India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

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Tridev123

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Here's what I don't get; why play on the backfoot? I've lately seen big claims about what we'll do if a Paki terror attack succeeds; but why on Earth would we wait for them to succeed? Should they be allowed to get away with planning such horrible attacks just because we manage to foil their designs? Is there no significant penalty/price to be extracted for their last 70 yrs of belligerent machinations for Kashmir ('48, '65, '99), for decades of hardcore insurgency in Punjab and J&K, for spates of bomb blasts and attacks on civilians across India - specifically its big cities?

Do we give them a free run until they're successful - which given infinite attempts, any enemy will be?

Where's the deterrence? What's the endgame?
I am neither an fanboy of the Government nor a leftist bent on seeing faults in every decision of the present Government. But we need to be objective in our analysis.

Pakistan not getting deterred in spite of heavy blows given to it is nothing new. The same pattern of behaviour has happened for decades whether it was the Congress or a BJP Government. So we expressing frustration with only the present Government is unfair.

Pakistan is like a commercial sex worker who dances to the tune of whoever gives it money. Presently it is China which owns it and is bankrolling all its anti India activities.

Its existence is based on being an arch rival of India. The Pakistani military is the fountainhead of the deep animosity that exists in Pakistan towards India. As long as the Pakistan military especially the Army is organised and strong it will not cease its anti India activities.

The ruling elite in Pakistan cannot accept the idea that India has succeeded to a large extent and also assimilated a large population of Muslims who believe in the Indian dream.

So according to them India has to fail. Only then Pakistan will succeed. It is an either or situation. Both India and Pakistan cannot exist peacefully.

Religion alone cannot unite people. There are dozens of Islamic countries in the world and many a times they are even fighting against each other. It is a fallacy to expect that Islam alone can unite the Punjabis, Pashtoons, Balochis, Muhajirs and Sindhis. The very idea of Pakistan is flawed. Simply being anti Hindu will not save their nation.

Since the Pakistani Army is the main force propagating anti Indianism there the conclusion is that lasting peace will never happen until the Pakistan Army is degraded and destroyed. So our long term strategy should be to systematically weaken the Pakistan Army and lower its morale. The divisions in the Pak Army should be exploited. The eventual disintegration of the Pak Army should be our objective. How and what methods to achieve it is up for debate.

Or another option is to declare war on Pakistan and balkanise it. We did it successfully in East Pakistan. But there will be a price to pay.

So either we play the long term game of changing Pakistan or settle the issue once and for all through open war.
 

Lancer

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Pakistan not getting deterred in spite of heavy blows given to it is nothing new. The same pattern of behaviour has happened for decades whether it was the Congress or a BJP Government. So we expressing frustration with only the present Government is unfair.
I'm not expressing frustration w/ the current Gvt alone - I'm actually probably one of the most hardcore pro-BJP & RSS members on here. But it's also true that they have fought on the plank of nationalism, national security, and Modi likes to talk the big talk re: Pak - so naturally expectations are highest from them too. If they don't solve this issue, nobody else will, I certainly don't expect anything other than treason from Congress.

As long as the Pakistan military especially the Army is organised and strong it will not cease its anti India activities.
So we need to start hitting them and change that, killing a couple foot soldiers or newly minted teenage jihadis from backward villages won't do anything.

It is an either or situation. Both India and Pakistan cannot exist peacefully.
100%, so destroy them

It is a fallacy to expect that Islam alone can unite the Punjabis, Pashtoons, Balochis, Muhajirs and Sindhis. The very idea of Pakistan is flawed
Yes, it can and should be Balkanized.

Since the Pakistani Army is the main force propagating anti Indianism there the conclusion is that lasting peace will never happen until the Pakistan Army is degraded and destroyed. So our long term strategy should be to systematically weaken the Pakistan Army and lower its morale. The divisions in the Pak Army should be exploited. The eventual disintegration of the Pak Army should be our objective.
Yes, the decimation of the Pak Army, and the disintegration of Pakistan as a nation state.

Or another option is to declare war on Pakistan and balkanise it. We did it successfully in East Pakistan.
Should work furiously on subconventional measures to bring it to the cusp of Balkanization first, then deliver the conventional blow, just like in '71. Until then in the short term, any excuse should be used to quickly take back PoJK and carve out a safe zone for Sindhi Hindus along the border areas.

But there will be a price to pay.
There always is, but in the long run it'll be much better/cheaper than constantly dealing with Paki bullshit.
 

shade

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There always is, but in the long run it'll be much better/cheaper than constantly dealing with Paki bullshit.
It won't be cheaper, it will be much more heavier, but we may have actual gains.
currently what is happening is we're being slowly bled out for no reason by cannon fodder pathan and poonjabis jihadis, we get nothing, except the bodies of our martyred heroes.
We must stop playing on the defensive and make them play on the defensive.
The fear of the Hindu must be put in their heads.
Surgical strikes and Airstrikes are simply the appetizer, we must serve them the "main course" of punishment soon.
 

Knowitall

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It won't be cheaper, it will be much more heavier, but we may have actual gains.
currently what is happening is we're being slowly bled out for no reason by cannon fodder pathan and poonjabis jihadis, we get nothing, except the bodies of our martyred heroes.
We must stop playing on the defensive and make them play on the defensive.
The fear of the Hindu must be put in their heads.
Surgical strikes and Airstrikes are simply the appetizer, we must serve them the "main course" of punishment soon.
We deal with pakistan while daddy china continues to grow.

One front needs to be eliminated under any cost before it's too late.
 

Lancer

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It won't be cheaper, it will be much more heavier, but we may have actual gains.
currently what is happening is we're being slowly bled out for no reason by cannon fodder pathan and poonjabis jihadis, we get nothing, except the bodies of our martyred heroes.
We must stop playing on the defensive and make them play on the defensive.
The fear of the Hindu must be put in their heads.
Surgical strikes and Airstrikes are simply the appetizer, we must serve them the "main course" of punishment soon.
In an immediate sense - it'll obviously be more expensive - but as I said, in the long run it'll be a lot cheaper than continuing this same game for another 70 years.

People should understand, when they make arguments like business/investment/business climate etc that India is also being held back from achieving its potential across various sectors - including the financial sector - due to this constant strain.

Nothing will unleash India's full potential like finishing Pakistan for good; redirecting most military resources towards China and being able to focus on financial growth + trade (in the neighborhood especially) without frequent skirmishes and terror attacks. Will also open up a pathway to Central Asia and its resources.
 

Lancer

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We deal with pakistan while daddy china continues to grow.

One front needs to be eliminated under any cost before it's too late.
Yea, imagine being stuck deploying year round on the China border as well, while continuing to play this game with Pakistan (mostly on backfoot), while having to deal with internal saboteurs.
 

shade

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In an immediate sense - it'll obviously be more expensive - but as I said, in the long run it'll be a lot cheaper than continuing this same game for another 70 years.

People should understand, when they make arguments like business/investment/business climate etc that India is also being held back from achieving its potential across various sectors - including the financial sector - due to this constant strain.

Nothing will unleash India's full potential like finishing Pakistan for good; redirecting most military resources towards China and being able to focus on financial growth + trade (in the neighborhood especially) without frequent skirmishes and terror attacks. Will also open up a pathway to Central Asia and its resources.
You can't finish them off for good, but a good thrashing by us in a War will embolden the secessionist and ultra fanatical groups there so much, that they will have their hands full fighting off domestic insurgency by Col. Rajesh.

Perhap PakFauj will be reorganized to being a COIN force like Burma's army.
Final destruction of Porkiland is a long term project.

btw people doing muh business, muh investment etc are the babus and politicos in GoI, or even these business dalals themselves, if you ask the average Joe( i.e non trouser-shivering metro-dwelling urbanite ), he will support any war effort against these dolphin shaggers.

like knowitall said, atleast one front needs to be dealt with, Pak, Chenez or the internal treacherous elements( momins, commie, phoren backed protestant missionary groups, mediawalas, the whole bunch )
 

12arya

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Praveen Sahney is the Diarrhea you have after you eat rotten Chinese Take out.

Anyone spreading his words.....remember that you are spreading diarrhea.
Wasn't it this sahney dude who went around and called(and still calls it) OP Sarpvinash as fake encounter!!

I recently read that it was intel community & babudom that directly fed Sahney stuff, to take down Lt. Gen. Hardy Lidder, for exposing their failure at Hill Kaka regions! But they cudn't do much against Lidder since the man is highly respected among SF and it seems they feared a backlash from SF community which wud have exposed them all. Amazingly, Sahney still calls sarpvinash fake encounter!
 
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Lancer

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You can't finish them off for good, but a good thrashing by us in a War will embolden the secessionist and ultra fanatical groups there so much, that they will have their hands full fighting off domestic insurgency by Col. Rajesh.

Perhap PakFauj will be reorganized to being a COIN force like Burma's army.
Final destruction of Porkiland is a long term project.

btw people doing muh business, muh investment etc are the babus and politicos in GoI, or even these business dalals themselves, if you ask the average Joe( i.e non trouser-shivering metro-dwelling urbanite ), he will support any war effort against these dolphin shaggers.

like knowitall said, atleast one front needs to be dealt with, Pak, Chenez or the internal treacherous elements( momins, commie, phoren backed protestant missionary groups, mediawalas, the whole bunch )
We can, Balkanization is the only logical end game of Pakistan; and the only way we'll ever achieve lasting peace.

Anything else will be taking paracetamol and putting a band aid on stage 3 cancer.

Also, there is an old theory, that putting Pak in place (either through timely beatdowns, or a conclusive conflict) will also put a certain samudaay vishesh within India's boundaries - which has a tendency to behave as a fifth column - in check.
 

shade

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#Breaking India to brief foreign diplomats on #PakTerror. FS @harshvshringla briefing P5 and select countries on Pak attempted terrorism, #Nagrota attack foiled by Indian forces. Secretaries of MEA briefing other foreign diplomats.
My sources tell me that the MEA is collectively wiping their asses with the pages of the "Dossier" right now.
also people in know of the matter say that Col. Rajesh in Quetta also says he wishes the $80 billion funding bit was true.
 

Lancer

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What's the time boys?

It's pig roasting time!

šŸ– :shoot:I
Hope so. You know, considering the sheer chaos in the world from COVID + multiple conflicts + US busy on who won the election; now would be a good time to take care of business - if one wanted to.

Also, now that the Chinese have openly come out as full conventional enemies (eyeball deployments & Galwan clash) - I think they'll quickly work to upgrade their infra on our border, make the aggressive deployments a constant thing, and start increasing their presence in PoJK in order to dissuade future Indian action. This is likely a time sensitive objective.
 
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