India-China 2020 Border conflict

[mandestiny]

India nearing the completion of deal for 30 MQ-9A Reaper Drones for 3 billion dollars

Source: Livefist

Weaponised or not ?

 

[mandestiny]

This one seems a little unnecessary. 3 billion investment in Indian program could have gotten us a long way into the future.
More Refulers should have been bought instead.

Yeah because if it is weaponised where India will use it. Nor we going to cross LOC anyhow!

 

[Sanglamorre]

Again. What part of " they came prepared to occupy. " did you not understand? I hope you realize how stupid your arguments sound. You have to be ready for escalation right after the forst shots are fired. We would have suffered heavy losses if it happened then. In military circles, following protocols and laid out norms is of utmost importance. Men are willing to sacrifice over it. Thats what separates mere hooliigans armed with guns or militants with a real professional army. Adhering to that keeps peace intact. Even in the case of Pakistan. Otherwise instead of artillery shells being fired daily, you would have have Pinakas and Prithvis being exchanged on a daily basis. Its very easy to sit behind a pc or a phone and comment whatever garbage comes into your mind. Completely different thing to be in the ground and handle things yourself. Its the job of MEA bureaucracy to talk in ways which some people might feel are weak or " dhoti shivering". They buy time. And they have been doing it very well since the crisis erupted. If the politicians wanted to budge, it would have happened already. Geopolitics is not your strong area clearly.

GeOPoLiTicS ooh Wwooh 65 inch 96 D chess woo.

Which part of ITBP under Amit Shah had intel failure that led to massive camp building of Chinese do you not understand? And the fact that whole kOi NaHI GhuSSa drama is to save Chanakya's hide?

They came to occupy. No shit, Sherlock. And we let them occupy and build up through months because OoH PiNakAs WiLl FlY. What will fly now? Birthday cakes? GEoPoLiTicS theory papers? Because we let them build up Artillery now fly from F4 itself.

BuYiNG TimE. For who? People scoff at Chinese logistics but it only in case we cut it off during wartime. They can even now bring more gear via their routes. BuYinG TimE™ makes their hold on F4 more strong and ride over winter so Babus can relax. With as much material amassed at border, what happens if Cuck-MEA don't talk like whipped dogs (please leave our land, request, insist, plzzz ad nauseum). Either China attacks or they don't. Talks haven't stopped them before, neither will they in future. All they do now is publish joint statements and whipped dog speeches in preparing for Haji Pir 2.0

And oh yeah, this "escalation". What will they escalate to after first shot? Could it be... The guns they brought in when making camps when MEA was BuYinG TiME™? Or when we allowed them to build up? Who knew letting your enemy build up bigger guns mean your also have to build up and it'll result in PiNaKaS FlYiNG EveRYdaY.

And the only question I'm asking, if they came prepared to occupy, tf were we doing? Trusting an enemy not to BaCkStaB omg? After finding Chinese weapons in Kashmir everyday? After Doklam?


So essentially, they came and set up a huge base and establishment was like, nah that's fine, surely Chinese who kept doing salami slicing won't do anything bad?

What is this parallel world we are living in where you let your adversary build up via intel failure and then have to consequently build up yourselves while getting your shalwar shiverer beureucrats to buy time but also letting your adversary build up even more?

Will a war now be any less escalatory with powerful gear in place for both sides? If war has to happen, why would you let them build up wtf. The more you talk, the more you make it harder for yourself to evict the squatter.

This one seems a little unnecessary. 3 billion investment in Indian program could have gotten us a long way into the future.
More Refulers should have been bought instead.

Who exactly is the target? I mean, our enemies are PA and PLA, and I don't see GoI striking terrorists in Kashmir with this.

 

[Bhadra]

@Hellfire @Bhadra Please elaborate us about effectiveness of Tube Artillery in high attitude and also whether we deployed such thing on same number as they deployed...

Such innocent questions have elaborate answers that involve many concepts that will fill a book.

Every weapon or group of weapons when fired, its shells or shots do not fall at the same place due to various reasons -external and internal. It has a field of fire which in terms of indirect firing weapons such as guns, howitzers or mortars is called the "Beaten Zone".... Beaten zone is the area between fist fall or farthest fall and first graze or the shortest fall. The distance between the two constitute a beaten zone,

It is well established that majority of the shells and shots will fall in an area close to the center covering 50 percent of the beaten zone. That fifty percent of beaten zone is effective area or effective beaten zone.

Firing of indirect weapons such as artillery has two aspects.

Firstly, artillery is an area weapons and not a point target weapon. But mountains due to their configurations are more of a point target. so there is a problem of engaging a point target by an area weapon.
Since mountains tend to be more of a point targets the trajectory of shell / shot becomes very important. A flat trajectory will have longer beaten zone in the line of fire but a high trajectory weapon will have beaten zone extending less in length but more in width. Therefore high trajectory weapons or guns will have more chances of hitting a point target that is less along axix of fire but more in width.

Coming on to tube artillery Vs rocket artillery - Tube artillery can be fired in high trajectories such as Howitzers and mortars to engage mountains effectively.

Rocket artillery mostly mounted on vehicles has severe limitations in firing high trajectory shells. Hence not very effective for mountains. But there are also single tube rocket artillery fired from shoulders or a stand but those too are difficult to be fired in high angles due to back blasts.

However, all such limitations are overcome by using smart fuzes or guide shells.

 

[avknight1408]

Just wondering whether ITBP carries out it's own logistics or I.A & IAF do it for them?

 

[Suryavanshi]

Just wondering whether ITBP carries out it's own logistics or I.A & IAF do it for them?

It's a glorified police force so I don't think they have any significant transportation chain.
Compared to them BSF has their own small air wing.

 

[Cheran]

 

[Bhadra]

What we believe is important. Rishi always said that even dharm should pass the test of common sense. Human don't fly - so Hanuman cannot fly. But Hanuman can fly in an airplane.

When we start believing falsehoods the social harmony goes for a toss. As anybody can believe anything and result is chaos.

Rishis said humans can fly. They also taught humans how to fly, walk over water, go thorough fire... such achievements were categorized under "Astha Sidhi"....

Hanuman was the master of "Astha Sidhi and Nav Nidhi" therefore I believe he could fly...

This is as per the principles of Rishi.... Vedas say so.. Yoga sastras say so..

You are a blind and psudo Arya Samaji...

 

[utubekhiladi]

China Has No Intention To Fight Either "Cold War" Or "Hot War": Xi Jinping

President Xi Jinping also said that China will continue to narrow the differences and resolve disputes with others through negotations, in comments that came in the backdrop of the tense military standoff between Chinese and Indian armies in eastern Ladakh for over four months.

View attachment 59977

bullet points and summarization of his speech

• China will never seek hegemony, expansion, or sphere of influence
• Beijing has no intention to fight either a "Cold War" or a "hot war" with any country.
• China will continue to narrow the differences and resolve disputes with others through negotiations.
• Communist Party of China and the Commander-in-Chief of the Chinese military, said his country will not pursue development behind closed doors.
• Rather, we aim to foster, over time, a new development paradigm with domestic circulation as the mainstay and domestic and international circulations reinforcing each other.
• Facing the virus, we should enhance solidarity and get this through together.
• follow the guidance of science, give full play to the leading role of the World Health Organization, and launch a joint international response to beat this pandemic.
• "To pursue a beggar-thy-neighbor policy or just watch from a safe distance when others are in danger will eventually land one in the same trouble faced by others," he said.
• We should reject attempts to build blocs to keep others out and oppose a zero-sum approach.
• We should see each other as members of the same big family, pursue win-win cooperation, and rise above ideological disputes and do not fall into the trap of "clash of civilizations," he said.
• More importantly, he said one should respect a country's "independent choice of development path and model.
• The world is diverse in nature, and we should turn this diversity into a constant source of inspiration driving human advancement. ensure that human civilizations remain colorful and diversified, Xi said
• finally - "As we pursue this bright future, we must hold accountable the nation which unleashed this plague onto the world: China," he said.

BC he is now speaking like Gautama Buddha

I will follow up in another post and explain how the world interprets his speech

Below is the actual interpretation of xi speech, please correct me if i am wrong



China will never seek hegemony, expansion, or sphere of influence
it means other nations should surrender and bow to us. or else we will infiltrate and overtake your countries key decision making peoples, bureaucrats, ministers etc. we will also entrap your nation in debt. take a look at what we did to poor nepal, srilanka and of course our concubine porkistan.

Beijing has no intention to fight either a "Cold War" or a "hot war" with any country.
what xi means, let's be honest, our psp and xbox playing semi-boys can't fight shit in real war, that too in ladakh. all our shiny new metals are used to produce 4k HDR propaganda videos. but we expect you to keep quite and allow us to continue our salami slicing. we are here to fulfill the mao's dream of five-fingers.

China will continue to narrow the differences and resolve disputes with others through negotiations.
what it means: we will continue to ponder your country inch by inch until there is nothing left. if you do resist, then we will economy sanction you and threaten you daily using our gobar times. so its best you just simply surrender to us like nepal and pakistan did.

Communist Party of China and the Commander-in-Chief of the Chinese military, said his country will not pursue development behind closed doors.
xi means, gone are days for closed door diplomacy, now we will openly threaten and blackmail any nation who doesn't submit to our will.

Rather, we aim to foster, over time, a new development paradigm with domestic circulation as the mainstay and domestic and international circulations reinforcing each other.
xi is taking about chinese RMB gentlemen.

Facing the virus, we should enhance solidarity and get this through together.
this is what xi means by "get this through together". he mean global economy and dollar system will be broken apart and china shall become the new boss of the world.

follow the guidance of science, give full play to the leading role of the World Health Organization, and launch a joint international response to beat this pandemic.
xi says, don't bother about WHO and lunching joint operations. since we now own WHO, you can do nothing about it.

"To pursue a beggar-thy-neighbor policy or just watch from a safe distance when others are in danger will eventually land one in the same trouble faced by others," he said.
xi need your ports, minerals, road access, water, natural resources and everything else. to achieve this, we don't mind to debt trap your tiny nation. take a look at what we did to Africa.

We should reject attempts to build blocs to keep others out and oppose a zero-sum approach.
xi means, only i can build block and only i can decide who to keep in and who to keep out.

We should see each other as members of the same big family, pursue win-win cooperation, and rise above ideological disputes and do not fall into the trap of "clash of civilizations," he said.
xi means, the world belongs to one china and everybody is the member of same chinese genes. any other civilization like Indian civilization we do not consider.

More importantly, he said one should respect a country's "independent choice of development path and model.
xi: on side note, this doesn't apply to taiwan, hong kong, tibet, mangolia and all my other slave nations like nepal and pakistan and srilanka.

finally - "As we pursue this bright future, we must hold accountable the nation which unleashed this plague onto the world: China," he said.
what xi means, y'all know who released the virus right? i m giving you open challenge. you can't do shit.

 

[Lancer]

Weaponised or not ?

Should be. Reapers, to my knowledge, are armed.

Would be a pretty pointless purchase if they aren't.

 

[Bhadra]

It's a glorified police force so I don't think they have any significant transportation chain.
Compared to them BSF has their own small air wing.

In operational areas when deployed along with Army, their logistics is taken care of by Army - rations, food, medical, repairs, ammunition etc is all by Army. It under book debit.
The administration is with their own organization who are absentee lords and never venture beyond Chandigarh and Leh.

 

[Dessert Storm]

This one seems a little unnecessary. 3 billion investment in Indian program could have gotten us a long way into the future.
More Refulers should have been bought instead.

Probably some sort of Indo-US 'readjustments' in strategy against China. Interoperability won't be an issue when 'networking with' assets around and higher up in the atmosphere. This project and/or the likes had been put on the back burner by GOI, but sudden movement points to tactical relevance of the platform.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Opposition walkout in Rajya Sabha gives govt walkover on 7 bills



opposition should stage more walkout.

Opposition walkout in Rajya Sabha gives govt walkover on 7 bills | India News - Times of India

India News: With opposition benches in the Rajya Sabha empty — their occupants walked out on Tuesday saying they would boycott proceedings until the suspension of

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[cereal killer]

Even Pakis slave rejected this Z-10 attack heli I guess

 

[mandestiny]

Should be. Reapers, to my knowledge, are armed.

Would be pointless if they aren't.

Actually situation at LOC and LAC not allowing India to focus on home defense industry development.
More money going into import. Why DRDO not able to develop weponized drone like this one up till now !

 

[Sanglamorre]

Opposition walkout in Rajya Sabha gives govt walkover on 7 bills



opposition should stage more walkout.

Opposition walkout in Rajya Sabha gives govt walkover on 7 bills | India News - Times of India

India News: With opposition benches in the Rajya Sabha empty — their occupants walked out on Tuesday saying they would boycott proceedings until the suspension of

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

...

What even. They have no desire to actually debate the bill like responsible opposition. Just virtue signalling.

 

[Kumata]

Actually situation at LOC and LAC not allowing India to focus on home defense industry development.
More money going into import. Why DRDO not able to develop weponized drone like this one up till now !

DRDO - One need funds and budget... both are a scarce commodity... suspect if they have done anything substantial in recent time...i could be wrong as well

 

[Tridev123]

This one seems a little unnecessary. 3 billion investment in Indian program could have gotten us a long way into the future.
More Refulers should have been bought instead.

Yes, the jury is out on spending such large sums of money on drones even if armed.

Armed drones will be useful to target terrorist installations inside our own country
But where there is a radar network these drones will be detected and shot down.
So unless we have real stealth drones which have RCS let's say equal to a bird and cannot be unambiguously distinguished on the radar screen, it's utility is almost nil.
The drones of today cannot do high g turns and evade surface to air and air to air missiles. Drones can even be shot down by helicopters.

But if a drone flies at very high altitude and out of range of most aircraft and Sam's then theoretically by using LGB's or other precision guided weapons it should have a decent chance of success.

Enormous money and time has been spent to create stealth for fighter aircraft and it is not impossible to do the same for much smaller in size drones. A drone could have the RCS of a F22 Raptor fighter or even less. Maybe have a small internal bay for one or two smart bombs. Use of AI will make the task easier.

I think we can boldly say that a drone which is detected is a sitting duck.
Now how will the newly acquired drones be used against China or Pakistan is a big question mark.

Drones flying over the sea and spotting a terrorist boat and firing a missile to sink the terrorist boat is possible. Makes sense as such boats will not have shoulder fired Sam's or radars.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

"Even their propaganda, Even their military propaganda depends on stealing from the United States"

Play at the time 2:31 to be exact... Joshua is accurately correct.

CCP is getting the bashing from every side.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

DRDO - One need funds and budget... both are a scarce commodity... suspect if they have done anything substantial in recent time...i could be wrong as well

It’s only an excuse
Russia has less Funds than Japan and Germany but their Millitary Industrial Complex is bigger than Both the countries put together
Israel has less funds than Saudi Arabia but their millitary industrial complex is bigger than entire oil rich Arab world put together
It’s not about money it’s all about political will if our leadership is committed we can make millitary industrial complex like China and Russia if not like USA in 10 years time