IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

[Navnit Kundu]

Does it look desperate if I want to believe that the leak is all a misinformation campaign by RAW?

There are two things here, one is the leak and other is the massive massive coverage that the leaks are being given in the media. The latter seems to be politically motivated.

Seems more like the American military industrial complex trying to sabotage their competition. See the repercussion of this leak, France is facing a backlash from all customers. OR it could also be Chinese intel which wants to dissuade India from buying the submarines by making it less lucrative now that details seem to have leaked, OR it could be Japan intel who had lost the massive Australian submarine contract to France.


Australia Warns Shipbuilder DCNS After Massive Security Leak

This leak comes in some biggest leaks of indian navy. And this is not from india. We cannot do anything about it.

- @harsh

Man who 'stole' Scorpene papers was fired while working in India

 

[rishivashista13]

Does it look desperate if I want to believe that the leak is all a misinformation campaign by RAW?

Not possible .
Australia is showing files .
India is increasing pressure on France .
France is under high worldwide pressure.
Enquiry and investigation of whole event is going on in France as well as in India .
Australia and France deal of submarines is also affected .
It is sure that Something very serious has happened .

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[Adioz]

Seems more like the American military industrial complex trying to sabotage their competition. See the repercussion of this leak, France is facing a backlash from all customers. OR it could also be Chinese intel which wants to dissuade India from buying the submarines by making it less lucrative now that details seem to have leaked, OR it could be Japan intel who had lost the massive Australian submarine contract to France.

I can buy the American angle.
IMHO,Chinese wont rely on HUMINT, hacking is better alternative for them.
Japan intel agencies cant be behind the leak (it occurred way before they lost the australian deal), but would definitely try to influence media coverage.
A scary thought would be if Russians did it to sabotage competition. But I guess Putin is not that paranoid.

Not possible .
Australia is showing files .
India is increasing pressure on France .
France is under high worldwide pressure.
Enquiry and investigation of whole event is going on in France as well as in India .
Australia and France deal of submarines is also affected .
It is sure that Something very serious has happened .

C'mon man let me dream...............reality is scary.

 

[hit&run]

I don't know if being alarmist is going to help us anyway. I be rather more skeptic of disproportionate rhetoric that media especially NDTV is up to now. When journalist like Nidhi Razdan runs a debate on a issue it means everything is alright.

Having said that the solution to avoid such leak is India should bank all the experience and start building her own hunter subs.

A time bound effort investing in state of the art shipyards is need of the hour.

 

[airtel]

by the way scorpenes submarines are also operated by Maleshia , brazil chili Etc ....they can easily pass the information to Chinies & pakis .........

french are very opportunistic people they sold Augusta 90b to pakis and they are ready to sell these scorpene submarines too .........

Kilo class submarines are not good ................

we should either Go for dolphine or soryu class submarines ...............

i dont understand why DRDO is not building these conventional submarines in India ?? we can build nuclear submarines so why not conventional submarines too ??

 

[rishivashista13]

What can be the purpose of this leak , decreasing Indian naval progress , affecting Australian submarine deal , affecting Indian France relations , stopping DCNS , or many things else ?



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[Indx TechStyle]

Man who 'stole' Scorpene papers was fired while working in India

A top defence analyst allayed fears that it could compromise the security of the combat vessels. Like in the previous case, the newspaper blacked out the details which it felt would compromise India's security interests.

NEW DELHI/PARIS: 'The Australian' newspaper uploaded on Thursday a fresh tranche of leaked documents relating to information about the operating instructions of the underwater warfare system of the six Scorpene submarines being built by French firm DCNS for the Indian Navy.

A top defence analyst allayed fears that it could compromise the security of the combat vessels. Like in the previous case, the newspaper blacked out the details which it felt would compromise India's security interests. However, the new set of documents, with the Indian Navy insignia on it and marked "Restricted Scorpene India", gave details of the sonar system, which is used to gather intelligence underwater. They revealed a wide range of technical specifications of the sonars and at what degree and frequency they would function.

The documents detailed the "Operating Instruction Manual", which talked of how to select a target for weapon firing and weapon configuration selection, among others. Though the Navy has not yet officially reacted to the release of the new documents, sources maintained that they did not compromise national security. They said the same information was on "many naval defence websites".

The paper said it has been told that the secret data was removed from DCNS -35% owned by Thales and 65% by the French government -by a former sub-contractor in 2011 and taken to a private company in Southeast Asia before being passed on to a branch of that company in a second Southeast Asian na tion. A disk containing the data was then posted in regular mail to a company in Australia. At this stage it is not thought that the leak came from India.

The sub-contractor was fired while providing training in India, the source said.

India's defence ministry said that it saw no immediate security risk and the French government said the information in the documents only showed how the submarines operate and did not compromise their security.

"The Indians can object to the fact that these documents show the Pakistanis how to maintain their submarines and that's annoying, but it doesn't tell the Pakistanis how to detect an Indian ship, or how we build a submarine in France. Not at all," the source said.

READ MORE:
Scorpene Submarines|Australia

 

[harsh]

There are two things here, one is the leak and other is the massive massive coverage that the leaks are being given in the media. The latter seems to be politically motivated.

Seems more like the American military industrial complex trying to sabotage their competition. See the repercussion of this leak, France is facing a backlash from all customers.

ofcourse that franch subcontractor is working in india but he is not appointed by us.
he is from franch side.
and by the way some information about mistral LPD and franch frigate also leaked.
so franch are to blame no one from our side is involved

 

[rishivashista13]

But , why will France leak the details , if it has no benifit for them ?
They are not gaining anything .
Some one else is there behind this leak who is gaining something big .

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[Rahul Singh]

I am very very sure this is a China funded paki managed operation. Not to mention after PLAN's increased interest in IOR who had more to gain from these information?

These Scorpens were to become formidable aggressor against any PLAN maneuvering in IOR, specially in strait of Hormuz area. And now even before first is operational it's strength has been compromised. I just hope its acoustic signature (even a broad figure) has not been leaked as well. Communication and targeting systems can always be replaced. We can keep Scorpens useful but France must compensate for our loss. For start as bargain we must ask DCNS about something obvious on Agostas. Further order should entirely depend on French flexibility including that of Rafale.

 

[Darth Malgus]

I spoke to one of my uncles who retired from Intelligence about the whole scorpene leak(my dad was in intelligence). He told there is nothing to be worried about, and nothing important was disclosed. When i asked him about the leak. He told me the information in the leak itself was not confidential and such data was commonly circulated when it came to purchasing equipment.

 

[hit&run]

I am very very sure this is a China funded paki managed operation. Not to mention after PLAN's increased interest in IOR who had more to gain from these information?

These Scorpens were to become formidable aggressor against any PLAN maneuvering in IOR, specially in strait of Hormuz area. And now even before first is operational it's strength has been compromised. I just hope its acoustic signature (even a broad figure) has not been leaked as well. Communication and targeting systems can always be replaced. We can keep Scorpens useful but France must compensate for our loss. For start as bargain we must ask DCNS about something obvious on Agostas. Further order should entirely depend on French flexibility including that of Rafale.

Behind every sabotage or espionage against India there are 5 Americans 4 Chinese 3 Russians 2 Pakistanis and 1 other. While Americans may have been going down in numbers and Russian are there just to keep hold of the market, the Chinese are upping the ante with 2 additional Pakistanis for the reasons you have mentioned.

Many Indians go to Pakistani forums and open their mouths like yawning hippopotamus, especially those who have some kind of insider's contacts.

Also it disgusts me when Indian forces and MoD declare inductions of such systems with great fanfare.

Indians should learn to shut their mouth and stop having small nation syndrome with dictatorial control over such strategic projects.

 

[Darth Malgus]

Behind every sabotage or espionage against India there are 5 Americans 4 Chinese 3 Russians 2 Pakistanis and 1 other. While Americans may have been going down in numbers and Russian are there just to keep hold of the market, the Chinese are upping the ante with 2 additional Pakistanis for the reasons you have mentioned.

Many Indians go to Pakistani forums and open their mouths like yawning hippopotamus, especially those who have some kind of insider's contacts.

Also it disgusts me when Indian forces and MoD declare inductions of such systems with great fanfare.

Indians should learn to shut their mouth and stop having small nation syndrome with dictatorial control over such strategic projects.

Fanfare or not, unless you want to make the procurement an absolute secret. People are going to know about it. IT makes no difference what so ever. If the procurement is a secret, people are going to complain about a lack of inductions. So lets just calm down and not get too emotional over this. SO far both MOD and French have claimed the leak is nothing serious and if it is otherwise, we have no way of knowing other than just waiting to see what happens...

 

[BON PLAN]

by the way scorpenes submarines are also operated by Maleshia , brazil chili Etc ....they can easily pass the information to Chinies & pakis .........

french are very opportunistic people they sold Augusta 90b to pakis and they are ready to sell these scorpene submarines too .........

Kilo class submarines are not good ................

we should either Go for dolphine or soryu class submarines ...............

i dont understand why DRDO is not building these conventional submarines in India ?? we can build nuclear submarines so why not conventional submarines too ??

Russia sold SU27 to China and SU30 to India. USA sold Apache to India and Cobra to pakistan. So they are very opportunistic people.
aren't they ?

 

[BON PLAN]

The F21 is a good choice... it combines the best of Italian technology (WASS for motor and batteries) and German (Atlas Elektronik for the seeker) and French (Thales ECM).
WASS has sold out completely to the French the engine technology and battery when it is moved to the new polymer batteries, so there is no involvement of Leonardo - Finmeccanica in the F21.

If the French keep the cost down by not taking into account the 2.5 billion euro of development is the probable that the final price is only about 50 milions bigger of the old Black Shark torpedos plus few milions for the integration.

are you sure of that? I don't think so.
For me the propulsion part is German, batteries french (Saft) and the seeker is full french (Thales).

At the beginning, seeing the success of Mu90, this heavy torpedo must be an Italio french torp (with Italian parts), but it failed.

 

[BON PLAN]

Do our scorpene submarines have AIP propulsion?
If not tell me the range and endurance without AIP?

2 of the 6 will have it .

 

[BON PLAN]

Firstly, there are pathetic delays in defense acquisitions and then this. This must be biggest setback in our Naval History. Now these scorpenes are nothing more than scrap metal, if the frequency data has leaked.

 

[BON PLAN]

Wow! French could not guard top secret records and keep check of their employees but oh sure they can track who did it! they are just so damn efficient at pinpointing the cause of disaster, waayyy more than preventing a disaster.. Heck! they even keep bar codes for every disaster, just scan the "scorpene scam" bar code and you will find its scam start date, end date, trace its handlers etc

And of course US can keep secrets.

of course.

but :
Manhattan project.
Leak to russia on sub propeller machine tool (since the russian subs are more quieter...)
F22 and F35 drawings stolen by China.

 

[BON PLAN]

France is under a lot of pressure, labor protests are going on, approval of the President is an all time low, people are demoralized due to terror attacks, the President is desperate to look some redeeming deal to serve as a face saver to end his tenure

It's not like that Bro. I'm french and were in Paris yesterday night I can assure you the bars and restaurants were full, a lot of people in front of the Notre Dame cathedral, a lot of chineese people everywere....

France will not have a knee on the ground if you don't inked Rafale deal ! It's 7 billions € vs a GDP of more than 2000 billions.

I hope a strong indian - france relation ship, but we are not in a hurry.

 

[airtel]

Russia sold SU27 to China and SU30 to India. USA sold Apache to India and Cobra to pakistan. So they are very opportunistic people.
aren't they ?

yes they are ...........& Indians should also become selfish & opportunistic ..........................BTW my comment was reply to this emotional soul >>> INDIANS SHOULD AVOID THIS TYPE OF MENTALITY >>

Agree with pretty much what you say. But I would like the message be that we stood by France even with such a "attack" on their industry, prestige and them. But it must be done conclusively and Rafeal deal is in the sweet spot ... We must extract good TOT and IPR transfer and basic alliance with France from such ...

I would like that to be there because I feel we need such relationships ... Especially with the door wide open for India to nuke test again.

Also we need to talk to France what they want to be in future. We are seeing France surrendering too much and too essily. This also has a big dynamic of Germany ... Who will lead Europe Union (whatever its subsidiary and separations). There is also history of Israel and France that we must remind France. France is going to get a lot of spotlight and its current events not helping. Because message is being clear France from Mistral to Rafeal to Scorpene is being dictated and changed by others and too much ... But why !! Like you have rightly pointed out the discussions on this is mostly "entertainment" without good analysis. When we go get good analysis its restricted ...