India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Bhadra]

This is the Google LAC ... (No authenticity)

 

[Sanglamorre]

Bufffer is NOT an answer to our problems. The answer is a strong defence posture by increasing availability of defence manpower (through draft), increasing domestic production of arms and ammunition, and a Presidential form of government.

A settled border is the best border. Deployment of IA at Ladakh region like today isn't feasible long-term. If we fight against China and gain Aksai Hind, they won't settle borders, and we can't trust them. A border with independent Tibet govt will be far better.

 

[HawkisRight]

This is the Google LAC ... (No authenticity)

View attachment 55376

So where are d chinese now? Our side or their side of line and if chinks are on Indian side of Lac then why no one is publishing those Sat images

 

[LDev]

China hits Indian civilian targets in Cities with missiles, and India won't target its commercial shipping... ? Come on.. The only consideration America will get is that US flagged vessels won't be targeted.. Any commercial ship with lots of chinese on it.. is a fair target..

I don't think that China will specifically target Indian cities, at least at the beginning and not unless the war begins to go against it e.g. if India achieves a breakthrough and reaches the G219 highway. Rather the SRBMs will be used in large numbers to target IA formations, IAF airfields and supply depots. To the extent that any of these military targets is adjacent to civilian population areas, there will be collateral damage. So the IA and IAF has to be prepared for concentrated missile strikes e.g. in the Depsang areas where the IA armored formations are and in IAF airfields, because that will be the PLA's opening gambit to degrade IA and IAF capabilities

 

[LDev]

Yup, what you are saying is dovetailing into what I am saying.

could be that, GoI probably thinks the possible set of consequences are not worth the risk at the moment. we don’t know.

Then again, this game will last atleast a decade, this is just the beginning. it’s not just about India-China, it’s largely about China & many countries.

India's response so far has been economic. And that is consistent with GOI understanding of the tacit agreement reached with China both by the present and the prior Governments. That understanding as indicated by Nirpuma Rao was that in return for China and it's companies having an open door in India's economic sphere and growth, the border issue will remain dormant and neither side will do anything unilaterally at the border. So now that China has unilaterally broken that tacit understanding, India's response is the explicit withdrawal of the welcome mat for Chinese companies in India, that was India's quid pro quo for China maintaining peace on the border. So the steps taken so far i.e. the 59 apps ban etc. the 25% import duty on pharmaceutical APIs, the licensing procedure on all Chinese investments etc. are all in the economic arena.

IMO, it will be a very big step for GOI at this stage to step up from economic retaliation to military retaliation.

 

[Alfalfa]

There would be payback. Xi has personally backstabbed Modi. There would be action. If you feel there would be no action, then you don't know Modi.

@Sanglamorre
Amit shah had warned Ahmed Patel that if they form govt in Maharashtra, then they will lose their government in MP, Rajasthan. And this is exactly what is happening. Can you please stop crying.

Haan and you know him so well right? What is the basis of this bizarre fandom, I'd like to clarify that opinions aren't facts

 

[daya]

Either you are preparing for war or already decided your fate and stretching it out hoping public will forget it. Pick one option

Yes... Definitely. Had we prepared for war with China, this incursion would not have taken place.

 

[Cheran]

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[ezsasa]

India's response so far has been economic. And that is consistent with GOI understanding of the tacit agreement reached with China both by the present and the prior Governments. That understanding as indicated by Nirpuma Rao was that in return for China and it's companies having an open door in India's economic sphere and growth, the border issue will remain dormant and neither side will do anything unilaterally at the border. So now that China has unilaterally broken that tacit understanding, India's response is the explicit withdrawal of the welcome mat for Chinese companies in India, that was India's quid pro quo for China maintaining peace on the border. So the steps taken so far i.e. the 59 apps ban etc. the 25% import duty on pharmaceutical APIs, the licensing procedure on all Chinese investments etc. are all in the economic arena.

IMO, it will be a very big step for GOI at this stage to step up from economic retaliation to military retaliation.

And military retaliation need not happen today or tomorrow, it can happen after it is conveyed to the public that all non-military options have been exhausted.

Otherwise it would be like a cricket match, if Indian team wins, few people think that the win is because they sat in their lucky chair while watching the match , if the team loose it’s the fault of everybody else top to bottom The BCCI, the selectors, the captain, the batting, the bowling, the ground staff, the umpire. Everybody is at fault except the guy who sat in the same lucky chair.

 

[ezsasa]

Low Altitude, Lightweight, Surface-launched, Anti Light Armour, Active-guided Missile. The Chinese will be taken by complete surprise as we give them copious dose of our LAL SALAAM.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

With CPEC in mind, China wants Pakistan to pitch Baloch outfit as terror group in UN

Islamabad does not want to move UNSC 1267 committee on getting BLA declared as global terrorist organisation as it feels that this will internationalise Balochistan’s separatist movement.

www.hindustantimes.com

With CPEC in mind, China wants Pakistan to pitch Baloch outfit as terror group in UN

 

[Cheran]

India strengthens troop presence in northern Ladakh, does heavy tank deployment to tackle Chinese threat

One of the major intentions of the Chinese in this area has been to build a road from its TWD battalion headquarters opposite the DBO sector to the Karakoram pass area and connect the battalion there.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

In response to China's deployment of more than 17,000 troops and armoured vehicles opposite Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) and Depsang plains in Ladakh, India has made heavy deployment of troops and tank regiments

The deployments have been made from the Patrolling Point 1 near the Karakoram Pass (PP-3) to the Depsang plains where the Chinese have amassed more than 17,000 troops since April-May time frame and have been blocking Indian patrols from PP-10 to PP-13, sources said.

One of the major intentions of the Chinese in this area has been to build a road from its TWD battalion headquarters opposite the DBO sector to the Karakoram pass area and connect the battalion there.

 

[Synergy]

That's a real possibility. But I haven't (yet) seen imaging confirming where the Chinese are at Depsang/what they're doing. And I've grown skeptical of some of the anonymous source reporting. Images we do have in Ladakh (outside Pangong) show the Chinese on their side of the LAC.


View attachment 55367

So thats a great map & @SimTack
both plotted the same camp in our report as well (3rd image shaded red circle) but when you try to scale it to a GIS/MAP you notice the lines very far apart, different interpretations, officially if you have a map, happy to see the LAC there

View attachment 55368

View attachment 55369

I was reading that article.

somebody please elaborate, Sandeep Mukherjee's conclusion "Or should we risk a bloodbath, which may lead to a repeat of 1962?"

my point is, afaik, fate of 1962 could have been different if we could avoid blunders. this is not 1962. we are we equipped (though not on a par with China), well trained, well motivated, well postured/deployed, well allied etc. so what's the chance of a repeat of 1962?

I think, probably it's a beautiful article damned by dhoti shivering conclusion of the writer (Sandeep).

 

[Synergy]

With CPEC in mind, China wants Pakistan to pitch Baloch outfit as terror group in UN

Islamabad does not want to move UNSC 1267 committee on getting BLA declared as global terrorist organisation as it feels that this will internationalise Balochistan’s separatist movement.

www.hindustantimes.com

With CPEC in mind, China wants Pakistan to pitch Baloch outfit as terror group in UN

hoping they will move it to UN.

 

[mist_consecutive]

It seems that we had a high operational alert (most probably orange) aftermath Galwan incident. We were prepared with an operational readiness platform(ORP) at all forward air bases bordering both Pakistan and China.

Maybe we were expecting escalation, or were ready for escalation?

Su-30MKI ready with missiles loaded at the hardened aircraft shelter of Naliya forward airbase, Gujarat. This is the same airbase from which SPYDER SAM shot down PN scan eagle UAV last year during Balakot strikes.
Imagery date - 16th June

Maybe the most interesting image is this, an An-32 lying at Bhuj AFS with half of its left-wing missing. Since Bhuj AFS does not have base/repair depot of An-32, this makes me think this might have been stuck by a missile/MANPAD.
Imagery date - 16th June

2x Su-30MKIs ready at HAS of Jaiselmer forward airbase, Rajasthan.
Imagery date - 16th June

3x (more hidden maybe) Mig-21Bison ready at Nal forward airbase, Rajasthan.
Imagery date - 24th June

Maybe the most prepared airbase is the Srinagar air force station, J&K.

3x Su-30MKI detachment. Not ORPs. More than 4 Mig-21Bison are ORP at Srinagar. But most interesting tidbit is, Srinagar AFB seems to be on high readiness and hidden the HAS, radars, and SAMs (try to find it! ) under camouflage nets.
It is good to see our armed forces are finally paying attention to digital camouflage.
Date - 30th June

Finally, Leh, you can see Heron UAV taking off from runaway. Above it is a Chinook.

AH-64 Apache at Leh.

Imagery date - 28th June

Sources of all image - Google Earth.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

If India was actually preparing to escalate then we would have been stocking up on some urgent infantry weapons or Air Launched PGMs. Almost the only nation with Big War Reserves who will/can sell to us is USA.

This info would have to be disclosed to US Congress & would have also leaked to press

Absence of News of any major immediate emergency weapon purchases like ATGMs, RPGs etc makes me feel that we have given up.

We may not even be contemplating serious Economic action let alone Military action

 

[Sehwag213]

It seems that we had a high operational alert (most probably orange) aftermath Galwan incident. We were prepared with an operational readiness platform(ORP) at all forward air bases bordering both Pakistan and China.

Maybe we were expecting escalation, or were ready for escalation?

View attachment 55388
Su-30MKI ready with missiles loaded at the hardened aircraft shelter of Naliya forward airbase, Gujarat. This is the same airbase from which SPYDER SAM shot down PN scan eagle UAV last year during Balakot strikes.
Imagery date - 16th June

View attachment 55391
Maybe the most interesting image is this, an An-32 lying at Bhuj AFS with half of its left-wing missing. Since Bhuj AFS does not have base/repair depot of An-32, this makes me think this might have been stuck by a missile/MANPAD.
Imagery date - 16th June

View attachment 55392
2x Su-30MKIs ready at HAS of Jaiselmer forward airbase, Rajasthan.
Imagery date - 16th June

View attachment 55393
3x (more hidden maybe) Mig-21Bison ready at Nal forward airbase, Rajasthan.
Imagery date - 24th June

Maybe the most prepared airbase is the Srinagar air force station, J&K.
View attachment 55395
3x Su-30MKI detachment. Not ORPs. More than 4 Mig-21Bison are ORP at Srinagar. But most interesting tidbit is, Srinagar AFB seems to be on high readiness and hidden the HAS, radars, and SAMs (try to find it! ) under camouflage nets.
It is good to see our armed forces are finally paying attention to digital camouflage.
Date - 30th June

View attachment 55396
Finally, Leh, you can see Heron UAV taking off from runaway. Above it is a Chinook.

View attachment 55397
AH-64 Apache at Leh.

Imagery date - 28th June

Sources of all image - Google Earth.

So , Babaji wasn't wrong when he said We are at Orange alert after Galwan
Entire DFI community owes apologies to Babaji

 

[Synergy]

If India was actually preparing to escalate then we would have been stocking up on some urgent infantry weapons or Air Launched PGMs. Almost the only nation with Big War Reserves who will/can sell to us is USA.

This info would have to be disclosed to US Congress & would have also leaked to press

Absence of News of any major immediate emergency weapon purchases like ATGMs, RPGs etc makes me feel that we have given up.

We may not even be contemplating serious Economic action let alone Military action

we are not getting news, does it imply nothing is being done?
there were some news regarding workers of OFB etc were working 16hrs at a stretch. for what?

absence of news means we have given up?

 

[ashdoc]

If India was actually preparing to escalate then we would have been stocking up on some urgent infantry weapons or Air Launched PGMs. Almost the only nation with Big War Reserves who will/can sell to us is USA.

This info would have to be disclosed to US Congress & would have also leaked to press

Absence of News of any major immediate emergency weapon purchases like ATGMs, RPGs etc makes me feel that we have given up.

We may not even be contemplating serious Economic action let alone Military action

What about the reports of emergency purchases of spike anti tank missiles from Israel and hammer PGMs from France ?