Improving Effectiveness of the Indian Army

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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We Need Re organize And Revamp Military Structure from Scratch of this British Era organization

That includes Training,Motto ,operational strategy ,recruitment process ,Size
Roles etc

If We monetize Assets of Army And Land We can generate heavy revenue

All you need To dedicate 5 billion $ for R&D of Infantryman & AFSOD from budget each year(Excluding salaries & Pension cost)
Exactly and i am not asking for next generation NVG worth a lot of money.

I want standard issue proper boots,water bottles,rucksack,bpjs,com,optics,uniform.

The basics...someone is putting his life on the line.we can do this much.
 

WARREN SS

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the IA Armored Corps is authorized to maintain a fleet of ~4500 tanks of various types.
3000 tanks More than Enough

2000 T-90 +1000 Heavy category like Arjun M2 or FMBT's

IFV's Will compensate the other roles

Rather Focus On new Gen Shoulder Mounted ATGM's And MBRL's
 
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Bhadra

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We Need Re organize And Revamp Military Structure from Scratch of this British Era organization

That includes Training,Motto ,operational strategy ,recruitment process ,Size
Roles etc

If We monetize Assets of Army And Land We can generate heavy revenue

All you need To dedicate 5 billion $ for R&D of Infantryman & AFSOD from budget each year(Excluding salaries & Pension cost)
British Era Organisations :

Structure of the Govt - the President, Parliament, Executive and Judiciary = First revamp that.

Exploitation Bureaucracy meant only to Loot and Extract - Mai Baap Sarkar Model - urgently revamp that.

Thanedari and Dundamar - Golithok, anti people, extraction expert , Supari Killer Police system - immediately revamp that and make a modern Police Forces that is not chased away by a few women..

Restructure and revamp all Universities and Education system which has degenerated into a reservationist domain of demerit ..

Revamp the economic system to meet the present Day conditions...

Revamp Strategic Decision making structure ....
Restore Village Panchayati Raj system ....

Those are the main items that effect the life of people....
mod edit: removed flamebaits
 

ArgonPrime

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3000 tanks More than Enough

2000 T-90 +1000 Heavy category like Arjun M2 or FMBT's

IFV's Will compensate the other roles
Given the present threat perception (if we leave out PLA for the time being assuming they do not try to send a part of their armored forces to Pakistan), that might work. But I was strictly limiting myself to the authorized force level and not throw in my two cents so as not to ruffle any more feathers than I already have.
Rather Focus On new Gen Shoulder Mounted ATGM's And MBRL's
True, especially MBRLs with censor fused dual-purpose sub munitions.
 
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Bhadra

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3000 tanks More than Enough

2000 T-90 +1000 Heavy category like Arjun M2 or FMBT's

IFV's Will compensate the other roles

Rather Focus On new Gen Shoulder Mounted ATGM's And MBRL's
What is the difference between a ship hull and a tank hull ??
 

WARREN SS

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What is the difference between a ship hull and a tank hull ??
Doesn't matter
Both Can be Penetrated Today one by Supersonic CM's cost 0.5 million $

other With Few thousand $ Shoulder Mounted ATGM's

You can take out A battalion of Armour brigade With 1-2 CBU-105 sensor Fused cluster Munition
 

WARREN SS

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British Era Organisations :

Structure of the Govt - the President, Parliament, Executive and Judiciary = First revamp that.

Exploitation Bureaucracy meant only to Loot and Extract - Mai Baap Sarkar Model - urgently revamp that.

Thanedari and Dundamar - Golithok, anti people, extraction expert , Supari Killer Police system - immediately revamp that and make a modern Police Forces that is not chased away by a few women..

Restructure and revamp all Universities and Education system which has degenerated into a reservationist domain of demerit ..

Revamp the economic system to meet the present Day conditions...

Revamp Strategic Decision making structure ....
Restore Village Panchayati Raj system ....

Those are the main items that effect the life of people....
mod edit: removed flamebaits
Again the Shifting the blame And goalpost's

Why not change starts from Army first itself

Army Is responsible for its competence rather scapegoating on other Dis-functional organization
 

ArgonPrime

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What is the difference between a ship hull and a tank hull ??
That's a nice one but you would agree that the army could do with a couple of hundred fewer number of tanks, all things considered, right? I mean just take a look at the state of the Pakistani armored corps. It's pathetic, to say the least. Now, I agree, that ideally the budget should definitely be increased to over 2% of the GDP but since you and I both know that this ain't be happening any time soon (if at all ever), there is no other option but to optimize the available fund as per the need and to increase the capability of one arm, you have cut back a little on the other. Which other option is there??
 

aditya10r

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@mods

I think we already have a thread like this.
I dont recall what exactly thats called but it is like Indian army better infantry or something.

______________________________________________

Merge it with that.
 

Bhadra

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That's a nice one but you would agree that the army could do with a couple of hundred fewer number of tanks, all things considered, right? I mean just take a look at the state of the Pakistani armored corps. It's pathetic, to say the least. Now, I agree, that ideally the budget should definitely be increased to over 2% of the GDP but since you and I both know that this ain't be happening any time soon (if at all ever), there is no other option but to optimize the available fund as per the need and to increase the capability of one arm, you have cut back a little on the other. Which other option is there??
There are a number of generals as also civilians who are experts in deciding the numbers .... not a single tank can be increased or decreased without justification and approval. So let us leave ORBATS and Force Structuring to them.

The number game starts from debate on necessity of number of tanks per troop and then goes up to the numbers of tanks per division. Number game is very important in tank to tank battles when tanks are considered as ultimate tank busters. Victory would lie in superiority of maneuver and number of tanks at the Final objective would decide the victory.

However, how best to utilise very limited money towards meeting requirement of various Arms of the Army and optimise utilisation definitely is important.

In Indian Army, there have been four successive tank replacements but only one gun / how and soldiers rifle replacement so far. That is a matter of fact and is not a minor issue. Indian Army Infantry does need a massive modernisation but the issue should not be settled by putting tank vs Infantry soldiers Vs Guns. All need attention.

So far it is the sophistry of Terrorist weaponry and equipment that has been forcing limited attempts at Infantry modernisation in very piecemeal and local manner. Other efforts so far have been victims of DODOs / OFV and Foreign Agents greed who have acquired great expertise in obstructing any procurements but not making any thing worth acquiring. I suspect greater role of ISI in that obstructive system.
 
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ArgonPrime

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There are a number of generals as also civilians who are experts in deciding the numbers .... not a single tank can be increased or decreased without justification and approval. So let us leave ORBATS and Force Structuring to them.

The number game starts from debate on necessity of number of tanks per troop and then goes up to the numbers of tanks per disions. Number game is very important in tank to tank battles when tanks are considered as ultimate tank busters. Victory would lie in superiority of maneuver and number of tanks at the Final objective would decide the victory.

However, how best to utilise very limited money towards meeting requirement of various Arms of the Army and optimise utilisation definitely is important.

In Indian Army, there have been four successive tank replacements but only one gun / how and soldiers rifle replacement so far. That is a matter of fact and is not a minor issue. Indian Army Infantry does need a massive modernisation but the issue should not be settled by putting tank vs Infantry soldiers Vs Guns. All need attention.
True. But given the state of our arch-nemesis, 200 is practically nothing. In the past, they had either clear edge over us (65) or near parity (71 western front) and still managed to got their asses delivered to them on golden platters on almost every occasion they faced off with Indian armor barring one defensive battle they fought at Chawinda, which they can never stop gloating about while making up such impossible claims like killing tens of thousands of Indian soldiers and destroying hundreds of Indian tanks by a token force and whatnot.

They couldn't do jack shit when they enjoyed such overwhelming advantage over the IA (if Osprey is to be believed which sources its information from US Congressional archives among others, the Pakistanis had been supplied with over 500 M47 and 48 series Patton tanks while India had only 188 Centurion MkIXs and even their older Shermans were equipped with 76mm high-velocity guns which could fire HVAP munitions) and a relatively peaceful western border, you really believe they could do any better today when the odds have completely changed in our favor??!! I mean forget about the numbers, they don't even have enough POL reserves to keep their machines running for a week and even that is probably a stretch.
 

Assassin 2.0

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Pakistani know that they cannot counter india in conventional warfare that's why they play nuclear bluff every now and then and we have called out this nuclear bluff recently twice.
But what india needs is rapid mobilization to slice Pakistan and capture more and more land to counter this they have developed tackle this they have developed Tactical nukes which is idiotic at best and in night tank regiments moving forward further bring disadvantage to them.
I believe instead of just filling tanks and tanks we should update our older generation T-90 tanks with new sensors and equipment + induct some 300-400 Arjun tanks to support our local developments.
Yes anti tank missile do come play against tanks but their are several systems to counter it. A manpad can kill a Apache helicopter but that doesn't make Apache useless.
Tank warfare requires strategy india destroyed the whole Pakistani regiment in assal utar with just tanks damged and Pakistan lost 100 tanks. If our tank strategy in next war also plays nicely it will be huge plus on our side.
I think india is full utilizing it's tanks T-72 were inducted in 1970s and according to Rstv interview general said they will serve till 2040.
The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) on Tuesday approved procurement of 1,000 engines for fitment in T-72 tanks of the Army at an approximate cost of over Rs 2,300 crore, the Defence Ministry said in a statement. The DAC also approved several amendment to Defence Procurement Procedure(DPP)-16, the manual governing such procurement.
 

ArgonPrime

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Pakistani know that they cannot counter india in conventional warfare that's why they play nuclear bluff every now and then and we have called out this nuclear bluff recently twice.
But what india needs is rapid mobilization to slice Pakistan and capture more and more land to counter this they have developed tackle this they have developed Tactical nukes which is idiotic at best and in night tank regiments moving forward further bring disadvantage to them.
You're talking about maneuver warfare but our interior lines of communications have to be expanded and improved before that.
I believe instead of just filling tanks and tanks we should update our older generation T-90 tanks with new sensors and equipment + induct some 300-400 Arjun tanks to support our local developments.
Not just the sensors, the ammunition upgrade is overdue as well. And as for Arjun, it's still handicapped by a plethora of design deficiencies which they failed to rectify in the newer MkIA variant. Sorry to say this but in its present form, it's not fit for wide-scale adoption, not without some deep upgrades/ complete overhaul of several design features to rectify the flaws.
Yes anti tank missile do come play against tanks but their are several systems to counter it. A manpad can kill a Apache helicopter but that doesn't make Apache useless.
Very true indeed. A tank is the best counter to another tank. I mean sure, you can disable/destroy a tank with an ATGM but it will be cost-prohibitive since an APFSDS round fired from a tank comes several-fold cheaper than even an older generation ATGM.
Tank warfare requires strategy india destroyed the whole Pakistani regiment in assal utar with just tanks damged and Pakistan lost 100 tanks. If our tank strategy in next war also plays nicely it will be huge plus on our side.
Yeah, actually make that two and a half regiments.
 

ArgonPrime

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How superior Is T90 bhisma is if we compare it with VT-4?
Difficult to say, really since we know almost nothing of this VT-4 except for the fact that it's a deep upgrade of the Type 90-II MBT which is basically an Al Khalid with a Chinese engine, gearbox and transmission assembly.
 

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