India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
32,620
Likes
150,915
Country flag
How much weightage would you attach to fiscal prudence for a country sandwiched between 2 hostile N powers as neighbours whose only mutual bond is between our destruction & seizing our territory , especially at a time like this , when the bigger & more dangerous foe is now no longer boxing in the shadows but is out in the open with its hostilities ?

Do we continue penny pinching when the situation demands the opposite ? These aren't very complicated issues unless we've decided to complicate it.

Finally if the IA isn't getting it's act together w.r.t procurement it's for the MoD & the Raksha Mantri to read them the riot act if he can tell the difference between a howitzer & assault rifle & for that to happen the question - do both of them share a similar threat perception - must be asked ? That should explain a lot if not the entire game .
focussing on one or two gears in this whole machinery will not give convey what i want to convey. focus on one gear, and there will be a catch somewhere else.

let me put it this way.
=====
idealistic answer:

drop everything else, pretend like nothing else exists other than taking care of national security, assume India is going to be attacked from both sides tomorrow, give top priority to funding of national security. everything else can wait.

fire anyone who does not align with the plan, that will teach them a lesson and every one else will fall in line.

pragmatic answer:

give national security the top priority it deserves, along with other national priorities. recognise the interplay and inter-dependencies between national security and national power, and act in best possible manner while advancing both as situation permits. build national power under the protective umbrella of national security, to reach a stage where national security becomes shared national interest so that military does not need to fight alone when the need arises.

at bureaucratic level, take up process reforms seriously, in a timely manner.
at government level, impress up on the public the importance of national power, with better communication strategy.
 
Last edited:

mokoman

Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
6,456
Likes
34,779
Country flag
Neutral experts is one dispute resolution mechanism in IWT, second one is CoA(court of arbitration)
The visit is no biggie, we prefer former over the latter, it's as per agreement.
says here both are happening . this comedy going on while they kill our people .


Pakistan has some opposition to 2 of our dam projects

 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2020
Messages
4,130
Likes
17,606
Country flag
says here both are happening . this comedy going on while they kill our people .


Pakistan has some opposition to 2 of our dam projects

1718436249754.jpeg
 

Austin316

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
167
Likes
540
Country flag
Is something wrong in Rawalpindi, 2 USAF C-17 were airborne to Rawalpindi all the way from UAE, but for some reason both aircrafts did not land and were encircling north of pak airspace for a long duration and later both aircrafts have been diverted.
 

Arjun Mk1A

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2022
Messages
3,095
Likes
17,016
Country flag
thats a little bad since 1 billion gone for 6 apache helicopters

for 1 billion you get 307 atags + 1300 alsv + some kestrels too
or
30 lch prachand too

thats for the primary thing anyone can calculate that 30 mediorcre tech heli > 6 heavy heli operation wise or 307 155mm guns gonna fire much more hell than those 6 apache combined too

what we need is better management first and bigger budget second

the pensions should be removed and salaries increased no problem if it goes till 200k crore we still save 100k crore too those may go to rnd and others (100k crore =12.5 billion $ thats huge)

I will not call Prachand as Mediocre helicopter. The Payload configuration is highly capable.
1718459092308.png



It needs an Longbow like Radar and MAWS.
The former needs to be developed as we have AESA tech while the latter is already available in the form of DCMAWS.

But yes the Apache purchase ended up in Ego trip between Army and Airforce.
 

another_armchair

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
12,046
Likes
54,189
Country flag
I will not call Prachand as Mediocre helicopter. The Payload configuration is highly capable.
View attachment 258146


It needs an Longbow like Radar and MAWS.
The former needs to be developed as we have AESA tech while the latter is already available in the form of DCMAWS.

But yes the Apache purchase ended up in Ego trip between Army and Airforce.
Why didn't GoI refuse?

Oh wait.. 11 lakh plus standing army threatened to resign in protest and go home.
 

maximus777

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
1,435
Likes
6,019
Country flag
What meat grinders you are talking about ?
We lost just 600 men in Kargil.. and Pakis maybe 3000.. How many Army men have died in all Independent India's conventional conflicts combined ? It's less than 10,000 in 77 years ... Very small, for a million man Army..

We have neither the equipment or Industry for attrition war.

IF CRPF/BSF can take the fight into Naxal dens and defeat them.. I think we should use this cheaper CAPF option to saturate Jammu Kashmir .. There would be more casualties, but they will improve with time..
On a higher level, I cant argue with the stats and agree with you.

IMO in the Kargil war, that is still 600 men too many! What was the need for self imposed no crossing LOC limitation? The peaks should have been circled and the men on top left to rot. Maybe crossing the LOC would have resulted in casualties higher than 600, but at least we would have held on to those territorial gains and there would be something to show for those sacrifices. What exactly did we achieve in Kargil aside from fixing the intel fkup that resulted in 100s of Pakis setup camps on our side of the LOC? Essentially we lost 600 men for no gain!
 

Austin316

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
167
Likes
540
Country flag
If i use all my mental gymnastics
maybe some clandestine ops is going on in afg , and the C17s are working as their C&C center.

I know for sure that this method is used but idk what they have left to do in afg or neighborhood .
Actually there was 2 parallel C17s airborne & enroute to Rawalpindi, but for some reason when it reached pak northern airspace one was diverted and other was encircling about an hour and diverted back to its airbase, so wierd and suspicious air movement. It came to airdrop something. There is no Notam in place why both aircrafts diverted remains unknown
 
Last edited:

Waanar

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,508
Likes
23,478
Country flag

Former DGP S.P.Vaid on an unusual request from Northern Army Command during his tenure. Frankly I never knew the situation is so bad with the IA
What in the actual fuck.

God bless the Commander for putting his soldier's lives over his ego and "paltan ki izzat" but what the fuck.
I think (I hope) this was just some sort of a temporary shortage of personnel. And my goodness, SOGs are badasses.

Where do you hear SWAT-esque units facing off against and bashing an Army into behaving?

Incredible.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top