India Nepal Relations

Frontrunner

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To every one here..
How about establishing a condominium.. a shared sovereign territory in the kalapani area that would belong to both India and Nepal. But, India gets to keep its military forces in the area...?
Keeping low military profile in that area will suffice.. specially lipulekh paas on which this whole hue nd cries started surfacing.. it is supposed to be a route of Kailash mansarovar yatra.. where in we builded a road to make kailash yatra easy nd less time consuming ... route through nepal will take less time..

Only presence of bsf would suffice there.
 

Bhadra

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There are non communist party like nepal Congress nd RJPN(which is considered to be right winged) however.. communism finds it's support from china.. recently only Chinese provided its support to oli led ncp party.. when they were in precarious situation labelled with corruption charges...

Oli is considered to be anti-india even his few of subordinates nd fellow politicians are extreme anti-india.. nd they are pretty vocal about it...

For india this situation is extremely delicate... Here if we accept nepal demands then oli nd ncp will declare a political victory nd their popularity will skyrocket.. nd if we don't then oli will keep on building on his hate India campaign to ride on waves of nationalism...

Here wht i think we can do is to work with utmost wits.. i.e don't provide any ground for oli to score a political victory... Meanwhile don't alienate them... Indulge in bi-level talks .. act as we are engaging nd are serious to solve the border issues diplomatically... Avoid any usual rhetorics banter.. with nepalese... Keep mum.. while watching every development...

Build ground against oli nd ncp.. support Nepali congress nd rjpn... Nd when Oli is ousted from power.. with new govt.. solve the border issue... Nd voila here we can curb anti-india elements in nepal..
I am a nepali myself... see Nepalese people there in nepal are given a hate india churan by oli nd co. to build on his popularity... His stature is growing leaps nd bounds coz for nepali folks it seems he is standing strong against giant india.. for oli things worked very well after india enforced blockades...

Here we need to be extra cautious.. drumming up war drums nd blowing trumpet won't solve the case ... Instead it will make things go haywire..

The Brahminical Congress leadership and the Brahminical Bureacrcy of India thought that by creating a Beahminal Congress in Nepal led by the likes of Koirala, or Sharma or Tiwari etc to oust the Raja, they would be able to control Nepal, they have been proved utterly Childish time and again. RAW also seems to have cooked their goose there very badly as they were also on the same divisive path. The Maoists created and supported by them became their own headache like Bhinderwala or ULFA. Now the situation has developed so bad that Nepal has embarked on the path of harming Indian national interests...

Paissa hai Paissa ... Chinese Ka Paissa ... Nahin Koi Aissa ......:pound::pound::pound:
 
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Frontrunner

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The Brahminical Congress leadership and the Brahminical Bureacrcy of India thought that by creating a Beahminal Congress in Nepal led by the likes of Koirala, or Sharma or Tiwari etc to oust the Raja, they would be able to control Nepal, they have been proved utterly Childish time and again. RAW also seems to have cooked their goose there very badly as they were also on the same divisive path. The Maoists created and supported by them became their own headache like Bhinderwala or ULFA. Now the situation has developed so ad that Nepal has embarked on the path of harming Indian national interests...

Paissa hai Paissa ... Chinese Ka Paissa ... Nahin Koi Aissa ......:pound::pound::pound:

It has been a abject failure of our politicians nd diplomats... If we can't even Handle nepal diplomatically.. then god knows what we are wishing for...

Last thing india want is surrounded by anti india neighbors like pak, Nepal, Bangladesh, china, sri lanka...

Nepal case is very eminent as it's culturally nd religiously similar to India... If we lose it to communist nd culturally distinct Chinese.. than it would be our biggest lose of recent times..
 

IndianHawk

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Rupay card active in Nepal ? Or is it just Bhutan ? This seems like a low hanging fruit.
I don't know the status of rupay card there. But since we pay for 25% of entire Bhutan budget every year I guess rupay and upi both should be working in Bhutan or will work soon.

BTW Bhutan population is just 7 lakh and fertility rate is below replacement. Means Bhutan will depend on migration for survival as local population will further decrease.

Same thing is happening in Nepal and srilanka too. They will need migrants to make up for shortfall in their population. Guess where they might come from?

This is new, didn't know of this. What do we gain from it, aside from reducing Chinese influence in Sri lanka ?
We create a EU type system where all trade is free and freedom of movement has minimum restrictions. This will lead to faster growth for srilanka and southern India. As India will be able to take advantage of all ports and coast of srilanka for trade . Srilanka will be deeply integrate with south India With people moving freely for jobs and trade.

We benefit more geopolitically and influence wise. Srilanka benefits more financially. Srilanka will be able to take advantage of Indian economic growth and could become a hong Kong like financial and tourist hub for rest of India . Connecting with India srilanka could play the role of Singapore in ever increasing trade in Indo Pacific.
 

IndianHawk

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Okay we clearly need to learn more about our dharmic nneighbours . I may write a post about it in my thread India in facts and data. To understand connection in terms of economy trade and demographic future.
 

Bhadra

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Keeping low military profile in that area will suffice.. specially lipulekh paas on which this whole hue nd cries started surfacing.. it is supposed to be a route of Kailash mansarovar yatra.. where in we builded a road to make kailash yatra easy nd less time consuming ... route through nepal will take less time..

Only presence of bsf would suffice there.
No, I do not recommend giving in to this Chinese sponsored Napalese blackmail. They can not have two junctions to fix Inda Nepal boundary - one that they signed with Nepal in 1862 and one they are professing now. Otherwise there would be no end to such treachery...

Except for the China factor. why does India need Nepal. Oli, Sharma, Koirala, Bhattarai's need China. If they do not need India, it should be fine with Indians.

India - Nepal joint manship has very large potential to exploit resources for the benefits of the people of both countries particularly in water management and Hydropower projects. Nepal can not stop the water. so there's nothing much to lose.

Napalese wake up in dreams after 170 years and claim Lipulekh. Then India might claim entire Kathmandu..... there is no sense in it.. India will not take even one inch of Nepal even if they want to give it... otherwise Lumbini and Janakpur are Indian territories..
 

IndianHawk

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Are the Indians who have gone out of India for making money, taking up the govt job or otherwise people Like Swaraj paul, The Aggrwals of Vedanta or the steel magnets or the Bofor agent Ashok Layland owner Hinduja have been loyal or Indian interests. Are the American or Uk expatriates so loyal to India as we expect them to be? Then why should we expect different from people of Indian origin in Nepal?
I'm only expecting them to care for their own interests. In Nepal the interest of Indian origin people is to keep the border open . That's it. So as long they insist on this everything false in place.

And they will insist on it because their trade and movement depends on it.

Similarly indians in UK and USA care out more visas to Indian because they want their families to be able to move their and want their business to take advantage of cheap Indian labour.

You are failing to understand that very personal interest of Indian origin people are invariably linked to border Indian interest.

For indian origin politicians things are difficult as they have to assure their vote banks of loyalty towards nee country. But even anti modi Indian politicians in USA are still found Lobbying for h1b because that's still in their personal interest.
 

Frontrunner

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No, I do not recommend giving in to this Chinese sponsored Napalese blackmail. They can not have two junctions to fix Inda Nepal boundary - one that they signed with Nepal in 1862 and one they are professing now. Otherwise there would be no end to such treachery...

Except for the China factor. why does India need Nepal. Oli, Sharma, Koirala, Bhattarai's need China. If they do not need India, it should be fine with Indians.

India - Nepal joint manship has very large potential to exploit resources for the benefits of the people of both countries particularly in water management and Hydropower projects. Nepal can not stop the water. so there's nothing much to lose.

Napalese wake up in dreams after 170 years and claim Lipulekh. Then India might claim entire Kathmandu..... there is no sense in it.. India will not take even one inch of Nepal even if they want to give it... otherwise Lumbini and Janakpur are Indian territories..
Lol Nepalese are even claiming shimla nd garhwal as depicted by some 19th century map..

Here wht i think is... there is no point indulging in a banter nd verbal bout with nepalese.. let them chew into the oli churan.. soon oli will be left with nothing instead of cribbing about india...

The area Nepal claimed in recently released map is very tiny... Nd can be solved through diplomatic means.. however we should be careful not to provide brownie points for oli to score a political victory.
 

Knowitall

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This is what happens when you keep on feeding someone without them ever appreciating you.

We gives them so much in aid every year their people are always welcome here and yet what do we get this bullshit.

This is what happens when you go soft on everyone they don't appreciate what you do for them anymore.

We should really get serious about our borders we can be a very kind and helpful neighbor but if you try to bite more than you can chew you will be shown your place.
 

Assassin 2.0

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Lol Nepalese are even claiming shimla nd garhwal as depicted by some 19th century map..

Here wht i think is... there is no point indulging in a banter nd verbal bout with nepalese.. let them chew into the oli churan.. soon oli will be left with nothing instead of cribbing about india...

The area Nepal claimed in recently released map is very tiny... Nd can be solved through diplomatic means.. however we should be careful not to provide brownie points for oli to score a political victory.
We can have a land swap with nepal.
For Lipulekh pass;

But land swap should happen only when the nepali government have taken positive approach with india.

Hitting the low ground by going offensive and bad mouthing against Nepalese will be of no gain because india and nepal are stuck together.
 

ladder

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We recently stopped refined Palm oil import from Nepal and BD.
Nepal had found a quick fix to address the trade deficit with India by importing crude/ unrefined Palm oil ( through Indian ports?) and reselling to India after refining.
Now after Indian decision, those industry will down their shutters. But hey! They can always sell to China. Palm oil is definitely better and healthier than gutter oil.
 

Assassin 2.0

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After opening border outpost near Lipulekh Pass, Nepal may start three more BOPs near Uttarakhand
The first BOP became operational at Chhangru village near the Lipulekh Pass



| Credit: Google Maps
Times Now DigitalUpdated May 22, 2020 | 09:31 ISTAmid tension with India over constructing of a road till the Lipulekh pass; Nepal is planning to start three armed police border outposts along the India-Nepal border in Uttarakhand.
The first BOP became operational at Chhangru village near the Lipulekh Pass | Credit: Google Maps
The first BOP became operational at Chhangru village near the Lipulekh Pass | Credit: Google MapsKey Highlights'Such unilateral moves and territorial claims are completely unacceptable'The Nepalese government released a revised official map which has included Limpiyadhura, Lipulekh, and Kalapani, the areas which have been part of Indian territory'If Nepal is raising the issue, it is doing so at someone else's behest'
New Delhi: Nepal is planning to start three more armed police border outposts (BOP) along the India-Nepal border in Uttarakhand.

This comes after the first BOP became operational at Chhangru village near the Lipulekh Pass.

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The move is significant as it comes after tensions between the neighbours escalated over an 80-km-long road inaugurated by defence minister Rajnath Singh on May 8 allowing vehicular movement till near the Lipulekh Pass – known as the gateway to Tibet.

India completed the 80 km stretch connecting Ghatiabgarh and Lipulekh in Uttarakhand to ensure smooth ride of pilgrims to Kailash Mansarovar.

This route will reduce the usual travel time for the Kailash Mansarovar Yatra
This route will reduce the usual travel time for the Kailash Mansarovar Yatra by some six days.

Loading ...
After registering protest with India, Nepal released a revised official map which included Limpiyadhura, Lipulekh, and Kalapani, the areas which have been part of Indian territory.

Responding to this, India hit back at the Nepal government saying such unilateral moves and territorial claims are completely unacceptable.
 

Knowitall

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We can have a land swap with nepal.
For Lipulekh pass;

But land swap should happen only when the nepali government have taken positive approach with india.

Hitting the low ground by going offensive and bad mouthing against Nepalese will be of no gain because india and nepal are stuck together.
In my honest opinion no there should not be any land swap simply no.

We are in a powerful and better bargaing position and we must act like it.

When was the last time we saw a country in a position of power deal on equal terms.

A land swap might solve the problem for now 10 years later they might claim something else.

The more you give the more others will take territory is something a nation must never compromise with never.

They can shout all they want but they are in no position to do anything.

So we must sit and wait till the next elections.
 

Frontrunner

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We can have a land swap with nepal.
For Lipulekh pass;

But land swap should happen only when the nepali government have taken positive approach with india.

Hitting the low ground by going offensive and bad mouthing against Nepalese will be of no gain because india and nepal are stuck together.
Problem here is we don't claim anything inside nepal to hv a land swap... Here nepal claims lipulekh, kalapani nd limpyidhura.. which has been part of india since British india times... That area is tiny nd only surfaced in news when we built a road for Kailash yatra.. oli seiged an opportunity to again fan up anti india sentiments...

As i hv said border issues can be solved diplomatically.. all this drama of releasing new maps etc was perfectly planned by oli to grow his stature among common folks of nepal..
 
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Bhadra

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Anti India argument is political safeguard against domestic failure by Nepali politicians. Most of these protest and hating happen in Kathmandu only and rarely anywhere else.

The traditional Nepali elite are hill based people who don't like the madeshi / bihari and terai people gaining more influence with Indian support. So that is also cause of friction.

Bejing has tried stocking maosist led nationalasim in Nepal but it will backfire as any high intensity nationalism in Nepal will ultimately lead to Hindus rre asserting themselves which will we end of maosim in Nepal.

Nepal is so utterly dependent on India that it naturally blames India for all it's problems. But it doesn't get much traction out of Kathmandu.
Your reading of Nepal is bit off the track.

Nepali elites are all high caste Brahmans and Thakuries or Shreshthas sounding like Bist, Rana, Thakuri, Mal or Nagarkoti, Upadhayas and Bhats and not hilly poor peasant who are either Magars or Gurungs, or Lamas Rais and Limbus.

The Chinese have succeeded in driving a primary wedge in Napalese polity between the Hindus and Tamu Buddhists, Then between Hill people and Tarai people etc. Hinduism in Nepal stands weakened due to neo zealots Buddhists and Maoists Dotials and peasantry. Islam and Christianity has further eroded Hindu base significantly.

It a battle royal in Nepal for Political domination. All non-Hindu groups get significant foreign funding and Maoism has a connection as deep as Garhchiroli and JNU..
 

ezsasa

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This is what happens when you keep on feeding someone without them ever appreciating you.

We gives them so much in aid every year their people are always welcome here and yet what do we get this bullshit.

This is what happens when you go soft on everyone they don't appreciate what you do for them anymore.

We should really get serious about our borders we can be a very kind and helpful neighbor but if you try to bite more than you can chew you will be shown your place.
India needs to get used to being a large economy and associated characteristics.

Paki public keep hating USA in their public discourse and yet US keeps giving aid to Pakistan.

indian govt is clear about what they want to do, it’s time public learns to behave like citizens of a large economy.
 

AMCA

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China saved Nepal PM Oli's govt, he raised border dispute with India to repay favour
Manish Shukla | Updated: May 21, 2020, 06:33 PM IST
File Photo:

KP Sharma Oli and Xi Jinping
At the time when political turmoil was on the peak in Nepal, Oli approached China which is said to have played a significant role in saving his government.
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India and Nepal share a unique relationship of friendship and cooperation by open borders and direct people to people contact, but Nepal has now raised rhetoric by releasing a controversial map of the country which shows Indian territories of Lipulekh, Kalapani, Limpiyadhura as its own.
The question arises that at the time when India and China have enhanced military presence in Ladakh, why Nepal has opened a front against India. Recently, Indian Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane said that if Nepal is raising the issue, it is doing so at 'someone else's behest'.
In the early May, the political crisis had deepened in Nepal and senior leaders of Nepal Communist Party had publicly demanded Prime Minister KP Sharma Oli ‘s resignation. At the time when political turmoil was on the peak, Oli approached China which is said to have played a significant role in saving his government.

Chinese Ambassador Hou Yanqi held a series of meetings with senior Nepal communist Party leaders and resolved the crisis. She also sought the support of Nepal against an international movement targeting China.

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Most Political analysts agree that it is not Nepal but Oli personally who is behind the developments. Oli has manipulated the UML and MC merger process to capture both posts of Party Chairman and President. While applying one man one post principle for everyone, Oli refused to follow it himself, leading to opposition from other leaders.

He also made his close confidant as President. When there was opposition by Madhav Nepal and Prachanda to his leadership of the Party, Oli approached the Chinese Ambassador for help. Then Chinese Ambassador pressurized Madhav Nepal and Prachanda to back off and saved Oli. Now Oli is paying back for this help.

It is also believed that China engineered the grand alliance of two of the biggest communist parties in Nepal. In 2018, KP Sharma Oli and Pushpa Kamal Dahal, better known by his moniker 'Prachanda', had joined hands to form the Nepal Communist Party.

The way New Delhi used to influence Nepal politics has now been replaced by China. In the past, Nepal never had any objection over India constructing road till Lipulekh pass for ensuring a smooth ride to Kailash Mansarovar.

A day after Nepal’s cabinet endorsed a map showing of Indian territories Lipulekh, Kalapani, Limpiyadhura areas as part of its territory, India termed it "artificial enlargement of territorial claims."

"The Government of Nepal has released a revised official map of Nepal today that includes parts of Indian territory. This unilateral act is not based on historical facts and evidence. It is contrary to the bilateral understanding to resolve the outstanding boundary issues through diplomatic dialogue. Such artificial enlargement of territorial claims will not be accepted by India," Said Anurag Srivastava, Official Spokesperson of Indian Ministry of External Affairs.

MEA added that Nepal is well aware of India’s consistent position on this matter. "We urge the Government of Nepal to refrain from such unjustified cartographic assertion and respect India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. We hope that the Nepalese leadership will create a positive atmosphere for diplomatic dialogue to resolve the outstanding boundary issues," the MEA said.

New Delhi sees an increased Chinese role in Nepal as a reason for current remarks by Kathmandu. Indian Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane had hinted at foreign involvement with Nepal raking up the Lipulekh issue.

Army Chief, speaking at Defence Ministry think tank IDSA's online meet, said, "I do not know exactly what they are exactly agitating about. Never been a problem in the past, reasons to believe they might have raised these problems, issues at the behest of someone else and there is very much a possibility."

If we peep into history, when the British demarcated the border between India and Nepal, they made the Mahakali river as the base. Nepal believes that its boundary does not start from the river but from the first waterfall in the mountains. If this claim of Nepal is accepted, India will have to lose 5-km area to Nepal, covering about 32 sq km, besides a large part of the Lipulekh Pass.

In the 19th century, Britain had attacked Nepal several times and reached an agreement, known as Sugauli accord. Under this agreement, Nepal gave up its claim on the areas of India which it had in possession.

During the 1857 War of Independence, Nepal's army helped Britain. Pleased with this, Britain had returned a lot of land to Nepal, especially the areas of the Terai region including Janakpur and Kapilvastu. Indo-Nepal boundaries were re-determined in 1865. After a silence of so many years, Nepal's recent move appears to be at the behest of China.




Here is few recent reporting by #Nepalese mainstream newspapers on #Chinese role in internal politics of #Nepal & interfrence by Chinese envoy in communist party led govt of Himalayan country, now one can easily understand recent diatribe agnst India & #Kalapani border row
 

IndianHawk

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Your reading of Nepal is bit off the track.

Nepali elites are all high caste Brahmans and Thakuries or Shreshthas sounding like Bist, Rana, Thakuri, Mal or Nagarkoti, Upadhayas and Bhats and not hilly poor peasant who are either Magars or Gurungs, or Lamas Rais and Limbus.

The Chinese have succeeded in driving a primary wedge in Napalese polity between the Hindus and Tamu Buddhists, Then between Hill people and Tarai people etc. Hinduism in Nepal stands weakened due to neo zealots Buddhists and Maoists Dotials and peasantry. Islam and Christianity has further eroded Hindu base significantly.

It a battle royal in Nepal for Political domination. All non-Hindu groups get significant foreign funding and Maoism has a connection as deep as Garhchiroli and JNU..
These brahmins and ranas are traditional Nepali ruling class. Being brahmins is not the issue but being traditional elite is the problem with them.
( Rss is also bramhinical in foundation so is bjp mostly).

Hindus are still 85% of Nepal. So Buddhist influence is minimal. Maosist are surely Being supported by both Beijing and west against Hinduism. That's correct .
But as I said before maosist can't push nationalism too far as eventually it will become Hindu nationalism and then maosist will find themselves useless. So it it a complex game plan .

Anyway it's all very shortsighted. Ultimately Nepali population will start declining by 2050 according to latest estimate could happen even earlier. Probability is that no one will be living where nepalis are claiming land. So as long a open border remains Nepal is being more and more integrated with India each day . No amount of political hue and cry can change that.
 

Bhadra

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Problem here is we don't claim anything inside nepal to hv a land swap... Here nepal claims lipulekh, kalapani nd limpyidhura.. which has been part of india since British india times... That area is tiny nd only surfaced in news when we built a road for Kailash yatra.. oli seiged an opportunity to again fan up anti india sentiments...

As i hv said border issues can be solved diplomatically.. all this drama of realising new maps etc was perfectly planned by oli to grow his stature among common folks of nepal..
No the facts are contrary=

India has been carrying out border trade with China from Lipulekh since 1959. Itis recognised pass between India and China.

Sino - Naplese treaty on border fixed trijunction al kali River and Map attached to it shows Kali River near Likpulekh and not five km away at Limpiyadhura.

Indian pilgrims haven performing Mansarovar yatra from Lipulekh since then.

There is a permanent police (now ITBP) post at Kalapani since very long time.

Revenue Villages Gunji and Kuti are Indian villages since very long since 1865.

There is no ground for Nepal to raise any dispute at this juncture. I think everyone in Indian establishment is simply flabbergasted with this Nepal Govt stupidity....
 

IndianHawk

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India needs to get used to being a large economy and associated characteristics.

Paki public keep hating USA in their public discourse and yet US keeps giving aid to Pakistan.

indian govt is clear about what they want to do, it’s time public learns to behave like citizens of a large economy.
India is the largest trading partner of Nepal . China doesn't even come close.


India accounts for 53% of all Nepali export (about 500 million usd) and 70% of Nepali imports!! About 7 billion usd.).

This data from 2017. We have almost 6.5 billion usd surplus with Nepal. It's hugely beneficial for us.
 

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