India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Even with 3 or 4 things that he has done he is called names inside and outside India....dictator, genocide, and so on. You have to give time, damage done is huge and opposition is relentless. Lot of things happened and are happening, how significant border roads and NE rail connection, it can not be under estimated at all....attempt is made to change education syllabus and what not. You are expecting too much in a short time as far as politics in India are concerned. People turncoat easily in India if it starts impacting their bottom line even a little bit. He may turn out to be same who knows but reasonable time has to pass before you can judge. All macro metrics are on good side including defence.

Sirji, I never said work is not done .
Who calls him names , libarandus of outside about whom why should we care.
Seriously why should we care , it's the pace which troubles me.

 

[omaebakabaka]

means your minds are consumed by more than war and violence. US and Canada both were not ready for war in WW2. But both had accumulated savings/wealth and also factories that could be converted to a war effort if needed. Weapons and military consumes an economy weakening it. Look at ready to fight Nazi Germany...ended up being ready to be defeated Nazi Germany. Current ready to fight USA seems to continually not succeed.

I get what you are saying but we have had enough of that with Turks and Anglos and we are not nazis but it is our only home and we have to always ready to defend it. My sensei died now but he is the old style type that used to say a warrior is always ready sleeping, eating or mediating or doing pretty much anything.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Sirji, I never said work is not done .
Who calls him names , libarandus of outside about whom why should we care.
Seriously why should we care , it's the pace which troubles me.

Farmers protest sabotage, Anti-CAA, all these are signs of deep rooted internal sabotage and you can't just remove them without patience and strategy. These are our own sons and daughters meaninglessly pursuing selfish nonsense without even knowing what it is that they are protesting about.

Everyone wants good things to happen faster but they happen based on diligence, patience and hardwork which almost always requires time. Anyway....we all have an opinion about it....

 

[IndianYonko]

Sirji , 7 years it's 7 years .
Even if he did not go full stalin on such bastrds even then it was enough to do the much talked " CONSOLIDATION" as many like to talk about.
If bjp loses 24, they will win , the ungrateful snakes will win.
To win in 24 bjp should have reined in them , as it's bjp which has power .
Not them, just complete that cultural revolution which sanjay baru was talking about, I know it's just snake oil by baru to make us patriots complacent and make us believe that sab changa si

It's 70 years of hard work. It will take time to undo. What Sanjay Baru was saying is happening, otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned it. It will take time to show effect since there are a group of people at the top groomed by past ecosystem and they are loyal to them. Coming to 24 states; bro I'm not disappointed in Modi but definitely disappointed in their State Leadership. They seem to have a shortage of leaders at the state level. and centre too(Javdekar and Ravishankar Prasad).
BJP needs is to not become totally dependant on Modi. They should decentralize the leadership at least in BJP.

Aur Koi Baba ki Daadhi Katwao; else sab Changa si.... This Covid phase will pass to.

Sirji, I never said work is not done .
Who calls him names , libarandus of outside about whom why should we care.
Seriously why should we care, it's the pace which troubles me.

In Global context, #LIBRANDUSMATTER

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

It's 70 years of hard work. It will take time to undo. What Sanjay Baru was saying is happening, otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned it. It will take time to show effect since there are a group of people at the top groomed by past ecosystem and they are loyal to them. Coming to 24 states; bro I'm not disappointed in Modi but definitely disappointed in their State Leadership. They seem to have a shortage of leaders at the state level. and centre too(Javdekar and Ravishankar Prasad).
BJP needs is to not become totally dependant on Modi. They should decentralize the leadership at least in BJP.

Aur Koi Baba ki Daadhi Katwao; else sab Changa si.... This Covid phase will pass to.


In Global context, #LIBRANDUSMATTER

Let them matter there , they must ve made irrelevant here.

 

[IndianYonko]

Let them matter there , they must ve made irrelevant here.

You can see a perfect example of this in Farmer's protest, the CAA protest. How they were deemed anti-national by public sentiment and asked to fuck off by common public. This time Delhi assembly elections will be interesting.

 

[omaebakabaka]

You can see a perfect example of this in Farmer's protest, the CAA protest. How they were deemed anti-national by public sentiment and asked to fuck off by common public. This time Delhi assembly elections will be interesting.

I have lost my trust in Delhites....goonda gardi is the only thing they excel.

 

[IndianYonko]

I have lost my trust in Delhites....goonda gardi is the only thing they excel.

I agree with you in the case of Delhites, but my point was, BJP leaders now have so much to talk about Kejus's character and his loyal's involvement in terrorism.

 

[omaebakabaka]

House cleaning??

Mr. Modi introduced 'Social Sciences, Arts' in IITs

That does not make sense but wrong thread brother....lets leave this for china discussion.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Chinese being chinese I guess....globalized world but local behavior. This lady slapped the store clerk apparently. Koreans and Japanese don't take it lightly foreigners abusing locals.

"South Korean authorities want to question Xiang Xueqiu, the wife of Belgian Ambassador Peter Lescouhier, following a complaint about an alleged altercation between her and a member of staff at a clothes store."

 

[IndianYonko]

Chinese being chinese I guess....globalized world but local behavior. This lady slapped the store clerk apparently. Koreans and Japanese don't take it lightly foreigners abusing locals.

"South Korean authorities want to question Xiang Xueqiu, the wife of Belgian Ambassador Peter Lescouhier, following a complaint about an alleged altercation between her and a member of staff at a clothes store."

How come so many wives are Chinese? I mean there is nothing so attractive about them.

 

[omaebakabaka]

How come so many wives are Chinese? I mean there is nothing so attractive about them.

European men are into S&M and they like to get punished and we all know chinese women are alphas in China and even slap and kick their husbands. European woman are also scarce commodity now with some can't really identify their sex as they are confused and the others loaned to groomers by their families and govt.

 

[fire starter]

 

[Waanar]

Only the Chinese government can call cancelled plans "provocative".

I'm too lazy to research.
How bad will this affect the Chinese, you guys?

 

[sorcerer]

Only the Chinese government can call cancelled plans "provocative".

I'm too lazy to research.
How bad will this affect the Chinese, you guys?

Thats the chinese version of be prepared for economic repercussions on Australian business with china.
chinese barking only.
fuck china

 

[Cheran]

ZojlLa Pass reopens: Big relief for Ladakh, Army

Opening of Srinagar-Leh and Manali-Leh highways is crucial for the supply of ammunition, food, fuel, essentials for Indian troops in Ladakh

www.deccanchronicle.com

The roads to Ladakh have opened after winter amidst the continued standoff with China. The ZojiLa Pass, which connects Kashmir to Ladakh, was opened on Wednesday and the Manali-Leh highway was opened some three weeks ago.

The opening of the Srinagar-Leh and Manali-Leh highways is crucial for the supply of ammunition, food, fuel and other essentials for the Indian troops who are deployed in Ladakh. The opening of these roads indicates that the Army has successfully managed the winter deployment of the additional troops who were rushed into Ladakh after the tensions soared with China. Last year the Indian Army had rushed supplies to Ladakh for some 50,000 troops which were to be stationed in the area during winter at sub-zero temperatures due to the tensions with China.

Finally, after efforts by Projects Beacon and Vijayak of BRO, connectivity was re-established on April 21 and 10 civil trucks, carrying essential fresh supplies, moved across the ZojiLa Pass towards Kargil, bringing much needed relief to the people of Ladakh. Lt. Gen. Rajeev Chaudhary, the BRO director-general, said the ZojiLa Pass’ reopening will facilitate the availability of essential goods and supplies for the people of Ladakh and also enable the easier movement of Army convoys.

 

[shade]

How come so many wives are Chinese? I mean there is nothing so attractive about them.

Permanent honey trap.
First they sleep with the gora in question, then act as middlewoman between CCP and husband for profitable financial dealings with China, then also blackmail the husband into becoming a CCP spy/lobbyist/shill in home country.

 

[ezsasa]

Permanent honey trap.
First they sleep with the gora in question, then act as middlewoman between CCP and husband for profitable financial dealings with China, then also blackmail the husband into becoming a CCP spy/lobbyist/shill in home country.

Same in US as well.

Mitch McConnell’s Secret Weapon: His Wife

Campaign insiders say Chao was a driving force of his reelection campaign

fortune.com

 

[Blank]

Why India opted for a ‘stand-alone’ agreement with China in Ladakh?

Why India opted for a ‘stand-alone’ agreement with China in Ladakh
It is my assessment that the Chinese issued a direct/indirect threat to go on the offensive in DBO and Gogra-Hot Springs sector.

LT GEN H S PANAG (RETD)22 April, 2021 11:37 am IST

Defence Minister Rajnath Singh at a meeting with CDS Gen. Bipin Rawat, the three service chiefs and other officials (for representation) | Photo: ANI

There has been a phased but continuous source-based coverage and commentary about the lack of progress on the disengagement process — with special reference to Gogra-Hot Springs and Depsang Plains — since the 11th Corps Commander-level talks held on 9 April. In the past, deliberate ‘government leaks’ on the situation in Eastern Ladakh were given as handouts to all media houses and the story was broken almost simultaneously.
This time, such reports have appeared in different media outlets intermittently with slight variations to ensure their credibility. The intent seems to be to justify and shape public opinion to accept an ‘unfavourable peace’ that is being imposed on us by the Chinese.

The themes of the ‘unofficial briefings’
The Indian Express reported that Depsang was a legacy issue dating back to April-May 2013 intrusion, after which our patrols have been prevented from going beyond Bottle Neck/Y Junction up to Patrolling Points 10, 11, 12 and 13. The source emphasised that nothing new has happened in Depsang Plains during this entire crisis since April 2020, and that it was added to the list of friction areas so that it gets resolved. Thus, as of April 2020, the status quo has not changed in Depsang Plains. Even during the height of the standoff last year, the Chinese, the source quoted in the Express report said, were “not organised” for combat in Depsang Plains and Gogra-Hot Springs. The theme being propagated for public consumption is that there is nothing to resolve in Depsang Plains and that status quo never really changed.

The second theme being plied by the so-called “reliable sources” is that the Chinese are refusing to withdraw from Gogra-Hot Springs area, but they have a very limited presence — of approximately a platoon to a company on our side of the LAC — in areas of Patrolling Points 15 and 17A and that it is not really a flash point. This theme of information dissemination via the media plays down the serious implications of the Chinese intrusion in Gogra-Hot Springs and the threatening presence of a large number of Peoples’ Liberation Army (PLA) troops in this area.

The third theme of the “unofficial briefings” is that North and South Pangong Tso were the only areas where troops and tanks were in very close proximity to each other that could have escalated to war. The intent here seems to be to justify the now apparent “stand-alone agreement” for simultaneous withdrawal and the loss of “leverage” of our relatively advantageous deployment on the Kailash Range.

The fourth theme that has been brandied about is that China now wants deescalation of additional troops deployed before further disengagement takes place. The aim is to convey to the public that our massive deployment checkmated China and now there is no harm in agreeing for the same to diffuse the situation. More so, when there is nothing to resolve in Depsang Plains and differences in Gogra-Hot Springs with respect to disengagement are of a minor nature that will soon get resolved.
Also read: China deploys long-range rocket launchers in western theatre command as ‘deterrent to India’

Reality check
In the past one year, there has been no formal briefing about the situation in Eastern Ladakh. The quantum of Chinese forces, the extent of the intrusions and the details of the operations carried out have not been put in public domain. The media has not been given access to the operational area and has been spoon-fed through these “unofficial briefings”. Denial and obfuscation has been the predominant feature of the government’s political/unofficial statements. The media, afraid of annoying the government, failed to critically analyse the open domain information and provide a realistic assessment of the situation.

Let there be no doubt that China strategically surprised and preempted us with two/three mechanised divisions to secure areas up to the 1959 Claim Line in Depsang Plains and North of Pangong Tso, and in Gogra-Hot Springs even beyond the 1959 Claim Line. The Chinese were poised to capture the Daulat Beg Oldi Sector and entire area north and north-east of Pangong Tso, apart from threatening the Indus Valley up to the Ladakh Range.

After the initial surprise, we responded by confronting the Chinese with massive counter-deployment. Terrain configuration makes DBO and Gogra-Hot Springs sector defensively untenable in a limited war and, hence, rightly our focus was in North and South of Pangong Tso and the Indus Valley. Given the differential in military capability, we opted to stalemate the Chinese rather than resort to evicting them by an offensive action. This did not change the situation in the DBO Sector and Gogra-Hot Springs, which remained our critical vulnerabilities.

Our brilliant offensive manoeuvre to secure the Kailash Range on the night of 29-30 August created a military and political embarrassment for China. This led to diplomatic engagement and more meaningful military talks that culminated in disengagement from the North and South bank of Pangong Tso between 10 and 18 February. The 10th Corps Commander-level talks took place as per agreement exactly 48 hours later.


Let me reiterate that Depsang Plains and Gogra-Hot Springs continue to be our critical vulnerabilities and the Chinese have no intent to withdraw from there. The withdrawal from the North and South bank of Pangong Tso was a “stand-alone agreement” with no commitments from China to disengage from other sectors. Note the alleged contemptuous quote attributed to the Chinese in the recent talks — India “should be happy with what has been achieved”.

India’s securing of the Kailash Range was a great embarrassment for China. Domestically and internationally it lost face. The LAC passes over the crest of the Kailash Range, and thereafter there is a gradual plateau to the east, one to two km wide. India did not cross the LAC to secure this plateau and the eastern slopes. The PLA deployed its soldiers in matching strength opposite us on the plateau and also posed a threat to us from the Black Top, which also we had not secured. Moldo is not a garrison but a small post of PLA Border Guards. The main PLA base is well away. Thus, militarily, we were not posing a serious threat. In fact, our more serious threat was in the Indus Valley where we had concentrated our reserves.

It was the embarrassment and loss of face that led China to give up its absolutist position and come to the negotiating table. India insisted on an all-encompassing package to include North and South of Pangong Tso, Depsang, Gogra-Hot Springs and Demchok. It is my assessment that the Chinese issued a direct/indirect threat to go on the offensive in DBO and Gogra-Hot Springs sector. Given our critical vulnerability in these areas, we agreed to a “stand-alone agreement”.

The DBO sector is defensively untenable in war. China is unlikely to make any compromise in Depsang Plains and we seem to have accepted it as a fait accompli. Hence, the narrative that it is a legacy issue where status quo April 2020 has not changed and that it was a dormant sector during the entire crisis.

We also seem to have accepted the intrusion south of Demchok in Charding-Ninglung Nala. Indeed, this is a legacy of the past. This intrusion does not create any vulnerability, and the 1959 Claim Line still remains 30 km to west and is under our firm control.

In Hot Springs-Gogra, the 1959 Claim Line and the LAC coincide. India has been aggressively developing roads along the Kugrang river and Chunglung Nala from where approaches lead north to upper reaches of the Galwan river. To ward off this threat, the Chinese have intruded from Changlung Nala and via upper reaches of the Kugrang river to deny us access to nearly 30-35 km-long and 4 km-wide Kugrang river valley beyond Gogra. We have no scope for any counter-action to gain leverage due to the 100-km-long tenuous road linking this area to Lukung. In the event of any escalation, the entire Chang Chenmo valley becomes defensively untenable as the road leading to it can be cutoff at Tsogtsalu / Marsimik La/ Phobrang. At best, what we can hope for is a buffer zone in the entire Kugrang river valley, which will entirely be in territory on our side of the LAC and which was under our control before May 2020.

We have stalemated the Chinese and denied them absolute victory. But Depsang Plains and Gogra-Hot Springs continue to remain our vulnerabilities and we have no counter-military leverage. It may be prudent to diffuse the crisis by negotiating buffer zones in these critical areas even if these entirely are on our side of the LAC. Rather than rely upon a false narrative, it is better to explain the situation to the public. It may appear to be “unfavourable peace” but given our vulnerabilities, it is the best we can hope for.

Seems to me a good article. Unbias, clears the confusion.

 

[prasadr14]

Why India opted for a ‘stand-alone’ agreement with China in Ladakh?



Seems to me a good article. Unbias, clears the confusion.

Print + Panag.

I don't have to read the article to know it's class A BS & a pro Chinki one.