India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Flying Dagger]

Agree on the french volumes but they make good quality. No migs unless its life or death or Russians offer engine tech not just license, even VKS is not buying them....no gripen either, comes with mostly American components. Getting F-16's may be better tactically and politically as Trump wants to decrease deficit and they are good planes and plenty around the world.

Not now brother I am referring to 2008-2015 timeline now we have to opt for atleast couple more Rafale Sqd we have already paid over 2 bn dollar for its modification and then focus on Tejas.

Gripen was always ahead in comparison to Tejas or F-16 its just we knew once it is in Tejas will be dead unless tedbf/orca type offer comes in.

 

[another_armchair]

No point in opting for their Mirage it will take another 50 mn to upgrade. Qatar and UAE have the best with plenty of frame life left. If they can sell it for 20 mn + with spare parts stock they have it's nice deal.

But UAE may not be interested plus if they are really going to opt for Astra we can make money from it and spend on Tejas.

If we get it dirt cheap from Taiwan, why not. They are not much older than ours.

UAE is not willing to part with their M2K's for some strange reason.

Instead, they are ready to sell some of their F-16's to Greece.

 

[LDev]

The Chinese flood the Indian Northeast and other states every year by releasing dam water.
Also the Brahmos air-launched version has a range of 500 km.

And how far away is the Three Gorges dam from the closest Indian border?

 

[Flying Dagger]

If we get it dirt cheap from Taiwan, why not. They are not much older than ours.

UAE is not willing to part with theirs M2K's for some strange reason.

Instead, they are ready to sell some of their F-16's to Greece.

Not strange but they want a Non USA platform reason is obvious.

Taiwan Mirage airframe have suffered damage due to the climate and maintenance issue.

The reason they are parting with it is French quoted 45-50 mn for its upgrade like IAF standards.

If we had that much money we would have bought new planes instead.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Not now brother I am referring to 2008-2015 timeline now we have to opt for atleast couple more Rafale Sqd we have already paid over 2 bn dollar for its modification and then focus on Tejas.

Gripen was always ahead in comparison to Tejas or F-16 its just we knew once it is in Tejas will be dead unless tedbf/orca type offer comes in.

Ya, I am with you....just getting the Rafale's and investing in Tejas would be the ideal for us. Should stay away from Sweedes even if they offer better stuff sometimes.....does not buy us any political favors from big boys like US/Russia/France/UK e.t.c and these countries generally offer almost equal or better stuff as alternatives.

 

[shade]

Ya, I am with you....just getting the Rafale's and investing in Tejas would be the ideal for us. Should stay away from Sweedes even if they offer better stuff sometimes.....does not buy us any political favors from big boys like US/Russia/France/UK e.t.c and these countries generally offer almost equal or better stuff as alternatives.

Grippen depends on US technology for things like the engine.
Sweden is also a cuckold country that will block supply of spares for us for some arbitrary muh human rights bs.
US, Russia, France are the only options, UK threw their lot in with the other euro-chus, resulting in the Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

None of them is selling. UAE has signed upgrades for the fleet and are looking at buying Astra missiles for the M2K fleet. Taiwan cannot sell in the midst of standoff with China. They need the birds. Rest are all reports.

France has a number of Mirage 2ks in storage..

 

[Flying Dagger]

Ya, I am with you....just getting the Rafale's and investing in Tejas would be the ideal for us. Should stay away from Sweedes even if they offer better stuff sometimes.....does not buy us any political favors from big boys like US/Russia/France/UK e.t.c and these countries generally offer almost equal or better stuff as alternatives.

Actually during 2008 we could have bought shares in SAAB and get better deal.

The favor from big boys is nil in anycase. USA is more than happy if we severe ties from russia and buy less equipment from them that is their long-term strategy to dry source of investment in Russian defence. And India is the biggest source for them.

Saab would have provided much better TOT deal than namesake French TOT or American ( No TOT ) . They would have aided in designing twin engine variant too.

 

[another_armchair]

France has a number of Mirage 2ks in storage..

Approaching the French is the same as approaching an extortionist.
Just give them a blank cheque and pray they are not short on pasta supplies.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Grippen depends on US technology for things like the engine.
Sweden is also a cuckold country that will block supply of spares for us for some arbitrary muh human rights bs.
US, Russia, France are the only options, UK threw their lot in with the other euro-chus, resulting in the Eurofighter Typhoon.

If we had a manufacturing facility here then how will they block the spare supply ? We can make spares for Sukhoi too it's just we signed a stupid deal.

And if they will block it so will other european countries except French who will delay it as long as they can but eventually they will to.

Leave it if we drag it there is no point since Rafale is already in. Let's just see how they plan onwards Tejas is the ultimate hope.

 

[LDev]

AMCA is a meme, by the time it's ready everyone else will have 7th gen Skynet powered fighters that shoot lasers .
Ek Tejas ka order sign karne me khujli hoti hai aur chale AMCA banane.
The import lobby needs to be purged, and so do the incompetents kamchors in DRDO and HAL.
The back and forth between these two groups means that our procurements take forever.

Lockheed Martin is already testing a pod which fires laser for self defence on F-16s. They expect to mount these self defense pods on fighters by 2024-2025. These pods will be specially useful for non stealthy 4th Gen fighters to self defend against enemy SAMs and AAMs. My concern is that the AMCA if/when it flies will already be obsolete. Ditto the LCA.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Lockheed Martin is already testing a pod which fires laser for self defence on F-16s. They expect to mount these self defense pods on fighters by 2024-2025. These pods will be specially useful for non stealthy 4th Gen fighters to self defend against enemy SAMs and AAMs. My concern is that the AMCA if/when it flies will already be obsolete. Ditto the LCA.

LCA is already obsolete if we are going to consider Modern airforces like USA or European countries.

But our concern is Pakistan and China.

Tejas will be good enough for porks. Though we will be again in a catch 20 situation once they acquire j-31 /20 from chinks.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

If we get it dirt cheap from Taiwan, why not. They are not much older than ours.

UAE is not willing to part with their M2K's for some strange reason.

Instead, they are ready to sell some of their F-16's to Greece.

Cos we can't. We don't recognize Taiwan nor we have open defence relations with them. It's not like going to the market and buying. That means we have to recognise Taiwan and buy from them. It's not possible. Only the US and some NATO counties brave enough to stand up to China can sell anything to them.

While I would really like India to consider Taiwan case, knowing our policy as of now, lower your head bide your time is going on.

 

[LDev]

It appears that the events of August 29-31 were more serious than disclosed initially. So according to this report, on that day, the IA moved it's tanks all the way to the LAC "in minutes" in response to the PLA starting up their tanks as a result of the IA occupying the heights in Pangong Tso south.

The Indian armoured regiments have the capability to reach the LAC within minutes if they are required there and did so recently, when the Chinese activated their tanks after the August 29-30 incidents when India occupied several heights near the southern bank of Pangong lake.

Indian Army geared up for battling both China, harsh winters .. Read more at: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/78344452.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[LDev]

LCA is already obsolete if we are going to consider Modern airforces like USA or European countries.

But our concern is Pakistan and China.

Tejas will be good enough for porks. Though we will be again in a catch 20 situation once they acquire j-31 /20 from chinks.

Correct. India cannot consider the PAF in isolation any longer. Rather, you have to look at the PLAAF technology roadmap 5-10 years down the road. That future PLAAF technology/equipment will be available to the PAF and IAF capability has to be planned not for what the PAF/PLAAF have today, but where they will be 10 years down the road. Otherwise the IAF will forever be in an "emergency procurement" mode.

 

[Gautam Sarkar]

Look another video :

 

[Tridev123]

These are not underground 100's of meters deep protected from an airblast, these are over the ground structures and will go kaput very easily with a nuclear charge or even conventional if a weak spot is hit.

Some statistics of the 3 Gorges Dam
Length = 2335 metres or 2.34 km
Width(at crest) = 40 metres of hard cement concrete with steel reinforcement
Width (at base) = 115 metres ,,
Surface area = 1,084 sq km
Concrete used = 27.2 million cubic metre
Steel used = 463,000 tonnes (enough to build 63 Eiffel Towers)

The amount of water impounded by the dam at max level = 39.3 cubic km

Now please tell me how much of TNT equivalent is needed to bring down the dam and how do you propose to get a single conventional bomb so big to the dam area. What aircraft will you use. Where do you think is a weak spot where a single conventional bomb blast can destroy the dam.

It is not as easy a task as many members think especially with conventional explosives.

If still many people think it is easy you can make a proper technical presentation outlining your strategy. The plan should be technically feasible and supported by scientific facts.

The dam coming under pressure because of high water levels is always possible because of the large storage capacity. That is why sluice gates are provided to let out excess water. Since density of water is one the weight of the impounded water is huge and exerts an large forward pressure on the dam walls.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Some statistics of the 3 Gorges Dam
Length = 2335 metres or 2.34 km
Width(at crest) = 40 metres of hard cement concrete with steel reinforcement
Width (at base) = 115 metres ,,
Surface area = 1,084 sq km
Concrete used = 27.2 million cubic metre
Steel used = 463,000 tonnes (enough to build 63 Eiffel Towers)

The amount of water impounded by the dam at max level = 39.3 cubic km

Now please tell me how much of TNT equivalent is needed to bring down the dam and how do you propose to get a single conventional bomb so big to the dam area. What aircraft will you use. Where do you think is a weak spot where a single conventional bomb blast can destroy the dam.

It is not as easy a task as many members think especially with conventional explosives.

If still many people think it is easy you can make a proper technical presentation outlining your strategy. The plan should be technically feasible and supported by scientific facts.

The dam coming under pressure because of high water levels is always possible because of the large storage capacity. That is why sluice gates are provided to let out excess water. Since density of water is one the weight of the impounded water is huge and exerts an large forward pressure on the dam walls.

Its just not about volumes and stuff, claims are always made but we all know what happened with Fukushima and Chrnobyl and so many other things. They are theoretical and there are more failure points than one can model, secondary failures are one and many and will overwhelm the safety factors of many engineering objects when drastic random (unplanned) forces are applied.....no one really tested this dam for nuclear blast as that is not the primary design factor compared to nuclear bunkers e.t.c and a blast will certainly damage hydraulic structures to operate gates and so on and so many other things that make lot of things inoperable....also I would think the aim would be to take out the power generation first and foremost than collapse the structure.....that is easy to do going for intakes and substations and so. Most turbine halls are underground but not nuclear level underground and they do get flooded pretty often around the world.

I am sure this is a military target for some powers (USA/Russia) as it generates lot of power that is not easily replaceable but for India it may not be based on our capabilities in general and this being too far away.

 

[Synergy]

my fear is they will.blind us first destroy our air power infrastructure and then massacre thousands of troops after isolating them in the hills.

but how exactly?
and what will we do in the meantime? Bhangra with the music they are playing?

nothing to fear. if they have any advantage (militarily), then they would have attacked us a long time ago instead of doing chai-biscuit diplomacy.

all of their propagandas are nothing but inflated balloons. only serious thing they have is MBRL and that's not that much effective in mountainous terrain and where defenders are also scattered.

 

[destructodisc]

Some statistics of the 3 Gorges Dam
Length = 2335 metres or 2.34 km
Width(at crest) = 40 metres of hard cement concrete with steel reinforcement
Width (at base) = 115 metres ,,
Surface area = 1,084 sq km
Concrete used = 27.2 million cubic metre
Steel used = 463,000 tonnes (enough to build 63 Eiffel Towers)

The amount of water impounded by the dam at max level = 39.3 cubic km

Now please tell me how much of TNT equivalent is needed to bring down the dam and how do you propose to get a single conventional bomb so big to the dam area. What aircraft will you use. Where do you think is a weak spot where a single conventional bomb blast can destroy the dam.

It is not as easy a task as many members think especially with conventional explosives.

If still many people think it is easy you can make a proper technical presentation outlining your strategy. The plan should be technically feasible and supported by scientific facts.

The dam coming under pressure because of high water levels is always possible because of the large storage capacity. That is why sluice gates are provided to let out excess water. Since density of water is one the weight of the impounded water is huge and exerts an large forward pressure on the dam walls.

GBU-43/B MOAB -- Mother of all bombs for mother of all dams ( just answering the how much explosive part)