India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kumata

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
8,907
Likes
34,524
Country flag
Modi is standing aside as China seizes our land, says furious BJP politician from border region
This is from a member of the BJP from Ladakh, so I take it seriously. If Modi doesn't do something about this, it may take the BJP down.
The MP from ladakh is poster boy of BJP and took congress and its sister to cleaners in a famous speech during debate in Lok sabha. ... rest all doesn't matter.. there would be voices of dissent partly out of personnel agendas et all.. i could not access the article but


hope you understand the language...
 

tarunraju

Sanathan Pepe
Mod
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
9,080
Likes
40,077
Country flag
Well then US needs to change their opinion

View attachment 55973
Right, and in response the US is rumored to be sharing juicy CIA intelligence with India.

Proof: Beijing chose for the Chengdu consulate of the US to be vacated in response to the PRC Houston consulate dis-consecration, rather than the Wuhan one (or any other).
 

Kumata

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
8,907
Likes
34,524
Country flag
Right, and in response the US is rumored to be sharing juicy CIA intelligence with India.

Proof: Beijing chose for the Chengdu consulate of the US to be vacated in response to the PRC Houston consulate dis-consecration, rather than the Wuhan one (or any other).
Saar... shed some more light on bold and how it relates to juicy intelligence...
 

A chauhan

"अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l"
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
9,513
Likes
22,526
Country flag
During DeMo, Modi and GoI shilled PayTM app, which has sizeable Chinese investment.
Govt didn't have affiliations with any such app, they just asked to use online transactions and for the same purpose they started UPI payment services.
 

cereal killer

Senior Member
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,113
Likes
8,371
Country flag
What exactly has India to offer China? Unless we're going to accept status quo with a new Modi Line. Any harm to image has already been done via Galwan. Any economic measures have been taken by us. So an offer can only be reverses to our position.

Keeping Australia out of Quad will be disastrous for us, but I understand what you're saying. Who will tone it down on SCS, HK, Xinjiang? We haven't been speaking on them much in the first place. We can't control anyone else speaking on them.
Well we've kept Australia out for a long time in Malabar so I guess difference won't be much. Quad is basically our bargaining chip with US. We just gotta use them at the right times. Take benefit outta everybody that suits us. US was not happy when India became member of SCO coz that gives India another platform other than BRICS with China & Russia. I'd say that was one of Modi's biggest victories along with MTCR.
Regarding SCS you see recently MEA issued some statements about SCS that we were not used to see. So far India hasn't said anything about HK & upcoming US resolution on Xinjiang. That probably is Modi's insurance to blackmail Xi that he needs to stop.
This 3D chess is not too easy to understand.
 

johnq

Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
2,165
Likes
4,352
The MP from ladakh is poster boy of BJP and took congress and its sister to cleaners in a famous speech during debate in Lok sabha. ... rest all doesn't matter.. there would be voices of dissent partly out of personnel agendas et all.. i could not access the article but


hope you understand the language...
The person in the article is a different person.
Modi is standing aside as China seizes our land, says furious BJP politician from border region
Now Urgain Chodon, a councillor for the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in Ladakh, has told the Telegraph that China has occupied far more land than previously disclosed - and that the government has turned a blind eye.
“There is a lot of land which has been annexed by China, not only this time in the Galwan Valley but all along the LAC [Line of Actual Control],” Ms Chodon, who represents eight border villages, said.
“I have been raising my voice and even meeting with the local administration. They know about it but neither the government or the media have raised their voices about it,” she added.
She says that two years ago the Chinese army seized grazing lands her family had used for generations in the remote settlement of Koyal.
When the troops moved in, she told the Telegraph, the family was unable even to retrieve the yaks whose wool they sold to earn money.
“The shrinking of land is affecting the local people, who were actually protecting the borders by taking their herds in these areas for grazing,” said Ms Chodon.
“They were initially stopped from these areas by even the Indian Army and then over the years the Chinese have taken control over these areas.
“My father would go to Nilong, a big valley, with cattle but today there are Chinese structures and their Army.
“Our pasture lands are gone, lots of people are losing their herds. Some are selling their cattle now and moving towards the city to find some other work.”
In addition to Nilong, Ms Chodon identified Laagok Noonbo, Dumchalai and Belung as areas previously under Indian control and visited by shepherds but now annexed by China.
She said her warnings to the Army and governments were going unanswered, even though both were aware Chinese occupation had occurred as Beijing had been constructing roads and structures to the territory.
The President of the Congress Party in the city of Leh, main city in Ladakh, Tsering Namgial, confirmed to the Telegraph that land had been annexed by China.
“The Chinese have captured some key locations. It is a well-thought-out and planned strategy by them. They have captured Patrolling Point 14, an observatory post, that means it was on height and would overlook a vast area,” said Mr. Namgial.
This means that the Chinese have been stealing Indian land for the last several years even before the current crisis, and the government and army have been ignoring it.
 

HariPrasad-1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Messages
9,621
Likes
21,088
Country flag
This may be more to do with economic slowdown with current pandemic lockdown once country opens up fully i think imports from china will start going up again . Demand is less now so less imports also traders might be worried importing chinese stuff and getting stuck later if public starts boycott then they will be the loosers .

What should really matters is how much of these imports we are going to replace domestically which is when the real game starts .

Electronics import from china i am seeing no other second options for india right now who is going to replace china to fill that gap ?
It need to be bought down to half in 1920-21.
 

johnq

Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
2,165
Likes
4,352
'Our pastures have been taken': Indians rue China's Himalayan land grab
Namgyal Durbuk knows the steep mountainous terrain of Ladakh like the back of his hand. But in the 45 years he has lived here, along the Indian state’s volatile and poorly defined border with neighbouring China, he has watched Indian land disappear before his eyes.
“The Indian government is lying that there is no land capture by China,” said Durbuk, a former councillor. “Our vast green pastures, where local herders used take their cattle, have been taken over. A number of locals have been forced by this situation to sell their cattle and move towards urban settlements for their livelihood.”
To those living along the poorly demarcated Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Ladakh, a statement by Modi in the aftermath of the attack, that “China did not enter our territory” rang false. They allege Chinese incursions into Galwan and other disputed areas, such Pangong Tso, are just a continuation of the norm.
An exclusive image obtained by the Guardian of Pangong Tso, a freshwater lake on the border where a similar but non-deadly clash occurred between Indian and Chinese forces on 5 May, clearly shows substantial Chinese military structures, including a radar tower, that have been built close to a ridge known as Finger Four in just the last few weeks, despite agreements to disengage.
There are eight ridges around Pangong Tso, known as the eight fingers. Former military commanders and locals say India used to control the whole area, but Chinese troops have gradually moved in and as of two weeks ago it is understood they now control four of the eight fingers. China is said to be building a helipad and other infrastructure around Finger Four, as well as bringing more troops into the territory.
“The villagers are scared by the presence of the Chinese forces. They are so close they can even see their lights in the night for the first time,” said Durbuk, who recently visited the area and fears India will lose entire the Ladakh region in the coming 20 years if the Chinese annexation continues.
Taking out a notebook, Durbuk drew a map to demonstrate the Indian territory lost in Galwan. He pointed out a water handpump installed in 2010 by local authorities for herders, who used to bring their cattle and flocks of Cashmere wool-producing Changra goats to graze on high-altitude pastures near the border.
But these herders have been driven away and their water pump is now accompanied by Chinese military infrastructure. “The area is under Chinese army control and they have constructed roads and built structures there,” said Durbuk.
Sonam Wangchuk, a celebrated Ladakh-based engineer leading a boycott against China, made a similar observation. “As residents we have seen over years how China have been pushing the line, metre by metre. It’s been the cause of huge economic losses. Thousands of local goat herders have lost their pastures, and therefore their income because of it, and have been forced to become menial labourers in the city.”
In February, a group of local councillors gave a written memorandum to Modi, warning him about the capture of vast pasture lands by China.
“We have been raising the issue of Chinese advancement with the government and army for years. The Chinese have been taking over huge patches of land every year,” said Tashi Namgyal, 30, a councillor for the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) representing Shyok area, the closest habitation to Galwan valley.
Another BJP councillor, Urgain Chodon, 30, whose village Koyal is situated along the LAC, alleged China has not only been annexing Indian territory but actively building infrastructure. “The Chinese come with their machinery – dumpers, earth movers – and construct roads and then claim later that it is their territory. When the herders would go to the places they were visiting every year, they would find Chinese occupying these areas,” she said.
Indian and Chinese military and diplomatic channels have publicly agreed to continue a policy of disengagement but recent satellite images appear to show a continued build up of Chinese structures on a terrace overlooking the Galwan river, on the the side of the border claimed by India as their territory. India has now deployed missile firing tanks and anti-tank missile systems along the entire 992-mile (1,596km) long border after China brought in armoured vehicles.
Tashi Chhepal, 60, a retired Indian army captain, affirmed that when he was a young officer, Galwan Valley was considered Indian territory and there were no Chinese posts even close to it.
“There were no roads at that time and we would trek for three weeks on horses from Pratappur Nubra north-east to Chumgtas. On the way, we would rest in the Galwan Valley,” said Chhepal. But with Chinese troops at patrolling point 14 in Galwan Valley, he said such a journey would be unthinkable now.
 

LDev

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Messages
410
Likes
1,577
Country flag
lot of negativity on this thread regarding the 101 defense product ban. :frusty:

Journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step. INDIA has now taken that first step to become self reliant in defense sector. this is a very good decision of our current majority government and this calls for celebration. we have developed all kinds of weapons at home, from radars to jets, from sonars to missiles, from tanks to submarines, from warships to biggest cannons. i sincerely believe that after this move, all of our home made weapon will obtain maturity and will revolutionize local industries.

instead of wet dreaming about western weapons, we now should make our own home made weapons equally capable.

all the problems that been listed out by the members will eventuality be resolved. at-least give couple of years to this concept and lets reserve our negativity and bad mouthing till then.
The real problem is not imports. The real problem is the dismal state of the DPSUs in India. An outright ban is a regressive steps like the pre liberalization days in India when Premier Padmini and Bajaj Chetak ruled the roost and could not care less to improve the quality of their product for decades. Instead of a ban, what should happen is to strive for a balance in defense trade i.e. you import say $10 billion in a year, the goal should be to have a defense production capability to export $10 billion per year of other defense products. This way you build relationships with potential allies of the future. This cannot happen without IMO a wholesale pruning/closure of the DPSUs and having private sector players like L&T and the Kalyani Group get big orders from MOD. Baba Kalayani has already said that his dream is to be able to build a jet engine for the IAF and he is confident that with his company's deep expertise in metallurgy he will be able to do it as part of a consortium. That IMO is the way forward, not some knee jerk ban which is not practical.
 

Varun2002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Messages
174
Likes
475
Country flag
Only a Prince Siddhartha was born in Nepal. The Prince attained enlightenment in India and became Gautam Buddha. So Buddha was certainly born in India.
The place where Buddha/prince Siddartha was reputedly born( many still contend it was in the Indian town of Kapilavastu) is very close to the Indian border. But the enlightenment, first sermon, first disciples, major activity, and his passing away( in the town of Kushinagara) were all in what is now India.
 

Suryavanshi

Cheeni KLPDhokebaaz
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
16,330
Likes
70,174
The real problem is not imports. The real problem is the dismal state of the DPSUs in India. An outright ban is a regressive steps like the pre liberalization days in India when Premier Padmini and Bajaj Chetak ruled the roost and could not care less to improve the quality of their product for decades. Instead of a ban, what should happen is to strive for a balance in defense trade i.e. you import say $10 billion in a year, the goal should be to have a defense production capability to export $10 billion per year of other defense products. This way you build relationships with potential allies of the future. This cannot happen without IMO a wholesale pruning/closure of the DPSUs and having private sector players like L&T and the Kalyani Group get big orders from MOD. Baba Kalayani has already said that his dream is to be able to build a jet engine for the IAF and he is confident that with his company's deep expertise in metallurgy he will be able to do it as part of a consortium. That IMO is the way forward, not some knee jerk ban which is not practical.
Need to fix Bureaucracy. There are Startup's that can do well in defences we need such companies that are willing to R&D and not just copy paste stuff.

Make our system like that of Israel. Israeli bureaucrats scout for companies and offer them cheap loans to set up business.
 

Shashank Nayak

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
5,153
Likes
17,261
Country flag
Last time i heard, there were 12 t-90s which were moved to DS DBO. Has any further armour being moved to DSDBO after that..?
 

Sanglamorre

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
5,732
Likes
26,335
Country flag
Better he should be speechwriter of Sonia - Rahul...
It would still be better than what they're spewing now. Xd

Just imagine, Modi daring to cut a deal and my speech dripping out of Raul Baba's lips: Modiji will now import even the metal for our dead soldiers medals!

You know what, scratch that. Raul can't even say his name convincingly. I'd offer my services to Priyanka instead.


That said, I have more such phrases stocked up in case there's no military action. Will take them out after August end, one by one. Xd
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
I do actually write novels when I can find the time, had lots of readers too :p

But, while this is an exaggeration, it's not without basis. The biggest, and only harm to China by India has been dealt on economy front. They will want to reverse that.

After the Malappuram-Wuham meets, Chinese investment in India increased.

During DeMo, Modi and GoI shilled PayTM app, which has sizeable Chinese investment.


But my main point is, no matter what the deal is being cut, it will include reverses on economic measures, and a deal, any deal with the Chinese is dishonouring the dead; of Galwan, and Corona. That is inexcusable.
You engage in speculation and then draw conclusion based on your own speculation.
GOI (as per statements of EAM) is clear no business as usual until soldiers go back to barracks.
 

Blue Water Navy

Zeroed
New Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
1,849
Likes
9,392
Country flag
Need to fix Bureaucracy. There are Startup's that can do well in defences we need such companies that are willing to R&D and not just copy paste stuff.

Make our system like that of Israel. Israeli bureaucrats scout for companies and offer them cheap loans to set up business.
We have much to learn from Israel.

For us to survive against our padosis we have much to learn indeed. In all fields and ways. :fyeah:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top