India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Assassin 2.0]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet">
More: The marathon meeting finalised disengagement at Pangong Tso. De-escalation still some time away. When details of final disengagement (with in-built verification process) come out, may be late tonight or Thurs morning, many people will be surprised. Patience is the key
&mdash; Nitin A. Gokhale (@nitingokhale) July 15, 2020

How do you post a tweet here. This is Nitin Gokhale's tweet.

Bro just copy the link of the tweet and past in the typing section

 

[LETHALFORCE]

U.S. to back nations that say China violated their South China Sea claims

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said on Wednesday the United States will support countries that believe China has violated their maritime claims in the South China Sea but suggested it would do so through diplomatic rather than military means.

www.reuters.com

U.S. to back nations that say China violated their South China Sea claims

 

[Synergy]

The PLAAF's at the a Losseses's.

The question is less whether the Rafale does well--I'd consider the Rafale doing well as shooting down some J-20s but rather whether or not the IAF's are emboldened by the Rafale.

As for general Rafale vs J-20; there's a lot of wild-cards there. The J-20 could be poorly piloted, i.e, being overly aggressively and the fact that the Rafale has IRST, and that the Meteor can be data-linked. The J-20, likewise, could be a less capable system than we expect, or the Rafale more capable (the J-20 wants to kill the Rafale BVR since WVR it'll likely be outmatched with its current engines).

And yeah, the Rafale, the entire PLAF's fodder for a combination of J-10s, J-11s, PL-10s, and PL-15s, provided the Chinese 4th gen's have .

You have to remember, that the PLAAF vs the IAF's in the area is bases vs technology; the IAF's can bring almost all of the force to bear vs China, while China has very few military airbases in the area with full stocks of munitions, spares, and so on.

It's literally the reverse of the typical PLAAF set-up where the PLAAF has to consider opponent qualitative advantages except in rare cases Su-30MKKs vs F-15Js for instance, there's no BVR superiority and the Su-30MKKs perform better BVR's. The only thing for the IAF's that could possibly even the scales would be the Rafale+Meteor combo, and the loss of a 5th generation aircraft vs a 4.5++ generation aircraft would be quite a blow to Chinese prestige and credibility.

MiG 21 may add many feathers in it's cap before retiring.

 

[garg_bharat]

India's shopping for lightweight mountain-friendly tanks post China tussles

This will be a significant upgrade allowing the reintroduction of light tanks that can play a critical role in areas such as Ladakh, where they can be more nimble than the heavier main battle tanks, informed sources told ET. The acquisition will be made under the emergency purchase nod given...

m.economictimes.com

Are light tanks even needed? Would t-72 and atgm suffice for the job?

T-72 itself is a light tank.
India does not need a mirror deployment. What India needs is effective weapons given the terrain.

 

[Lancer]

Not bad.

Scrambling to buy a bunch of light tanks (some rumors of it recently), seems kind of dumb to me to be honest. Would make more sense to focus on LCH's + more anti tank missile crews to deal with China's light tanks.

And either go for new tank killing APC's, or upgrade the APC's existing in your inventory to swarm China's light tanks.

 

[garg_bharat]

Scrambling to buy a bunch of light tanks (some rumors of it recently), seems kind of dumb to me to be honest. Would make more sense to focus on LCH's + more anti tank missile crews to deal with China's light tanks.

And either go for new tank killing APC's, or upgrade the APC's existing in your inventory to swarm China's light tanks.

Why not go for longer range anti tank missiles fired from lightweight platforms like jeeps.
I am bit amazed at the army thinking. They always want to go for most expensive solutions.

Tank charges in mountainous and broken terrain of Ladakh is a remote possibility.

What is needed is willpower to engage the enemy.

The light tank will do no good.

 

[tarunraju]

Just wondering how much would have this current LAC mobilisation would costed the govt so far ? Op Parakaram costed us close to $3Billion in 2002 .

This would have easily cost us $2 billion per month. Unlike Parakram, there aren't even 1/5th the armor involved (which drink the highest amount of fuel), just thousands of trucks. Despite good roads, it would have cost China more to move its formations forward from far off places like Kashgar, Chengdu, or even Hubei. Besides the strategic costs India inflicted to the tune of $40-50 billion by hitting their trade.

After their June 15 misadventure, they had to move even more rear formations. So I guesstimate PLA's expenditures at $15 billion so far.

 

[Babloo Singh]

Reports of some exercise in Leh..... what is interesting is reported presence of Tejas this time..

 

[mattster]

From taking 20 years to select a trainer jet, to the MMRCA deal taking forever, to finally get punched in the nose and humiliated by China again.

Now the MOD is rushing to fast-track some old Russian weapons systems.
They just didnt expect to get punched in the face by China.
How many f'king decades is it going to take for India to realize that China is not their friend.....China will forever keep undermining India at every opportunity possible, for eternity !!

I hope those 20 brave Indian soldiers died for something - they were outnumbered and outmanned and beaten to death by nail spiked clubs and no Indian, should ever forget that.

The only way to get China to respect you is to be able to punch back hard.
How does China build up such large numbers of troops at the border without detection.

Indian military always seems to be caught by surprise by the Pakis, Chinese, and the Jihadis.
Maybe its time for India to look seriously at the quality and training of its Officer Corps.
The troops on the ground level are being let down and sacrificed by incompetent Generals, Commanders and military planners.

 

[Sanglamorre]

This light tank buying news is still on the rumour stage right? Nothing official has been confirmed yet?

 

[Sehwag213]

From strategic POV do places where China are present now across LAC hold any significance?
Otherwise why would they intrude ?
Because if India significantly cuts off trade relation with them , was those land worth the money lost to CCP ?

 

[garg_bharat]

From strategic POV do places where China are present now across LAC hold any significance?
Otherwise why would they intrude ?
Because if India significantly cuts off trade relation with them , was those land worth the money lost to CCP ?

China may give precedence to strategic matters over economy. It is flawed Indian thinking that China is placated by access to our markets.

I think there is only one path left that is increasing strength of our military manifold.

 

[Sehwag213]

China may give precedence to strategic matters over economy. It is flawed Indian thinking that China is placated by access to our markets.

I think there is only one path left that is increasing strength of our military manifold.

So have they gained anything till now across LAC that gives them strategic advantage.

 

[garg_bharat]

So have they gained anything till now across LAC that gives them strategic advantage.

They want to win. They are not rushing into battle. They are watching us - what can we bring to the fight. They have not run away.

This 1-2km withdrawal/dis-engagement is meaningless. Even politician understands this fact.

I think we are steadily moving towards war.

Strategic advantage cannot be calculated now. Time will tell.

 

[tarunraju]

In other news, less than 2 weeks for the first Meteor-tipped Rafales to arrive.

 

[Sehwag213]

They want to win. They are not rushing into battle. They are watching us - what can we bring to the fight. They have not run away.

This 1-2km withdrawal/dis-engagement is meaningless. Even politician understands this fact.

I think we are steadily moving towards war.

Strategic advantage cannot be calculated now. Time will tell.

So you are saying

 

[utubekhiladi]

Buddhist monks protest in Ayodhya, demand UNESCO excavate Ram Janmabhoomi site

They demanded that the construction work of the Ram temple must be stopped immediately

Buddhist monks staged a sit-in and fast in Ayodhya on Tuesday, claiming that the Ram Janmabhoomi premises was a Buddhist site and demanded that the excavation of the place should be done by the UNESCO.

Buddhist monks protest in Ayodhya, demand UNESCO excavate Ram Janmabhoomi site

They demanded that the construction work of the Ram temple must be stopped immediately

www.thehindu.com

Clearly Chinese hand is behind this.. and they have opened a new communal front. They are hoping to ignite religious hatred between hindu and Buddhist.

So that the indian govt is forced to not provide asylum or support to dalai lama or support Buddhism or Tibet or dharmsala.

We will have to see how far this protest goes..

 

[patriots]

Dogfight. ..of. J10........... ..................

 

[patriots]

J10... dog fight .......................

 

[Sehwag213]

Buddhist monks protest in Ayodhya, demand UNESCO excavate Ram Janmabhoomi site

They demanded that the construction work of the Ram temple must be stopped immediately

Buddhist monks staged a sit-in and fast in Ayodhya on Tuesday, claiming that the Ram Janmabhoomi premises was a Buddhist site and demanded that the excavation of the place should be done by the UNESCO.

Buddhist monks protest in Ayodhya, demand UNESCO excavate Ram Janmabhoomi site

They demanded that the construction work of the Ram temple must be stopped immediately

www.thehindu.com

Clearly Chinese hand is behind this.. and they have opened a new communal front. They are hoping to ignite religious hatred between hindu and Buddhist.

So that the indian govt is forced to not provide asylum or support to dalai lama or support Buddhism or Tibet or dharmsala.

We will have to see how far this protest goes..

More like leftists are behind this. And they have chosen a wrong state for doing this type of drama. It simply won't work because SC delivered the judgment 5-0 . So review petition is not simply not possible.
Leftists understand the consequence of Ram Mandir at Ayodhya.