India Launched Surgical Strikes Across LoC: DGMO 29/09/2016

aditya g

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Superb post..... spot on.

It's evident what's the purpose of this "revelation".

1. An attempt to "disperse" the perceived political malai lest PM and GoI get all the credit in public eyes- as it's happening many places. The Hindu knows it so do their political and overseas overlords.

2. An attempt to do an equal-equal. This also happened in the past, nevermind that they were local events when the forces that went in were completely on their own.

3. If this document is real and not recreation of the events by The Hindu, it's frightening that they had unprecedented access to confidential GoI documents during UPA regime. One can only wonder how many more such documents they've laid their hands during that time and how many have they cached, to be revealed when the time comes.

Someone should ask those attempting to do an equal-equal, what was the political cover for the troops that went in for these strikes? Did the then GoI simply wash its hands off the affair and bhagwaan na kare, if these missions had gone wrong, were they prepared to deal with the ramifications? I think we'll find that the answer is probably not.

This is what made the present surgical strikes so different. @Immanuel (hats off mate for you early and very accurate portrayals of these ops without giving away the operational details) pointed this out and this was subsequently clarified by senior officers and personnel.

1. IA and PARA SF in particular have a long and decorated history of covert ops across the LoC (and I assume probably IB as well). But while, MOST of the previous ops were isolated suppressed localised badla strikes (Op Ginger is a classical example) that targeted isolated and remote TSPA outposts. The 29/09 strikes were on a completely different scale and yet stayed under the radar. These operations that targeted a wide swathe of terror camps along a 250km frontier. The objectives went far beyond avenging Uri. The objectives were to not only to avenge Uri but also deal a crippling blow to the piglet delivery services (or PDS if you will) along the LoC. Those halaaled included handlers, ideologues, tanzeemis and coordinators. Way above the esclataory ladder than was concentrated upon by the previous strikes. The piglets were of the view that they were safe till they reached the LoC, afterwards they were to be fidaayeen anyway. They may not have been afraid of dying, but their handlers and immediate supervisors definitely were. It is these senior piglets that have been targeted by these Ops. They'll be forced to adapt, evolve and look over their shoulders.

2. Our men, who included SFs, Ghataks and possibly Garuds (that itself is a marvel of coordinated action, to bring together different commands in a synchronised fashion such that their actions had a devastating cumulative effect), were backed up by satellites, by helicopter gunships ready to move in if called upon and by massed artillery.

3. IAF sorties, not only along LoC, but along IB as well and IN navy commencing their exercises also kept up the pressure on Bakis. They activated their air assets anticipating a vicious punch. The punch landed with ferocity of a typhoon, but not from where they were expecting- they were bracing for a punch in the face, but a devastating blow landed on their gonads. This explains the amount of taqleef and the likes of Just lying, pissing all over the forum.

4. These tell us that the political leadership was well prepared to escalate had the things not turned out as perfectly as they did- once again hats off to our troops for the textbook precision with which they executed the Ops and the piglets. I am sure in the years to come this will be added to the legends of the Paras and to the training models of special ops not just in India but around the world.

This is why Congress and The Hindu's attempt to do an equal-equal are deplorable and malevolent. One can clearly seen that the strikes have left a deep impact on the psyche of not just piglets, but many politicos as well.
.............
 

aditya g

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This is what the likes of Praveen Swami and NGO funded presstitutes and award wapasi gang dont want to change. They have vested interest in the countrymen being afraid and hesitant to protect our interests

Before surgical strikes Pakistan used to bitch daily about war , nukes and what not .
After Pakistan wants dialogue, peace and oh war is no option!!

And yet fuckers want proof :yo:
 

Project Dharma

meh
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I'm wondering what would have happened had the commando mission failed and if they had been captured or worse in enemy territory? Would the government of India have scrambled airforce assets and backup teams and launched a full scale attack in support?
 

anoop_mig25

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http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...-in-2011-is-one-of-the-deadliest-ever/411921/

Operation ginger: The ‘surgical strike’ by Indian Army on Pakistan in 2011 is one of the deadliest ever

this was not the first strike
Either congress are moron s or they did delibrate to bring shame to country

What hindu is positing is WAR crime and pakistan can legally take action against us

Morn congrees support on twiiter are happily calming it

I think Hindu delibarte printed it.

It must same news which NDTV did published in its chindu`s interview
 

anoop_mig25

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Allmost every news media like of indian express/HT/NDTV/TIMES etc etc have talked with every ex armed forces personnel to get one of them to tell that present surgical strikes is same as that of past (just that it was never publicly acknowledge and no official support )and there is nothing to chest beat around it but each and every forces personnel had said its was different and bold that it has been owned by current GOI
 

anoop_mig25

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On the basis of a news article? If that was true, India would have sued Pakistan into oblivion based on their terrorist support and articles in the media.
I said pak can take legal action basis on Hindu arctile and moron congressi spokers person JHA and other on twitter who are calming that this srike happened durning their ruling period

GoI can off course deny since there is no proof official except that at hindu office who calims they have video proof of it
 

mayfair

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I'm wondering what would have happened had the commando mission failed and if they had been captured or worse in enemy territory? Would the government of India have scrambled airforce assets and backup teams and launched a full scale attack in support?
As I pointed out in my post, helicopter gunships were on the standby, ready to move in had our troops needed assistance during the Ops. For them to be captured, Bakis would have had to respond lightening quick or have prepared an ambush before hand.

This is where intelligence and coordinated action comes in. Baki air and ground assets were pinned down by massed artillery and IAF sorties. And as per @Immanuel those that did try to respond, turned tail as soon as the realised the ferocity of the attack.

By all indications it's evident that GoI was prepared to go up the escalatory ladder had the things gone pear shaped- bhagwaan ki daya se aur jawaano ki karmathhta se they didn't. GoI quickly acknowledged that our RR soldier had crossed over and efforts are on to get him back.
 

Archer

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I think there are a lot of perks involved. :)
I also don't think they are world-class (i m assuming you mean usa class)
Tidbit: One of the designers of the B-2 Spirit ("stealth" bomber) is a naturalized US citizen of parsi origin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noshir_Gowadia
He is currently in prison for selling B-2 stealth secrets to PRC.

But perhaps @Indx TechStyle will have a more detailed answer.
Pretty pointless comment. Salary alone does not dictate class. By those standards, no Indian is world class, if the forex comparisons are taken into account.
 

Project Dharma

meh
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Pretty pointless comment. Salary alone does not dictate class. By those standards, no Indian is world class, if the forex comparisons are taken into account.
It's not pointless, the salaries are much lower than the civil sector. We were commenting about the incentive for somebody to join DRDO instead of a much higher paying job for a private company.
 

dude00720

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Fact1 : India did raid cross-border in 2011.
Fact2 : THis was a local operation. Forget Political, even ARmy Chief came to know it post-facto

Fact 3: 29th was a Surgical strike not a cross-border raid.
Fact 4: All Govt machinery was behind this.

Fact 5: Politics is happening around it.

Qn1: Why is Politics a problem? Decision was Political. Army was Ready and whole country was behind them,
Qn2: Why did UPA not publicise the 2011 raid when they came to know about it? To me, this sounds like they wanted to keep the Army and the country in Fear.
Qn3: Who will want to keep the army in Fear? Ans: Our enemies, Pakistan, China and the NAC crowd.

What should we do?
See through the confusion. It was said by chidambaram, that, if army had not disagreed Siachen and Sir Creek would be solved. aka given to pakistan.

THE END..

P.S. We need to discuss fixing the insiders now. There is Political will, but Intolerance bogey stops the Govt.
 

dude00720

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It's not pointless, the salaries are much lower than the civil sector. We were commenting about the incentive for somebody to join DRDO instead of a much higher paying job for a private company.
The bureaucracy Hurts a lot of people, more than the salary. Personally Know people who left since, they were heavily discouraged.
 

Zarvan

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Arya Sharma/Catch News

India may be compelled to provide the evidence it has of the 'surgical strikes' it claims it conducted across the Line of Control (LoC) to destroy terrorist launch pads in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK).

There have been unconfirmed stories of how the Special Forces wore helmet cameras to capture the destruction they wrought on the enemy - almost following the script of Zero Dark Thirty. Home Minister Rajnath Singh has said "just wait and watch" when asked about the purported video evidence of the strikes across the LoC.

Both Delhi Chief Minister Arvind Kejriwal as well as the Congress party have asked the government to "call Pakistan's bluff" by making public the evidence of the 'surgical strikes'. The BJP retaliated by accusing the Opposition of questioning the army's competence.

No-holds-barred: BJP-Congress slugfest over 'surgical strikes' escalates
One possible explanation why such evidence has not been made public up to now could be that India does not want to escalate the tensions with Pakistan any further. However, that has not stopped Pakistan from ridiculing the Indian claims.

It is no surprise that the credibility of the Indian claims has come under question from the Pakistani media - which may be suffering from the same jingoistic adrenaline high as the Indian media. However, it is also being questioned now by the international media.

This could well be because on last Saturday, Pakistan Army took a group of international journalists to the area where the Indian Army supposedly conducted the surgical raids. It tried to debunk the Indian claims.

PAKISTAN QUESTIONS INDIA'S CLAIMS

The Director General of Inter-Services Public Relations, Lt. General Asim Bajwa questioned Indian claims by asking, "Where did all the dead bodies go? Where were the funerals? Why haven't the Indians produced any dead bodies if they took them back? Where is the damage?"

Maj. Gen. Muhammad Chiragh Haider, the commander of the 23rd Infantry Division of the Pakistan Army posted in PoK across the LoC from India expressed surprise at the Indian claims saying they were totally incomprehensible. He wondered how was it possible that "a surgical strike took place against us, and we were not even aware of it?"

International media while admitting that the claims of the Pakistan Army Generals who were chaperoning them were difficult to verify, nonetheless interviewed local residents independently. They also seemed incredulous about the Indian claims.


Thus, Agence France Presse reported, "It was not possible to verify the General's claims, though villagers who spoke with a second AFP reporter in the area independent of the military-guided trip were also incredulous."

In an independent dispatch, the BBC reported: "In the Bhimber, Leepa and Neelum valley regions, several eyewitnesses reported cross-border shelling - but, crucially, none said they saw any aerial or ground incursions by Indian troops."




"International media entities such as BBC and Washington posts have questioned India's claims"
The Washington Post has also questioned India's claims of surgical strikes after visiting the areas where they were supposed to have been conducted. The New York Times was more circumspect. Quoting an Associated Press report it asked: "Who is telling the truth? No outsider knows for sure. ... Access to the area is restricted on both sides. Officials in both countries are leaking select details to reporters, while announcing almost nothing openly."

Pakistani strategic analyst Ayesha Siddqa admits to a limited operation. Writing in The Wire, she says:

"Contrary to the impression created by India's DGMO, the operation across the border was limited in scale and less gargantuan than claimed.


"Reportedly, Indian troops crossed over not more than 200 meters inside the Pakistani side of the Line of Control to attack an LeT camp located some 100 metres away from an army check post at Dudhnial. The fact that it was a limited scale operation made it possible for Pakistan to couch this as nothing more than firing and a border violation. While it attained some goals in the form of killing 5-6 militants, the use of the term 'surgical strike' was misleading. Perhaps, a better term was a 'targeted' operation in which the risk of further escalation was avoided by not killing military personnel at the nearby check post. Reports indicate that only 3-4 army personnel were injured due to the use of grenades against the post."

The Narendra Modi government needs to debunk these claims alleging that either the operation did not take place or if it did, it was limited to a single strike across the LoC. It should not let its credibility be eroded by such allegations.

PARTS THAT DON'T ADD UP

With nationalist fervor at its pitch in the media and elsewhere in India, it is impossible to question the claims of the surgical strikes by the government without being branded anti-national.

However, some questions are being raised within the security community in India and they are worth pondering over. Naturally, no one wants to come on record and identify themselves. Some of these questions are being raised in closed social media groups comprising defence experts.

Here are the uncomfortable issues they have raised:


  • The government has claimed that Indian Special Forces carried out strikes 500 metres to 2 kilometres inside PoK. Experts claim that Pakistan's Forward Defended Localities (FDLs) are situated inside the PoK at an average distance of 1 to 2 km from the LoC. Under these circumstances, they ask, "How is it possible for camps to exist in the line of Pak FDLs or in front of them?"

  • They also point out that both Pakistan and Indian FDLs are mined and heavily guarded. "How did our commandos manage to go inside and bypass Pak FDLs to strike for three hours and return without being challenged or fired at? Moreover, how come choppers hovered in the vicinity of Pak FDLs without being fired at? Not even a single FDL retaliated? Not even a single mine exploded ?" they ask. (Actually, the army claims that one Indian soldier was injured in a mine explosion).



"How can heavily armed terrorists be killed without any retaliation? In all 7 camps?"
  • Further, they point out that the FDLs are on hill tops and there are deep forested gorges embracing the hills and ask, "How come paratroopers land in deep and densely forested gorges so smoothly?"

  • The claim that the terrorists were caught unawares is also being questioned: "How come heavily armed terrorists were killed in all camps without any retaliation? Were they drugged and asleep? Didn't they hear the choppers ? Were they sleeping without sentries? In all the seven camps?"

  • These skeptics point out that the Indian Army often takes hours or even days to kill three or four terrorists inside India and that too in broad daylight with Rocket Launchers (RLs), Automatic Grenade Launchers (AGLs), Light Machine Guns, (LMGs), etc at their disposal and with a huge manpower component. If the area happens to be forested, the army operation against terrorists can days and in each operation there are soldiers who suffer injuries and there are casualties


  • In Pathankot, the Indian security forces took four days to kill the terrorists inside the enclosed campus of the Air Force station and till today there is confusion about the exact number of terrorists involved in that attack.

  • If this is how operations have been carried out in the past, they ask, "Then how come our Special Forces did everything perfectly in the middle of the night, killed all, destroyed (terrorist) camps and counted the bodies, separated Pakistani Army bodies (from that of the terrorists), counted them separately, made videos and came back without a scratch on their bodies within four hours?"

  • They point out that at night a fully loaded infantry can walk only a kilometer-plus in mountainous terrain. Not in this case of 'surgical strikes' though.



"Army ops against terrorists in India often last 3-4 days. How could this be accomplished in 4 hours?"
  • In this case, how is it that "the Special Forces personnel, fully armed with bullet-proof jackets moved tactically - that is crawled, took cover, and while maintaining radio silence managed to locate (terrorist) camps, cleared minefields, walked uphill in those heights in oxygen-deficient conditions and still managed a perfect 10 and came back within four hours?"

  • Also, they ask, how is it that perfect intelligence inputs were available this time around for more than half a dozen terrorist camps and the movement of terrorist and not earlier? If such detailed information about the movement of terrorists across the LoC had been available earlier, then the attack on the army camp in Uri could have been prevented.

  • Questioning the claims being made, they ask: "For so many years launch pads are (being) used by terrorists supported by the Pakistan Army in PoK. If our Army had pin point info (sic), why didn't we act earlier? Why (did) Uri happen?"

The government has claimed that it has evidence of the military operations carried out across the LoC in the wake of the terrorist attack in Uri. It must now present credible evidence of the operations publicly so that neither the international media nor skeptics within the Indian strategic community question the credibility of its claims. As for Pakistani claims, they can be ignored.

http://www.catchnews.com/india-news...ve-to-know-the-truth-1475587137.html/fullview

For those Indians who are not to dumb to blindly believe what their Army under Modi is trying to sell them
 
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