India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[LETHALFORCE]

I think one of the zumwalt destroyers has it undergoing tests if I am not wrong.....US navy deployed laser guns to take down drones too but they still operate in very narrow regimes. But certainly sound promising....

yes I know us has but don’t believe anything from China at that level

 

[omaebakabaka]

Chinese made weapon won't work for long that's for sure. But India really need to screw OFBs Babudom and start mass producing ammo of good grade.

Air power , Artillery Tanks Assault Rifles Medium and Heavy machine gun should be available in plenty with ammunition for us to give them a never ending nightmare. Right now in short term we may have 50-50 or so but if the war escalates they won't be able to survive against Indian soldiers on ground and in air or water.

That's because they don't hire artisans that has generations of experience in metallurgy and alchemists and blacksmiths. What we hire are substandard engineers with one year of workshop experience. No innovation will comes, insas is the evidence and am trying to high ball it.

 

[omaebakabaka]

yes I know us has but don’t believe anything from China at that level

Ya, nothing in deployed mode. They stole too much from US companies and academic institutions but Trump is clamping down and FBI has even arrested quite a few.

 

[sachincba]

I am surprised by how much people are giving importance to LAC line? Why does it matter? Don't we believe that all land till Johnson line is ours?
Wherever Chinese are till Johnson line, they are
there illegally and we need to clear Chinese from every inch till Johnson line.
There is no LAC. Who said there is LAC? India? China? None. And when there is no LAC what is this so called perception of LAC. All bullshit.

The only boundary is Johnson line. There is no other line there. And any gains we make till Johnson line cannot be termed aggression.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

One thing we need to deploy there quickly is high altitude recon drones for 24x7 surveillance. This also means black top all nearby ALGs and setup good infrastructure there including living quarters. Also set up remotely operated cannons and guns on the strategic heights captured by us. This will help minimize the personnel to be deployed yet keep recon and lethal power very high. Drones and remote artillery are the future of first level of staring contest between nations and even limited conflicts. We got to setup drone and robo-turret making factories real quick with technology help from allies especially japan the leaders in robotics.

Develop Remote 155mm gun like this:

RCH 155 - KNDS

The RCH 155 is a combination of automated artillery firepower and protected wheeled mobility.

www.kmweg.com

 

[omaebakabaka]

I am surprised by how much people are giving importance to LAC line? Why does it matter? Don't we believe that all land till Johnson line is ours?
Wherever Chinese are till Johnson line, they are
there illegally and we need to clear Chinese from every inch till Johnson line.
There is no LAC. Who said there is LAC? India? China? None. And when there is no LAC what is this so called perception of LAC. All bullshit.

The only boundary is Johnson line. There is no other line there. And any gains we make till Johnson line cannot be termed aggression.

Internal Tibetan Rebellion will lead to no borders in himalayas between India and tibet. World will gladly approve independent Tibet but its patience game along with Chanakya neeti.

 

[LDev]

Somebody had posted about the proposal to have dogs accompany ITBP/IA soldiers and then some other poster was worried about the dogs being eaten!! by the Chinese. Well, here is the answer. Artificial dogs!! Robot dogs being tested by the US Army. And developed by a company called Ghost Vision with the CEO being a person of Indian origin, Jiren Parikh. If the PLA tries to capture these dogs, they will blow themselves up!!

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

They will be matched no matter what they try to escalate too. Imo the higher ups in the PLA have little faith in their soldiers and commanders and at times I also think their weapons?

How will we match their AF without the numbers.

Quantity has its own quality.

 

[Sanglamorre]

I am surprised by how much people are giving importance to LAC line? Why does it matter? Don't we believe that all land till Johnson line is ours?
Wherever Chinese are till Johnson line, they are
there illegally and we need to clear Chinese from every inch till Johnson line.
There is no LAC. Who said there is LAC? India? China? None. And when there is no LAC what is this so called perception of LAC. All bullshit.

The only boundary is Johnson line. There is no other line there. And any gains we make till Johnson line cannot be termed aggression.

Johnson Line is our claim line. Our on ground position is LAC. When we talk of political will and signalling, then talking of JL is fine as what we should aim for and etc.

When we talk about military stuff, LAC is what we currently hold (not counting the advances we have made recently) and what will be the starting of our operations. China has de facto control over land beyond LAC and we cannot be in denial about it. So imho, it's not wrong to think it's a big deal when we make advances beyond LAC, places controlled by China for decades.

And, both India and China have legally said there's an LAC btw in the BOrder Patrol agreements. It's the position of it that's the bone of contention prior to this year.

Of course we won't term it aggression. I haven't seen anyone from Indian side (except internet trolls or paid journos) calling it so. Other countries might disagree, just like how they disagree when PRC pulls out old maps and claims other places and tries to invade. But, we don't need to listen to them.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Somebody had posted about the proposal to have dogs accompany ITBP/IA soldiers and then some other poster was worried about the dogs being eaten!! by the Chinese. Well, here is the answer. Artificial dogs!! Robot dogs being tested by the US Army. And developed by a company called Ghost Vision with the CEO being a person of Indian origin, Jiren Parikh. If the PLA tries to capture these dogs, they will blow themselves up!!

With the recent fiasco, ITBP might not have to worry about it that much. Though it'll be tough to send them back when there isn't an alternative to operate in those conditions.

 

[omaebakabaka]

How will we match their AF without the numbers.

Quantity has its own quality.

Let me work it a bit....

PLAF is about 3000 fighters of various kind even if you exaggerate.....out of that roughly 1000 are considered modern (including j-10s).....lets say they want to deploy 50 to 60% which means 500 to 600, thats about 34 squads based on IAF squad....do they have that many airbases in range to deploy? Coming from high altitude they already inherit penalties in range and load capacity....

Compare that to India:

About 400 to 500 fighters inclusing mig 21s......our bases are at sea level and can perform to max....and more likely we will try to take out their airbase if they are in range. I can explain more but this gives you an idea on why they may not go for air battles.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

How will we match their AF without the numbers.

Quantity has its own quality.

From what I read their closest air base is 300km or more away all their j planes cannot take off or land without long runways which they don’t have and they all lack payload capability and are not battle tested.So there are many things beyond the quantity. Our airfields are 100km away and we have airstrips and planes that don’t require long runways. Lack of planes has been a disadvantage for three decades and one that should no longer exist.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Let me work it a bit....

PLAF is about 3000 fighters of various kind even if you exaggerate.....out of that roughly 1000 are considered modern (including j-10s).....lets say they want to deploy 50 to 60% which means 500 to 600, thats about 34 squads based on IAF squad....do they have that many airbases in range to deploy? Coming from high altitude they already inherit penalties in range and load capacity....

Compare that to India:

About 400 to 500 fighters inclusing mig 21s......our bases are at sea level and can perform to max....and more likely we will try to take out their airbase if they are in range. I can explain more but this gives you an idea on why they may not go for air battles.

I will also add that this is just an over simplification rough back of the napkin bakwaas but thats what we all do here.....what remain true is what Ramayana said and what Vidhurji and Bheeshmacharyaji said to Dhuryodhan directly and indirectly many times.....know your enemy, understand your enemy before going to war. It means take your time if you need it like Rama did and Pandavas did during 12+1 years to get their strength to fight war. I digressed probably....

 

[mist_consecutive]

Or, they'll pull a 27th Feb like Pakis. Conduct an operation that seems daring on surface, but fails to do any damage that GoI can stir up emotions against.

Let's say, bombing DS-DBO Rd. They can claim IA is isolated and starving because they cut off roads, or bomb some sparsely held observation post that results in no deaths (learning from slave tricks to miss bombs), or I won't be surprised if they unloaded weapons on a deserted hill inside Indian Territory like in their propaganda video and call it a victory and that they actually let us off with a warning.

Their real action would be to incite riots like they did in US. But, they don't realise India is used to that unlike US. By the end of second day, rioters will be crying and end of one week entire neighborhoods would be cleaned of Peaceful people.

Another flashpoint they'll try is Nagaland via Naga accords. They'd be only too happy to get us to bomb Kohima again instead of PLA.

I fear the real attack, if any might come from Nagaland, not AP via uniformed militias and terrorists. I'm not going to call it a terrorist attack because the scale will be, if such an attack happens, quite high. Nothing like tanks or anything. Just lots of chinkies cosplaying as Nagas with rifles and atgms.

Well unfortunately none of these stunts will win them back captured peaks, so they will do something that will allow them to take these peaks back. That includes -

• Capturing some land elsewhere and negotiating (high possibility IMO, they might para-drop their troops over some isolated area and try to control it)
• A direct assault on the peaks (If they have an iota of intelligence, they will not do it, but it cannot be ruled out).

 

[Longewala]

they came well prepared and planned earth movers, laborers, diverting rivers ,body heat scanning drones etc. Big guns will not be easy to handle in this terrain. They had many strategic hilltops hard to believe they were not prepared to defend them.

Not enough infantry, and even the troops they had didn't have the appetite for it.
We are lucky the border with China is what it is, prevents them from bringing their mechanised forces and air force to full effect.

Not to underemphasize serious shortcomings - not enough heavy artillery / pinaka, or AWACS, dedicated EW aircraft, etc...

But we benefit from interior lines, and that we can bring superior mechanised forces to bear on the Western front (which is relatively flat) and superior or at least competitive infantry forces on the Eastern.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Not enough infantry, and even the troops they had didn't have the appetite for it.
We are lucky the border with China is what it is, prevents them from bringing their mechanised forces and air force to full effect.

Not to underemphasize serious shortcomings - not enough heavy artillery / pinaka, or AWACS, dedicated EW aircraft, etc...

But we benefit from interior lines, and that we can bring superior mechanised forces to bear on the Western front (which is relatively flat) and superior or at least competitive infantry forces on the Eastern.

True, unfortunately that made us a bit complicit in the past too until we got kicked in the nuts few times.

 

[Longewala]

True, unfortunately that made us a bit complicit in the past too until we got kicked in the nuts few times.

In fact I would argue the army of Bharat post 1947 has done really well despite being often caught unprepared or inferior in tech (invariably due to political reasons and lack of funding)
1962 was a bad loss because we were badly outnumbered, lacking equipment, badly led and didn't use air force

But ignoring that gift from Nehru, every single battle has gone India's way
1948: caught by surprise but still recaptured most of Kashmir until Chachajaan...
1965: equal numbers in the west but badly inferior in artillery and armour, still had the better and did at khem kharan what the goras failed to do at Sedan
1967 Sumdorong, 1987, Kargil, Siachen, the skirmishes this year...none of them reflect badly on our military.
And 1971, running over Bdesh in weeks on difficult terrain or the Karachi attack, if this was the Israelis would be acclaimed as military genius

 

[omaebakabaka]

In fact I would argue the army of Bharat post 1947 has done really well despite being often caught unprepared or inferior in tech (invariably due to political reasons and lack of funding)
1962 was a bad loss because we were badly outnumbered, lacking equipment, badly led and didn't use air force

But ignoring that gift from Nehru, every single battle has gone India's way
1948: caught by surprise but still recaptured most of Kashmir until Chachajaan...
1965: equal numbers in the west but badly inferior in artillery and armour, still had the better and did at khem kharan what the goras failed to do at Sedan
1967 Sumdorong, 1987, Kargil, Siachen, the skirmishes this year...none of them reflect badly on our military.
And 1971, running over Bdesh in weeks on difficult terrain or the Karachi attack, if this was the Israelis would be acclaimed as military genius

Agreed, but pains to see that we lost some of the most fertile and revered lands in the form of Pakistan, Bangladesh on the whole. The pain comes million times when you see the Chanakya tv series which is my favorite in contrast to current Bharat. Uttisht Bharat!

Varthman is what matters most....so we continue.

 

[ataru09]

If you can guide a round on ground you can very well use it to target in air too against an incoming missile or drone.

Not that simple. Air would be an order of magnitude more difficult. 2d vs 3d.

Not saying it can't be done though but it's a different thing altogether.

 

[Synergy]

So .. here we have blacktop under Indian control.. lol..

you know, when I see these kind of images or videos, my eyes become little bit moist. may be I'm getting older and emotion is starting to kick in.
Salute to them.

point to note : they are actual volenteers who are transporting to different locations. now when they utter Black Top, to me it weighs much more than the analysis of some fellas sitting in the studio or ac room.
I may be wrong but I'll bet on them and am convinced that Black Top is under our control.