India Pakistan conflict along LoC and counter terrorist operations

[ezsasa]

I view Shekhar Gupta's videos and print material avidly, and I have seen this video also.

If you want we can get into the debate about Liberalism, Conservatism and Nationalism some other time, as the travails of Pakistan lie in these definitions.. But I am very glad that we are having a meaningful discussion without acrimony.

why should there be acrimony in a debate!!!

you don’t insult my intelligence, I won’t insult yours.

 

[IndiaRising]

Pakis owning up to a lot of casualties on LoC these days. What gives?

 

[FalconZero]

Pakis owning up to a lot of casualties on LoC these days. What gives?

as the tweet suggests, they are downplaying the casualties number but at the same time giving out info on one or two.

 

[IndiaRising]

as the tweet suggests, they are downplaying the casualties number but at the same time giving out info on one or two.

usually they dont even do that lol

 

[Shankar Deb]

I fear that day will never come, knowingly or unknowingly Pakistani establishment is killing their societal feedback system using coercion or peer pressure or violence. a feedback system is essential for a society to stay level headed, which I think does not exist in Pakistan at the moment and whatever is left is only diminishing every year.

towards the end even Asma Jahangir was sounding like paki establishment narratives in her speeches.

Pakistani who can’t adjust to ground realities are simply moving to western countries.

therefore I get back to your fundamental assumption that Pakistan will reform someday will never come, there is no point in investing any good will in Pakistan anymore.

at a strategic level to too, it doesn’t make any sense for us to engage with Pakistan anymore. All the words they are speaking are being written in Beijing. What’s the point in engaging with someone who is not in control of their own faculties!!!

Asma jahangir could still be part of the establishment, that way Ayisha Siddiqa could be a batter bet for an impartial assessments on Pakistani strategic affairs.

In my opinion, the only reason Pakistan is not a Middle Eastern type dictatorship, is that they are to big, too diverse, and too populous a country, who have had a taste of democracy, no matter how tainted and incompetent.

I have just started a new thread "Taming the Dragon" where I have touched upon some of your concerns on Pakistan. Perhaps you might find it useful.

 

[Shankar Deb]

I fear that day will never come, knowingly or unknowingly Pakistani establishment is killing their societal feedback system using coercion or peer pressure or violence. a feedback system is essential for a society to stay level headed, which I think does not exist in Pakistan at the moment and whatever is left is only diminishing every year.

towards the end even Asma Jahangir was sounding like paki establishment narratives in her speeches.

Pakistani who can’t adjust to ground realities are simply moving to western countries.

therefore I get back to your fundamental assumption that Pakistan will reform someday will never come, there is no point in investing any good will in Pakistan anymore.

at a strategic level to too, it doesn’t make any sense for us to engage with Pakistan anymore. All the words they are speaking are being written in Beijing. What’s the point in engaging with someone who is not in control of their own faculties!!!

Entirely agree,

There is no point in investing goodwill on them, but we can at least wish them good luck. Only they will have to repair their society, nobody else can do it for them

 

[Shankar Deb]

Govt should stop all benefits they will take a stand immediately.

Us honest taxpayers have too see our hard earned money spent on this bullshit.

They are not intimidated at all. Infact they portray a victim complex show the world that they are being stamped upon and all nonsense while go hand in hand with jihadis. This is the truth.

Should we give the impression that we love the land but hate the people?

Think what we could do if the local Goonda with political connections got into our house and availed of our facilities whenever he wanted. No amount of threats to us by our neighbors to evict him, would make any difference, as we would not know how to get rid of him.

Not every problem gets solved by the stick.

 

[Vande1947]

Noted

But if you exclude the Pakistani Army and the Jihadis, do you still feel that the rest of the population is radicalized?

Yes
I am in contact with a lot of pakistanis in my line of work. They express their disdain and distaste for India openly and for Hindus in particular. They are happy to joke about us but take offence if something is said about pakistan.
And this feeling runs thru the educated class as well ( post graduates and higher degree )

 

[Vande1947]

Noted

But if you exclude the Pakistani Army and the Jihadis, do you still feel that the rest of the population is radicalized?

I have the seen the change in their mind set from 1975.
Had visited pakistan then. Even though I was too young to form an opinion, yet there seemed more acceptance of a Hindu ( despite it being just 4 years post 1971 ). But, have seen an erosion in their level of tolerance over the years and the present generation seem to thrive only on a single agenda--hatred for India( read Hindu ). They seem to be indoctrinated since their early youth.

I can understand the thought process of the pakistanis trying to sort out their own mess on their own. Great, let them do it. Let there be an internal churn.Good luck with that. A state founded on religion and that too with severe internal divisions where only the army holds sway will change it's spots---everyone has a right to dream!!
But, that does not mean that we take our eyes off the ball and leave any stone unturned to balkanise them, esp Balochistan. We have to take each and every opportunity to decrease and eliminate the danger to India. Who knows whether we will have another chance again in the next 20-30 years.

 

[Shankar Deb]

I have the seen the change in their mind set from 1975.
Had visited pakistan then. Even though I was too young to form an opinion, yet there seemed more acceptance of a Hindu ( despite it being just 4 years post 1971 ). But, have seen an erosion in their level of tolerance over the years and the present generation seem to thrive only on a single agenda--hatred for India( read Hindu ). They seem to be indoctrinated since their early youth.

I can understand the thought process of the pakistanis trying to sort out their own mess on their own. Great, let them do it. Let there be an internal churn.Good luck with that. A state founded on religion and that too with severe internal divisions where only the army holds sway will change it's spots---everyone has a right to dream!!
But, that does not mean that we take our eyes off the ball and leave any stone unturned to balkanise them, esp Balochistan. We have to take each and every opportunity to decrease and eliminate the danger to India. Who knows whether we will have another chance again in the next 20-30 years.

Entirely agree, their stance as a whole has become harder regarding not only Hindus, but all non Sunni religions.

 

[Shankar Deb]

Yes
I am in contact with a lot of pakistanis in my line of work. They express their disdain and distaste for India openly and for Hindus in particular. They are happy to joke about us but take offence if something is said about pakistan.
And this feeling runs thru the educated class as well ( post graduates and higher degree )

Entirely agree, but we also are disdainful of the Pakistani people, and joke about them. So all of this mutual.

 

[Shankar Deb]

cuz elections were rigged.

Could be, but is it in the interest of the Army to downplay jihadi parties, when the army is desperately trying to legitimize them politically?

 

[FalconZero]

Could be, but is it in the interest of the Army to downplay jihadi parties, when the army is desperately trying to legitimize them politically?

Army wanted to keep their status quo, with imrand they already had it, he is a paki army lapdog and with that jihadi losing election, they could show how progressive they are, a smokescreen while they fund jihadis through backdoor....

 

[Shankar Deb]

Aa Gaye Aman kee tamasha ka Randi Rona karne..Ye chootiyap Jo direct action day mein mare Gaye hain unko suna
Pakistan and pakistani are only meant to be slaughtered at first sight ...they are like fucking cockroaches..kill them as soon as you them ..

These are exactly the same sentiments that the Pakistanis feel about us, kill all Hindus wherever you meet them. So are you saying that there is no difference between the way our two peoples think and behave?

 

[Knowitall]

Should we give the impression that we love the land but hate the people?

Think what we could do if the local Goonda with political connections got into our house and availed of our facilities whenever he wanted. No amount of threats to us by our neighbors to evict him, would make any difference, as we would not know how to get rid of him.

Not every problem gets solved by the stick.

This problem deserves the stick.

A harsh policy by bjp has already reaped wonders and changed kashmir from bottom up.

Dont know what you are talking about.

 

[Knowitall]

Entirely agree, but we also are disdainful of the Pakistani people, and joke about them. So all of this mutual.

Whole world is disdainful about them your point?

Everybody hates the other guy for some reason. This is how the world is.

 

[Shankar Deb]

Tell this load of bull crap to the hindu families that are being massacred in pakistan.

This whole thing looks like a script from one of salman Khan's movie.

Unfortunately there are lots of Hindu families being massacred by the Hindus in India also. Hate is not the monopoly of the Pakistanis

 

[ezsasa]

Unfortunately there are lots of Hindu families being massacred by the Hindus in India also. Hate is not the monopoly of the Pakistanis

Where are lots of hindu families massacred by hindus in india? did i miss something?

 

[Shankar Deb]

This problem deserves the stick.

A harsh policy by bjp has already reaped wonders and changed kashmir from bottom up.

Dont know what you are talking about.

If harsh policies could do the trick, then the Chinese would have solved the Tibet and Xinjiang problem long ago

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Unfortunately there are lots of Hindu families being massacred by the Hindus in India also. Hate is not the monopoly of the Pakistanis

Avoid off topic morality lessons