India-China 2020 Border conflict

[SavageKing456]

Why we shouldn't trust the ruskies.

 

[Kumata]

India is in very difficult situation bcoz China is on our door, under Biden us-india relations will not improve,russia is getting close to Pakistan
There many sources that if we buy f18 then Pakistan will have mig35
I don't think russia will go too close to pak as still our 70% weapons are getting imported from russia
Pls write your opinions

Well this just came in time i guess...

Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet Successfully Completes Ski Jump, Pitches for Indian Navy Aircraft Carriers

While one can say that ruskies will counter that with MIG 35 to porkis... questions remains if porkis can afford the price tag unless they really want to eat grass alongside their donkeys ...

I too Believe that this continuous selling by boeing is a bit of surprise... But i won't trust uncle sam in long term... so that leave us with French.....interesting times...

or

may be ruskies think that we will develop a naval variant of tejas ....

 

[LETHALFORCE]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/worl...india-russian-envoy/ar-BB1c6vJ3?ocid=msedgntp

Ruskies saying openly if we go quad way, pakistan is on table !!!

IMO this is a clear cut sign of us joining hands with QUAD and ruskies realising that their golden hen is slowly going away from them.... More so since we have increased weapon acquisition from Uncle sam and ruskies have lost quite a bit if business. Other hand this might be a indication of post putin era .. So ruskies joining chandaal chaukdi is a bad sign for us sandwitched in between 2 prime rogue nations

is it really a big loss?? most russians weapons have reached their potential and india has other suppliers.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

A military that sabotages its own defense industry has no future. The Indian army should be renamed to Import Army. Considering the limited budget and support from the Indian military the DRDO has done a wonderful job, India needs someone similar to the late Manohar Parrikar to push Indigenous weapon systems.

indian government has worked hard to keep india as a buyer of weapons and dependant on others.
Any indigenous development is always discouraged and put on a shelf.

 

[Kumata]

is it really a big loss?? most russians weapons have reached their potential and india has other suppliers.

I think we still gave lots of money to ruskies ... so in a ideal world... it's more of a loss to them than us. we have other places to buy better weapons ...

Or

May be ruskies are just throwing a googly to judge how india reacts.... Should they choose to go china way.. for sure they will get step brotherly treatment and that might not be a favourable position for once mighty russians who took on capitalists..US of A

More over, the general public opinion in russia could go against chinese.... they do a history of fighting the chinese bat munchers....

 

[Knowitall]

is it really a big loss?? most russians weapons have reached their potential and india has other suppliers.

It is a big loss as we will might face trouble in the coming decade.

S-400 t-90 spares for sukhoi russian nuclear tech etc etc can cause problems.

Govt needs to indigenize fast.

Why t-90 and s-400 are yet to come we must cancel these

 

[Kumata]

It is a big loss as we will might face trouble in the coming decade.

S-400 t-90 spares for sukhoi russian nuclear tech etc etc can cause problems.

Govt needs to indigenize fast.

Why t-90 and s-400 are yet to come we must cancel these

quite possible that russians are just checking our response to take a call...they knows porkis can give them zilch in term of business and chinese are worse via way of their copy cats...

I guess they tested water earlier as well with such statements

or cud be that we are on the way to announce a major deal with Uncle sam and ruskies are are trying sabotage that....

As for spares goes, they can do zilch about it as we have paid them and they are contractually bound to honor that...

 

[Rubian45]

India is in very difficult situation bcoz China is on our door, under Biden us-india relations will not improve,russia is getting close to Pakistan

Russian subservience to china is one of the main reason India moving towards the west. Its amazing how delusional Russia has become, Russia is making alliances with nations hostile to India (China, Turkey, Pakistan) because it benefits Russia and when India does the same, Russia starts whining like a little b*tch , It's completely unreasonable for Russia to expect India to compromise its national interest for Russia's sake.

There many sources that if we buy f18 then Pakistan will have mig35
I don't think russia will go too close to pak as still our 70% weapons are getting imported from Russia
Pls write your opinions

Pakistan is in no position to afford the mig35. And besides Russia is not doing any charity to India, India pays good money for Russian weapons, Pakistan's defence market and economy is minuscule when compared to India, losing the Indian defense market will be a huge loss for Russia.

France, Israel, Sweden, USA etc will gladly take Russia place in India defence market.

Its time to re-evaluate Russia-India relationship, No nation has friends only interests. India's relationship with Russia is becoming more of a liability than an asset.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

It is a big loss as we will might face trouble in the coming decade.

S-400 t-90 spares for sukhoi russian nuclear tech etc etc can cause problems.

Govt needs to indigenize fast.

Why t-90 and s-400 are yet to come we must cancel these

very sad position to be in, imo we will never receive s-400.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I think we still gave lots of money to ruskies ... so in a ideal world... it's more of a loss to them than us. we have other places to buy better weapons ...

Or

May be ruskies are just throwing a googly to judge how india reacts.... Should they choose to go china way.. for sure they will get step brotherly treatment and that might not be a favourable position for once mighty russians who took on capitalists..US of A

More over, the general public opinion in russia could go against chinese.... they do a history of fighting the chinese bat munchers....

They have clearly chosen Chinese side don't know what more proof is needed??

 

[SavageKing456]

very sad position to be in, imo we will never receive s-400.

Govt. should cancel s400 cause we would have similar system by the same timeline.
XRSAM!!!!!

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Well this just came in time i guess...

Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet Successfully Completes Ski Jump, Pitches for Indian Navy Aircraft Carriers

While one can say that ruskies will counter that with MIG 35 to porkis... questions remains if porkis can afford the price tag unless they really want to eat grass alongside their donkeys ...

I too Believe that this continuous selling by boeing is a bit of surprise... But i won't trust uncle sam in long term... so that leave us with French.....interesting times...

or

may be ruskies think that we will develop a naval variant of tejas ....

as long as imported maal replaces things that were going to be imported maal anyway this is no issue as long as logistics,technical superiority and fast and cheap production are maintained.

what we must make sure in this decade is that a lot of whole categories itself should be dominated by indeginous systems and then should only be replaced by our own systems starting aa virtous trend.

we must also wrest control of visible and large whole systems like artillery,light aircraft,helicopters slowly and surely away from import tendency.

 

[vishnugupt]

I can't understand why people here criticize Russia and advocate to increase strategic relationships with the West. Either people don't know History or diplomacy or perhaps both.
My opinion always if anyone who is worthy of friendship in this hostile ever-changing World is Russia, if not Russia then no-one.

 

[Kumata]

They have clearly chosen Chinese side don't know what more proof is needed??

To be fair to ruskies, they did not had a choice either..... they cannot be lone wolf in the pack looking for a herd to tag along... more so when u can only survive by being part of herd only ...

Some where in deep conscience, I am sure ruskies will be cursing themselves from being masters to the slave to themselves being slaves of their slaves... what a transformation it will be for them !!!!!!!!!!

From india's POV, IMO we will continue to get what ever we wanted from them... their defense industry depends on us a lot if not 100 % . My Only worry is that chinese will cover them in their debt trap and than swallow them fully one fine day.....

 

[Kumata]

I can't understand why people here criticize Russia and advocate to increase strategic relationships with the West. Either people don't know History or diplomacy or perhaps both.
My opinion always if anyone who is worthy of friendship in this hostile ever-changing World is Russia, if not Russia then no-one.

Nobody is criticizing them.. we are just discussing the way they are headed.... By supporting china , clearly they have put a knot in the relations...we never crossed that line... infact current situation can be attributed to ruskies as they gave us wrong intelligence of chinese troops just doing exercise ....

Rest last part, it was different in 70's & 80 's i am sure you will agree that we have paid back the debt in triple measure .... I believe there are no friends in bigger world forum in post 2000 world.. it's all about u scratch my back and vice versa.. sad but true!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Suhaldev]

Through the agreement signed today in the framework of the debt relief scheme by #ParisClub & #G20 lender countries, France, 4th creditor of Pakistan, suspends its bilateral government loan repayments worth 189,7 millions USD.
@ForeignOfficePk



Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Nong Rong today called on Pakistani Army Chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa. Chinese envoy, "appreciated Pakistan’s role for peace and stability in the region", an ISPR release said.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Our Fall out with the Ruskies was destined to happen it was not a matte of if but when?
Not having any direct border or sea link with Russia is the main reason, there was a geographical constraint. China is a direct land and sea neighbor they have gas and oil pipeline as well as exchange of trading goods other than weapons. We had just weapon trade to keep them hooked, with our indigenization drive and improving relation with the west weapon import were bound to go down.

Now a moment for the UNSC situation
China- Completely against us.
USA- Under Biden shouldn't be any good but lets see what the US deep state wants.
Britain- No need to explain general butthurt against us, they will not like to see us rise and will do as USA wants.
Russia- No good as the weapon import continue to drop.
France- The most favorable to us but the west is west cant be trusted.

The solution as always is going indigenous and what needs to be done is discussed to death already.
The world is split up between Murica-Europe block and China-Russia block we should Try to become a Third block of our own to give option to smaller countries that aren't doing to well under pre existing blocks.

For smaller countries to gravitate towards us there is multi dimensional requirement that need to be fulfilled.
It should start with building good relation with our immediate neighbors like Nepal, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Bhutan, African nations etc.

We already are a Nuclear power just need to perfect other parameters to qualify as a Block

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Govt. should cancel s400 cause we would have similar system by the same timeline.
XRSAM!!!!!

I had said PAK-FA will never come to India and I am almost sure S-400 will be the same . Smerches, KLUB'S etc...were also another where same thing happened . Most deals with Russians are major flops.

 

[vishnugupt]

Nobody is criticizing them.. we are just discussing the way they are headed.... By supporting china , clearly they have put a knot in the relations...we never crossed that line... infact current situation can be attributed to ruskies as they gave us wrong intelligence of chinese troops just doing exercise ....

Rest last part, it was different in 70's & 80 's i am sure you will agree that we have paid back the debt in triple measure .... I believe there are no friends in bigger world forum in post 2000 world.. it's all about u scratch my back and vice versa.. sad but true!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got your point. but blaming Russia for the Indo-China standoff is wrong and counter productive. Many here ( Not you ) advocating we should not import or cancel orders from Russia. Let me give a view of how friendship with Russia is far better than any west country ( Here I am not opposing friendship with the west ).

1) Nehru Panchseal's principle had paid us badly during the 1962 War so we had to have come in one of the superpowers fold So we had two choices either Soviets or USA. Though USA was very against of China even one occasion USA to go Nuke China if they fight with India again. USA was lenient towards Pakistan so India chose to go Soviet block as Russo-China relations were deteriorating ( Nikita Krushchov blamed Mao during a meeting by supporting Nehru on 1962 war ). Soviets Also offered lots of weapons and technologies.

2) It was the Soviets who helped India to break Pakistan into two otherwise this war would have been just the opposite. Soviet literally threatened the USA with nuclear war if the 7th fleet attacks India.

3) Russia traditionally helps its alley with money, Arms, and technology but the same is not true with the West. Americans abandoned Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Georgia, Ukraine, Pakistan, and many more during testing time meanwhile Soviets had even managed Cuba at the door of the USA. So reliability is a big issue when you make strategic partnerships ( Remeber Henery Kissinger famous quote ).

4) Being a permanent member of the UN Russia has also supported on international forums while for the West it is a tool of blackmailing

5) Read the statements of our past and present PM/Presidents these statements are not jokes. When CAATSA passed by US congress Modi went to Russia immediately the next morning to talk with Putin. Russia doesn't have such laws to blackmail its allies.

6) at the present time Russia is facing lots of sanctions from western countries They don't have many options so they keep China at their side but practically Russia don't want a powerful China to compare to India but still, they are managing the balance. Had it been a western country they would have been started giving lectures to us by now.

 

[pinakaTHEbow]

I got your point. but blaming Russia for the Indo-China standoff is wrong and counter productive. Many here ( Not you ) advocating we should not import or cancel orders from Russia. Let me give a view of how friendship with Russia is far better than any west country ( Here I am not opposing friendship with the west ).

1) Nehru Panchseal's principle had paid us badly during the 1962 War so we had to have come in one of the superpowers fold So we had two choices either Soviets or USA. Though USA was very against of China even one occasion USA to go Nuke China if they fight with India again. USA was lenient towards Pakistan so India chose to go Soviet block as Russo-China relations were deteriorating ( Nikita Krushchov blamed Mao during a meeting by supporting Nehru on 1962 war ). Soviets Also offered lots of weapons and technologies.

2) It was the Soviets who helped India to break Pakistan into two otherwise this war would have been just the opposite. Soviet literally threatened the USA with nuclear war if the 7th fleet attacks India.

3) Russia traditionally helps its alley with money, Arms, and technology but the same is not true with the West. Americans abandoned Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Georgia, Ukraine, Pakistan, and many more during testing time meanwhile Soviets had even managed Cuba at the door of the USA. So reliability is a big issue when you make strategic partnerships ( Remeber Henery Kissinger famous quote ).

4) Being a permanent member of the UN Russia has also supported on international forums while for the West it is a tool of blackmailing

5) Read the statements of our past and present PM/Presidents these statements are not jokes. When CAATSA passed by US congress Modi went to Russia immediately the next morning to talk with Putin. Russia doesn't have such laws to blackmail its allies.

6) at the present time Russia is facing lots of sanctions from western countries They don't have many options so they keep China at their side but practically Russia don't want a powerful China to compare to India but still, they are managing the balance. Had it been a western country they would have been started giving lectures to us by now.

Each of your points has lots of inaccuracies.
I will write a post, with references, addressing each of your points.