India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Dessert Storm]

Sorry for this off-topic question but i couldn't find any other thread related to this.

Guys what's happening ( or is going to happen ) b/w ARMENIA and AZERBAIJAN? are they really going to fight a war??

Waiting for your comments

Armenian-Azerbaijan 2020 Conflict thread pls

 

[Bhairav]

Armenian-Azerbaijan 2020 Conflict thread pls

Didn't saw that, thanks for informing

 

[Flying Dagger]

It is alive, but taking a decision placing order will take another 5-8 years, and 3 years after that for deliveries to complete.
Buying 36 Rafales was an excellent stopgap solution

Let's be honest... French have fried us in terms of cost. Even they know this... They had over 50 bn euro dev cost which they are recovering from the very small export orders they have.

If we were serious abt stop gap then throw 10 bn dollar and get the whole Mig 35 line with over 200 jets to man the border.

Or go with Gripen best option. It's operating cost is under 5000 dollar per hour in comparison to 17-18000 of Rafale. In short while you can buy more Gripen you can operate them cheaply too.

We could have simply skipped the Tejas single engine and switched to twin engine design using the tech and then AMCA.

Anyway what's done is done congress threw us in a mess. We might have to pay fine with sour foreign relations due to the trap they made.

But unfortunately our all deals are going the same path.

For e.g. let's talk abt Apache Didn't MOD had guts to take both IAF and army into task and let army have Apache ownership we could have saved 2500 crore rs atleast with 28 Apache in army hand.

Same Do we really need to make Aks with Russia ? Can't we spend that money to upgrade the machinery here and process on own or involve private sector simply ?

Ka 226 T utility heli.. Russians have increased the price from what they said earlier we should have simply gone for a tender instead and if not atleast started the factory earlier. But we are still producing cheetah helis.

But no they are being bullied by OFBs. Billions of dollar is wasted to keep OFB in work and in return gets pathetic products.

Let's stop saving them and openly direct them through twitter/sm to do things fast.

 

[garg_bharat]

Sorry for this off-topic question but i couldn't find any other thread related to this.

Guys what's happening ( or is going to happen ) b/w ARMENIA and AZERBAIJAN? are they really going to fight a war??

Waiting for your comments

This is another weapon test arena with real people and real weapons. The dispute is frivolous and obviously can be settled through negotiations but BIG external actors don't want it.

Russia won't allow Armenia to get run over. Turkey won't allow Azerbaijan to lose. So nobody gains.

 

[Knowitall]

Sorry for this off-topic question but i couldn't find any other thread related to this.

Guys what's happening ( or is going to happen ) b/w ARMENIA and AZERBAIJAN? are they really going to fight a war??

Waiting for your comments

Armenian-Azerbaijan 2020 War

Allahu akbar has been diluted if not washed away from Azeris tho. Thank USSR. The current conflict is more of an oogah boogah thing tbh. I was talking about pakis bakwas madarsas. Their pigs are always ready to oink oink anywhere.

defenceforumindia.com

 

[Bhairav]

can be settled through negotiations

seriously?? we had been trying to do the same with kashmir issue, but these mullas only stand language of laat-mukka

 

[garg_bharat]

seriously?? we had been trying to do the same with kashmir issue, but these mullas only stand language of laat-mukka

Our situation is also driven by external actors.
However in case of Karabakh, Russia is still a potent actor.
But American influence in Armenia and Turkey in Azerbaizan are upsetting the balance.

 

[Bhairav]

My take on this issue:-

Background:-

So it all began with Nagorno-Karabakh conflict which is basically an ethnic and territorial conflict ( reminds me of Kashmir ) between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the disputed region of and seven surrounding districts which are controlled by the self-declared Republic of Artsakh ( European version of Gulam Kashmir??? ). a ceasefire agreement was signed in 1994 but there has been several occurrences of ceasefire violations by Azerbaijan ( again reminds me of Kashmir ). So basically apna wala matter hai.

What's our role?

Obviously we should not be silent on such a serious matter. Armenia has openly supported India's stand on the Kashmir issue several times and Azerbaijan is close to Turkey and Paxtan so we cannot trust them.

So should we provide military aid to Armenia?? Well if you ask me, I would say NO! it's not our fight and we should not try to become the next America! Armenia is a landlocked country and none of its neighbors will give us to passage to provide Armenia military stuff. its surrounded by 4 countries of which 3 are Pislamic republics and only 1, Georgia, is a Christian majority country. But Georgia is slightly closer to Azerbaijan and can only help Armenia with humanitarian aid.

So what should we Do?? We should do what we have been doing for ages! that is to provide Armenia with humanitarian aids ( medicines, food, etc. ) and let the Kadi Ninda gang condemn Azerbaijan at the international stage ( but in a slightly aggressive tone )!

 

[omaebakabaka]

Flip the argument once more and u will get the grim reality. We never really tried to get an edge over our enemies since the inception of this nation, just parity was enough for us. This parity too was based on imports from foreign nation at the loss of self sufficiency. I haven't seen any change so radical that would signal otherwise. Nothing Monumental in the military has been changed, its the same old foot soldier Bhoop Singh responsible for winning war and General Sukhwinder Singh making mad buck and banging chicks on Russian trip. The only thing that has changed is the Politicians incharge but Politicians come and go every day, gains that have been made today can very well be reversed tomorrow granted such a enabling party comes to power again. This is because the thing that was responsible for the miseries are still active just little silent now.

This is a sign of a weak and short sighted nations nothing to be proud of, its the concept of Live to die another day.
Strong nations cant be built through cosmetic reforms that wash away at night.

You are not looking I guess, IA looks very confident since Doklam. If any China is getting impatient....as for BD, Pak and other holes.....they are not some vietnam or laos to prop up they will soon be touching half the population of China and no one bar none likes Chinese at a people to people level. Indigenous effort will see some honest effort and results if current leadership survives into next election. 70 years rot just doesn't go away that easily.

 

[omaebakabaka]

My take on this issue:-

Background:-

So it all began with Nagorno-Karabakh conflict which is basically an ethnic and territorial conflict ( reminds me of Kashmir ) between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the disputed region of and seven surrounding districts which are controlled by the self-declared Republic of Artsakh ( European version of Gulam Kashmir??? ). a ceasefire agreement was signed in 1994 but there has been several occurrences of ceasefire violations by Azerbaijan ( again reminds me of Kashmir ). So basically apna wala matter hai.

What's our role?

Obviously we should not be silent on such a serious matter. Armenia has openly supported India's stand on the Kashmir issue several times and Azerbaijan is close to Turkey and Paxtan so we cannot trust them.

So should we provide military aid to Armenia?? Well if you ask me, I would say NO! it's not our fight and we should not try to become the next America! Armenia is a landlocked country and none of its neighbors will give us to passage to provide Armenia military stuff. its surrounded by 4 countries of which 3 are Pislamic republics and only 1, Georgia, is a Christian majority country. But Georgia is slightly closer to Azerbaijan and can only help Armenia with humanitarian aid.

So what should we Do?? We should do what we have been doing for ages! that is to provide Armenia with humanitarian aids ( medicines, food, etc. ) and let the Kadi Ninda gang condemn Azerbaijan at the international stage ( but in a slightly aggressive tone )!

There are better battles to pick than a land locked countries going at it....if we have to pick then side with Greece.

 

[omaebakabaka]

An attack by a nuclear warhead of sufficient yield alone can guarantee its destruction. Such large and important dams are have built in tolerances to cater for powerful earth quakes, enemy bomb attack, sabotage etc. We don't have the inside information on how many tonnes of TNT it can withstand. Such design info will be kept secret.

An attack by a single Brahmos or even multiple will not bring down a structure weighing hundreds of thousands of tonnes and using thousands of tonnes of steel reinforcement. Detailed calculations need to be done to calculate how much of explosive power will be required and the weaknesses in the structure.

It is the biggest hydroelectric dam in the world and massive.
Nuclear weapons will need to be used, otherwise you would need thousands of missiles and sorties by bomber aircraft.

These are not underground 100's of meters deep protected from an airblast, these are over the ground structures and will go kaput very easily with a nuclear charge or even conventional if a weak spot is hit.

 

[Bhairav]

There are better battles to pick than a land locked countries going at it....if we have to pick then side with Greece.

read the post again,,, thanks

 

[omaebakabaka]

read the post again,,, thanks

It was not against your post brother. Just not a high return thing for us to invest

PS: Sorry didn't realize a seperate thread. Please delete or move @mods.

 

[another_armchair]

None of them is selling. UAE has signed upgrades for the fleet and are looking at buying Astra missiles for the M2K fleet. Taiwan cannot sell in the midst of standoff with China. They need the birds. Rest are all reports.

Taiwan's M2K fleet is not in the best of shape and were planning to retire them. If offered hard cash, they could relent. They intend to replace them with F-16s anyway.

 

[another_armchair]

Let's be honest... French have fried us in terms of cost. Even they know this... They had over 50 bn euro dev cost which they are recovering from the very small export orders they have.

If we were serious abt stop gap then throw 10 bn dollar and get the whole Mig 35 line with over 200 jets to man the border.

Or go with Gripen best option. It's operating cost is under 5000 dollar per hour in comparison to 17-18000 of Rafale. In short while you can buy more Gripen you can operate them cheaply too.

We could have simply skipped the Tejas single engine and switched to twin engine design using the tech and then AMCA.

Anyway what's done is done congress threw us in a mess. We might have to pay fine with sour foreign relations due to the trap they made.

But unfortunately our all deals are going the same path.

For e.g. let's talk abt Apache Didn't MOD had guts to take both IAF and army into task and let army have Apache ownership we could have saved 2500 crore rs atleast with 28 Apache in army hand.

Same Do we really need to make Aks with Russia ? Can't we spend that money to upgrade the machinery here and process on own or involve private sector simply ?

Ka 226 T utility heli.. Russians have increased the price from what they said earlier we should have simply gone for a tender instead and if not atleast started the factory earlier. But we are still producing cheetah helis.

But no they are being bullied by OFBs. Billions of dollar is wasted to keep OFB in work and in return gets pathetic products.

Let's stop saving them and openly direct them through twitter/sm to do things fast.

As per a birdie, KA-226 T LUH deal is dead and it would take a miracle and complete capitulation by us to fructify.

 

[omaebakabaka]

As per a birdie, KA-226 T LUH deal is dead and would take a miracle and complete capitulation by us to fructify.

Good, let the Russian's show their cards

 

[Flying Dagger]

As per a birdie, KA-226 T LUH deal is dead and it would take a miracle and complete capitulation by us to fructify.

Due to price ? Then what we are going to opt for to complement HAL LUH ?

 

[omaebakabaka]

Let's be honest... French have fried us in terms of cost. Even they know this... They had over 50 bn euro dev cost which they are recovering from the very small export orders they have.

If we were serious abt stop gap then throw 10 bn dollar and get the whole Mig 35 line with over 200 jets to man the border.

Or go with Gripen best option. It's operating cost is under 5000 dollar per hour in comparison to 17-18000 of Rafale. In short while you can buy more Gripen you can operate them cheaply too.

Agree on the french volumes but they make good quality. No migs unless its life or death or Russians offer engine tech not just license, even VKS is not buying them....no gripen either, comes with mostly American components. Getting F-16's may be better tactically and politically as Trump wants to decrease deficit and they are good planes and plenty around the world.

 

[another_armchair]

Due to price ? Then what we are going to opt for to complement HAL LUH ?

HAL LUH if GoI does not capitulate after pushing HAL to hasten up and complete all trials at the earliest.

The only thing that can save the KA-226T is its twin engines vs single engine of HAL LUH.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Taiwan's M2K fleet is not in the best of shape and were planning to retire them. If offered hard cash, they could relent. They intend to replace them with F-16s anyway.

No point in opting for their Mirage it will take another 50 mn to upgrade. Qatar and UAE have the best with plenty of frame life left. If they can sell it for 20 mn + with spare parts stock they have it's nice deal.

But UAE may not be interested plus if they are really going to opt for Astra we can make money from it and spend on Tejas.