in their pants right now