India-China 2020 Border conflict

[mokoman]

@Deadtrap can you post the planet labs image of March of Galwan?



Ban was lifted last year. We fired bullets and Carl Gustaf in Rezang La to celebrate it.

only have monthly access , most images from ladak look like crap

double sentinel resolution but recent ones are blurry

 

[mist_consecutive]

only have monthly access , most images from ladak look like crap

double sentinel resolution but recent ones are blurry

View attachment 86234

Hmm, the pace seems to be around 200m per month. By that, we will need another year to reach PP14. And we will reach our last camp in Galwan valley in the next 2-3 months.

Surprising thing China hasn't started any such activity.

 

[mokoman]

Hmm, the pace seems to be around 200m per month. By that, we will need another year to reach PP14. And we will reach our last camp in Galwan valley in the next 2-3 months.

Surprising thing China hasn't started any such activity.

Surprising thing China hasn't started any such activity.

yea i guess we came to agreement,so no tension for them.

they removed construction , both sides pull back 1.5km from lac and they got some land.

 

[Suhaldev]

China’s President Xi Jinping said on Tuesday global rules cannot be imposed “by one or a few countries” and attempts to “decouple” would not benefit any nation.

A few countries cannot set global rules, says Chinese President Xi Jinping

Xi Jinping outlined China’s view of a world in flux and contained veiled criticisms appeared to be aimed the United States

www.thehindu.com

 

[DownWithCCP]

Excellent talk must watch, very erudite.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Current vaccination isn't the cure and shouldn't suppose to be thought that way, until our armed forces personnel are shot with MRNA based vaccination, its better they be vigilant and maintain all Wuhan virus norms.

Shit will hit the fan in May, that's when we as a nation should remain strong. I am seeing a lot of deaths in city where I live (cleanest city just became, death city), calm minds and good strategy is ultimately the only way. I am seriously thinking that our CM is a joke.

Even with mRNA who knows....there is no reliable data that vaccines like these work at all yet on the strains that will inevitably mutate as its so wide spread both genetically and geographically....it takes years to study. People are still told to wear masks and so on....hard to trust any govt or anyone these days...

 

[Maitreya Shyam]

 

[Hellfire]

Do you guys think there is going to be another round of action to get them out of Gogra Hotsprings and Galwan?
IIRC @Hellfire said that we may have to fight for Gogra Hotsprings and Galwan, seems like the only option left other than accepting the new status quo with the PLA apparently telling the IA to be happy with what they have achieved, CSG is expected to meet this week apparently, we will know in afew days ig.

I will quote my self:

"Army has been asked to look at the broader picture"

This was before the Pangong Tso pull back.

Mr Nehru 2.0, our current PM, made a mistake. Depsang and other places should have been sorted out prior to Pangong Tso. Now, the refrain of "legacy" issues is being mainstreamed because the GoI backed itself into corner by attacking Mr Nehru and Congress but realizing that the Depsang issue, a legacy of NDA-1 under Mr Vajpayee, remains relevant and people have begun to ask questions on that.

 

[Hellfire]

@Hellfire, since China has refused to disengage from Gogra and Hot Springs, what does IA do now, something like what it did in August end last year, with the joint ex between IA IAF ITBP being some smokescreen?

No aggressive action will be initiated by India and China does not need to. They have "secured" their interests over CPEC road by creating a "friction" point with India to keep discussing over the next 3 years. Till then, there will be a sustained attempt to corner to the dispensation in power in order to create political discomfort for them to keep them distracted to internal issues (the dispensation in power fully helps in that with its antics is well understood)

So, IA will sit and twiddly its thumbs. CDS and Chief will be told to make statements of 'legacy' issues, 'old outstanding' issues, 'peaceful settlement', 'negotiations', 'talks' and the farce of multiple Military Talks followed by MEA bureaucrats meeting counterparts to create "groundwork" for Ministerial talks to facilitate a summit meet .... will be played out.

Towards this end, I expect Chinese to be funny in 2022. Not this summers. This summers, they will build their military infrastructure and force levels in theater for a limited conflict while we twiddle thumbs building overground NG-HAS at Leh which will get hit hard in first salvos of war.

Why they can't be made underground .... is something that beats me ...

 

[omaebakabaka]

I will quote my self:

"Army has been asked to look at the broader picture"

This was before the Pangong Tso pull back.

Mr Nehru 2.0, our current PM, made a mistake. Depsang and other places should have been sorted out prior to Pangong Tso. Now, the refrain of "legacy" issues is being mainstreamed because the GoI backed itself into corner by attacking Mr Nehru and Congress but realizing that the Depsang issue, a legacy of NDA-1 under Mr Vajpayee, remains relevant and people have begun to ask questions on that.

India then under Vajpayee and now is different, Vajpayee inherited a govt during which our forces were mostly dependant on Russians for the most part and chaos that happened with USSR and Russia not to mention the culture and thought process. Modi also inherited depleted IAF and other things...my take is we are still not ready and it is not prudent yet to rush into war among other things such as pandemic and so on. They are still getting the Northeast connected and lot of stuff is work in progress....we need to be patient a bit and let the heavyweights Russia, China and US get it on....

 

[DownWithCCP]

No aggressive action will be initiated by India and China does not need to. They have "secured" their interests over CPEC road by creating a "friction" point with India to keep discussing over the next 3 years. Till then, there will be a sustained attempt to corner to the dispensation in power in order to create political discomfort for them to keep them distracted to internal issues (the dispensation in power fully helps in that with its antics is well understood)

So, IA will sit and twiddly its thumbs. CDS and Chief will be told to make statements of 'legacy' issues, 'old outstanding' issues, 'peaceful settlement', 'negotiations', 'talks' and the farce of multiple Military Talks followed by MEA bureaucrats meeting counterparts to create "groundwork" for Ministerial talks to facilitate a summit meet .... will be played out.

Towards this end, I expect Chinese to be funny in 2022. Not this summers. This summers, they will build their military infrastructure and force levels in theater for a limited conflict while we twiddle thumbs building overground NG-HAS at Leh which will get hit hard in first salvos of war.

Why they can't be made underground .... is something that beats me ...

I will quote my self:

"Army has been asked to look at the broader picture"

This was before the Pangong Tso pull back.

Mr Nehru 2.0, our current PM, made a mistake. Depsang and other places should have been sorted out prior to Pangong Tso. Now, the refrain of "legacy" issues is being mainstreamed because the GoI backed itself into corner by attacking Mr Nehru and Congress but realizing that the Depsang issue, a legacy of NDA-1 under Mr Vajpayee, remains relevant and people have begun to ask questions on that.

This is so eerily similar to what Lt Gen Kamath had to say in this video

 

[Hellfire]

India then under Vajpayee and now is different, Vajpayee inherited a govt during which our forces were mostly dependant on Russians for the most part and chaos that happened with USSR and Russia not to mention the culture and thought process. Modi also inherited depleted IAF and other things...my take is we are still not ready and it is not prudent yet to rush into war among other things such as pandemic and so on. They are still getting the Northeast connected and lot of stuff is work in progress....we need to be patient a bit and let the heavyweights Russia, China and US get it on....

2002.

Indian Army, IAF were in a different league at the time by then ..... we had domination of Airspace - against both PAF and PLAAF.

And Mr Vajpayee recognized Tibet as part of China that day - formally.

If Mr Modi "inherited" a depleted Airforce, then the actions of his Govt to address the issue at the pace that he has, has certainly not been in consonance with a policy that would be aimed at addressing the issue.

Delay in execution of contracts is significant.

7th year of his GoI rule - still struggling to make up numbers to replace Mig-21s which should have been out by now, not even bothering about other aircrafts which have been phased out. That is a pretty long time. Mr Nehru inherited a much weaker and poorer nation in 1947, he lost a war to China - yet is blamed for not doing anything, retrospectively.

So when Mr Modi can blame Mr Nehru for not having the foresight of a leader (with his own insight being retrospective), why should Mr Modi not use the same standard on himself?

Assuredly, the only reason China has not initiated a military conflict right now is because it has more to gain by avoiding a military conflict with India while engaging in a carrot and stick policy, than in initiating a conflict with India.

I understand my words would not be liked by many - does not matter. Not going to do a Lt Gen BN Kaul .... I have the moral courage to call out the stupidity of the present GoI when I see it happening.

Recall that I did call out their bold decision to let Army take a lead in August and I did say that, paraphrasing:

"For the first time post independence, the army has been told to prepare a response. On being asked for the political directives as always, the GoI asked the army to put up military options and the GoI will align the political imperatives with those."

 

[DownWithCCP]

No aggressive action will be initiated by India and China does not need to. They have "secured" their interests over CPEC road by creating a "friction" point with India to keep discussing over the next 3 years. Till then, there will be a sustained attempt to corner to the dispensation in power in order to create political discomfort for them to keep them distracted to internal issues (the dispensation in power fully helps in that with its antics is well understood)

So, IA will sit and twiddly its thumbs. CDS and Chief will be told to make statements of 'legacy' issues, 'old outstanding' issues, 'peaceful settlement', 'negotiations', 'talks' and the farce of multiple Military Talks followed by MEA bureaucrats meeting counterparts to create "groundwork" for Ministerial talks to facilitate a summit meet .... will be played out.

Towards this end, I expect Chinese to be funny in 2022. Not this summers. This summers, they will build their military infrastructure and force levels in theater for a limited conflict while we twiddle thumbs building overground NG-HAS at Leh which will get hit hard in first salvos of war.

Why they can't be made underground .... is something that beats me ...

This is exactly what Gen Kamath said, he said the MEA still doesn't have faith in the IA and he even said that the Chinese won't go back after vacation of Kailash range and MEA has official sidestepped by calling it new "friction zones" exactly how the chinese want it to be called, he even said "who the hell is the MEA to declare friction zone"

 

[Hellfire]

This is so eerily similar to what Lt Gen Kamath had to say in this video

Know him since 1993

He was doing his Senior Command, and then became DS Senior Command Wing... last met him when he was Chief of Staff Central Command

 

[DownWithCCP]

Know him since 1993

Excellent insights this man has, for the first few minutes I had my disagreements but when he spelt things out more correctly it all made sense, every word he says makes perfect sense. GoI must take inputs from people like him.

 

[DownWithCCP]

OT but do you think Jaishankar will be sacked?
especially after this
What was this all about then?

 

[omaebakabaka]

2002.

Indian Army, IAF were in a different league at the time by then ..... we had domination of Airspace - against both PAF and PLAAF.

And Mr Vajpayee recognized Tibet as part of China that day - formally.

If Mr Modi "inherited" a depleted Airforce, then the actions of his Govt to address the issue at the pace that he has, has certainly not been in consonance with a policy that would be aimed at addressing the issue.

Delay in execution of contracts is significant.

7th year of his GoI rule - still struggling to make up numbers to replace Mig-21s which should have been out by now, not even bothering about other aircrafts which have been phased out. That is a pretty long time. Mr Nehru inherited a much weaker and poorer nation in 1947, he lost a war to China - yet is blamed for not doing anything, retrospectively.

So when Mr Modi can blame Mr Nehru for not having the foresight of a leader (with his own insight being retrospective), why should Mr Modi not use the same standard on himself?

Assuredly, the only reason China has not initiated a military conflict right now is because it has more to gain by avoiding a military conflict with India while engaging in a carrot and stick policy, than in initiating a conflict with India.

I understand my words would not be liked by many - does not matter. Not going to do a Lt Gen BN Kaul .... I have the moral courage to call out the stupidity of the present GoI when I see it happening.

Recall that I did call out their bold decision to let Army take a lead in August and I did say that, paraphrasing:

"For the first time post independence, the army has been told to prepare a response. On being asked for the political directives as always, the GoI asked the army to put up military options and the GoI will align the political imperatives with those."

I can't really counter you on item by item but strategical change in direction comes with time and not overnight or couple of years. I think we are seeing real changes in attitude like building border roads, connecting north east by rail and so on. We all saw how Trump lost it while he actually won the election under benefit of doubt because he was idiot to not work the system with cleverness. Passive culture was ingrained over 100s of years and 60 years after independence, so look for signs more than every match. We are going to win some and lose some but to me changing the mood of nation and not just talking but also physical signs to walk the talk....I think we can all agree that DRDO, HAL and others have new momentum now.

 

[Deadtrap]

@Deadtrap can you post the planet labs image of March of Galwan?



Ban was lifted last year. We fired bullets and Carl Gustaf in Rezang La to celebrate it.

That’s the best I could get from 26th March. Sharpened it a bit.
Whole Galwan Valley from Left to right.

 

[Hellfire]

OT but do you think Jaishankar will be sacked?
especially after this
What was this all about then?


View attachment 86244

Nope.

EAM is doing precisely what he has been instructed to do by the PM.

Makes no sense.

As for why he is meeting, politics is art of possibility.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

2002.

Indian Army, IAF were in a different league at the time by then ..... we had domination of Airspace - against both PAF and PLAAF.

And Mr Vajpayee recognized Tibet as part of China that day - formally.

If Mr Modi "inherited" a depleted Airforce, then the actions of his Govt to address the issue at the pace that he has, has certainly not been in consonance with a policy that would be aimed at addressing the issue.

Delay in execution of contracts is significant.

7th year of his GoI rule - still struggling to make up numbers to replace Mig-21s which should have been out by now, not even bothering about other aircrafts which have been phased out. That is a pretty long time. Mr Nehru inherited a much weaker and poorer nation in 1947, he lost a war to China - yet is blamed for not doing anything, retrospectively.

So when Mr Modi can blame Mr Nehru for not having the foresight of a leader (with his own insight being retrospective), why should Mr Modi not use the same standard on himself?

Assuredly, the only reason China has not initiated a military conflict right now is because it has more to gain by avoiding a military conflict with India while engaging in a carrot and stick policy, than in initiating a conflict with India.

I understand my words would not be liked by many - does not matter. Not going to do a Lt Gen BN Kaul .... I have the moral courage to call out the stupidity of the present GoI when I see it happening.

Recall that I did call out their bold decision to let Army take a lead in August and I did say that, paraphrasing:

"For the first time post independence, the army has been told to prepare a response. On being asked for the political directives as always, the GoI asked the army to put up military options and the GoI will align the political imperatives with those."

I like this post, no it doesn't upset me .
Truth is truth, hiding from truth will weaken our minds.