Sancho
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Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest
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What does Saab have to offer in the way of AESA technology for a fighter? The Gripen NG uses a radar made by Selex which is a subsidiary of the banned Leonardo.
Sancho
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Saab is in no position to offer fighter class AESA radars without the involvement of Selex. Usually it wouldn't be an issue but the Leonardo ban prohibits the sale of both Gripen NG and a Selex equipped Eurofighter to the Indian market. The only AESA radars that can be used are Uttam, Thales, Raytheon or Elta. This ban is enforced to prohibit the rampant corruption displayed by Leonardo in the VVIP Helicopter scandal. The only business Leonardo can conduct is the support of contracts issued prior to the blacklisting.
Sancho
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First of all, if you have checked their proposal for LCA MK1A properly, you would have seen that they don't propose the Selex parts in it, but offer a jointly developed AESA with their own GaN modules and the ES-05 back end, that will be used on the Raven AESA anyway.
So in case Selex will remain banned, that's possibly the solution they aim for.
Secondly, there is still the option of EL2052, which they had proposed at the beginning in the MMRCA too, but by then that radar was not available, while it now is even ordered for Jags and the most likely choice for LCA MK1A as well. That would be the most cost-effective choice for India.
And last but not least, the biggest advantage of their AESA proposals is GaN based EW, which puts them in a unique position to be the only source for such level EWs. And if we play our cards right now, not only LCA MK1A, but also MKIs and Gripen E could benefit from high performance EW and commonality.
So when it comes purely on AESA technology, there is no better choice than Saab today for India and apparently also for S. Korea.
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This is the problem. Development means that they don't have it. Why should India spend its resource to develop AESA radar jointly with SAAB so that SAAB gets a profit?
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This is my problem- they are JOINTLY DEVELOPING, not have a developed radar.
Let us compare fighter AESA radar status of India and SAAB:
GaAs AESA: India - UTTAM; SAAB - Nil
GaN AESA: India - Developing (mostly with Israel); SAAB - Begging for joint development with Korea, India
Why should India buy Gripen in such case?
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Exactly right, they don't have it because Selex has it and the only way they can produce their product is with a blacklisted company.
Sancho
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Of course that's a problem for "you", because you clearly have double standards here.
On the one hand you claim that the Kaveri Snecma co-development (that was offered for the same reasons, because Snecma didn't had a suitable off the shelf engine available for LCA) is great for us, although even IAF has doubts about the final thrust and it's suitability for LCA, let alone a future AMCA.
But on the other hand you claim, that a GaN AESA radar co development would only benefit Saab, although the most logical way for such a project, would be to use the Uttam antenna as the base and combine it with available Saab GaN modules and the back end of the ES-05 radar. That would result in improving Uttam AESA for LCA with detection ranges comparable to larger MMRCA radars.
The even better solution would be, to co-develop the radar in a larger diameter, for the use in Gripen E, AMCA and if approved by Russia, even in FGFA. That are the applications, where an indigenous GaN AESA radar, would give the most benefits to India, not to mention that we could couple it with a joint GaN EW suite as well.
If we play our cards right here and gain credible access to the GaN tech, this is a game changer for the country and indigenous radar or EW developments, similar to the co-development of Brahmos with Russia, or Barak 8 with Israel.
In all 3 cases we get access to technologies, that no one else offers us and that saves us years in development time.
I still would go with the Israeli radar for LCA MK1A, for fast integration and cost-effectiveness reasons, but getting a GaN edge at this point of time, would be a crucial advantage, that can put us technologically ahead of China again!
Sancho
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You need to inform yourself properly, before you can make a comparison and not just claim things.
First GaAs AESA based AWACS radar by Saab flew in 1994
First GaN AESA based radar by Saab was developed in 2014
=> http://aviationweek.com/blog/thats-what-i-call-confidence
http://saab.com/land/istar/multi-role-surveillance-system/giraffe-4a/
First GaN AESA based AWACS radar by Saab is already in production
=> https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...aunches-globaleye-swing-role-surveillance?amp
http://saab.com/air/airborne-solutions/airborne-surveillance/globaleye/
First GaN AESA based RWR and jammer by Saab:
=> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ighter-jet-contest.78028/page-93#post-1382014
First GaAs AESA based AWACS radar by DRDO flew in 2011
GaN development started in 2017
=> http://indianexpress.com/article/ed...to-produce-wonder-nano-material-4741048/lite/
Next DRDO AWACS won't be available before 2025 and with the state of our GaN developments, it's not clear if similar technology will be available in time for that AWACS.
So taking help from an experience company, that already has GaN technology and is willing to co-develop applications, is the best choice for S. Korea and should be the way for us as well.
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Do you know the status of Indian GaN technology
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Sancho
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Nah in Defence sector, have they moved to X band, from C and L
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lcafanboy
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Aerospace expert Vivek Lall joins Lockheed Martin
https://www.google.co.in/amp/m.indi...vek-lall-joins-lockheed-martin/1/1122439.html
https://www.google.co.in/amp/m.indi...vek-lall-joins-lockheed-martin/1/1122439.html
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Lobbing presstitutes......................
lcafanboy
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The desi LCA is defence ministry’s low-hanging fruit and it needs to be plucked now
MANU PUBBY 5 January, 2018
A Tejas LCA lands at Yelahanka while an indigenous light combat helicopter waits to take off | MoD file photo
A quick turnaround of the Tejas light fighter is on the cards but the government needs to step up.
It has been loved, hated, coveted, admonished and even ridiculed but for India’s homegrown combat aircraft, right now might just be the right time. The light combat aircraft (LCA) is the defence ministry’s lowest hanging fruit on the ‘Make in India’ path but it needs one final big push for which the government would need to step up soon.
Two things stand in the way of the fighter fully taking off as a potent symbol of the Indian defence industry – a strange interference by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) itself and a painful obsession of the air force to diversify its fleet even further with a new, foreign origin single-engine fighter.
For a development programme that was sanctioned in 1983, the light fighter has come a long way. After limping its way through the 2000s, the single-engine jet has shown promise of late, maybe not as a cutting edge, globally competitive fighter but certainly as a platform that will enhance India’s combat capabilities within the region.
The desi fighter project is also one of the few things that the UPA and BJP governments have had a similar view on — the defence ministry under both regimes, driven by the person at the top, has been generous to overrule objections of the air force to give the Tejas time to mature.
A running battle between the air force, which insisted that the fighter is not good enough, and the defence ministry — batting for a homegrown jet to be accepted — came to head in 2015. Peace was brokered by then defence minister Manohar Parrikar on four simple terms.
That the air force would place orders for five squadrons of the fighter jet provided that four parameters are met — a world-class Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar to track targets, a long-range beyond visual range missile, air-to-air refuelling capability to enhance range and modern electronic warfare capability for survivability of the aircraft.
The deal was simple — meet these four requirements and the air force would have no choice but to place orders, giving the jet a fighting chance of proving its combat capability.
While progress has been made at various levels on integrating these four enhancements, DRDO itself, which has been deeply involved in the project, has come as a possible hindrance. Scientists have placed on record strong protests over efforts by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to purchase new radars and electronic warfare systems from the global market. The logic? That these systems can be developed in India if the funds are allocated.
Given the tight timeline in which they need to be integrated and proven on board the Tejas — by 2020 — the best case scenario is to purchase the radars and systems from the global market and replace them subsequently with a homegrown solution when it matures.
However, with DRDO’s objections on record, it would take a strong stand by the defence ministry to do the right thing and honour the deal brokered in 2015. The question to be answered is whether the defence ministry is willing to bite the bullet to get the LCA truly off the ground.
The other challenge for this true ‘Make in India’ programme is the new-found foreign origin single-engine fighter jet obsession of the air force. The air force wants to buy several new fighter jets in the coming years.
The Rafale order has already been placed with a possibility of many more, a fifth generation fighter from Russia is on the cards but to further make up for numbers, the air force has moved a proposal for 118 new fighters — to be assembled in India. By specifying that it only wants jets with a single engine, only two jets in the world meet this requirement — the American F-16 and the Swedish Gripen.
By going with this ‘single engine’ formula, the air force is, in fact, contradicting itself. Years ago, when it started the now infamous Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition, it was specified that the capabilities of a fighter would be judged — speed, range, weapon delivery, survivability etc — and not the number of engines it is equipped with. This gave way to the selection of the Eurofigher and Rafale as technically compatible fighters to Indian requirements, rejecting both the F-16 and the Gripen.
The fact is that a third single-engine fighter jet choice is now available for India — an improved, spruced up LCA that will be the precursor to a full range of homegrown combat aircraft.
And this might well be the most viable option.
https://theprint.in/2018/01/05/the-...hanging-fruit-and-it-needs-to-be-plucked-now/
MANU PUBBY 5 January, 2018
A quick turnaround of the Tejas light fighter is on the cards but the government needs to step up.
It has been loved, hated, coveted, admonished and even ridiculed but for India’s homegrown combat aircraft, right now might just be the right time. The light combat aircraft (LCA) is the defence ministry’s lowest hanging fruit on the ‘Make in India’ path but it needs one final big push for which the government would need to step up soon.
Two things stand in the way of the fighter fully taking off as a potent symbol of the Indian defence industry – a strange interference by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) itself and a painful obsession of the air force to diversify its fleet even further with a new, foreign origin single-engine fighter.
For a development programme that was sanctioned in 1983, the light fighter has come a long way. After limping its way through the 2000s, the single-engine jet has shown promise of late, maybe not as a cutting edge, globally competitive fighter but certainly as a platform that will enhance India’s combat capabilities within the region.
The desi fighter project is also one of the few things that the UPA and BJP governments have had a similar view on — the defence ministry under both regimes, driven by the person at the top, has been generous to overrule objections of the air force to give the Tejas time to mature.
A running battle between the air force, which insisted that the fighter is not good enough, and the defence ministry — batting for a homegrown jet to be accepted — came to head in 2015. Peace was brokered by then defence minister Manohar Parrikar on four simple terms.
That the air force would place orders for five squadrons of the fighter jet provided that four parameters are met — a world-class Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar to track targets, a long-range beyond visual range missile, air-to-air refuelling capability to enhance range and modern electronic warfare capability for survivability of the aircraft.
The deal was simple — meet these four requirements and the air force would have no choice but to place orders, giving the jet a fighting chance of proving its combat capability.
While progress has been made at various levels on integrating these four enhancements, DRDO itself, which has been deeply involved in the project, has come as a possible hindrance. Scientists have placed on record strong protests over efforts by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to purchase new radars and electronic warfare systems from the global market. The logic? That these systems can be developed in India if the funds are allocated.
Given the tight timeline in which they need to be integrated and proven on board the Tejas — by 2020 — the best case scenario is to purchase the radars and systems from the global market and replace them subsequently with a homegrown solution when it matures.
However, with DRDO’s objections on record, it would take a strong stand by the defence ministry to do the right thing and honour the deal brokered in 2015. The question to be answered is whether the defence ministry is willing to bite the bullet to get the LCA truly off the ground.
The other challenge for this true ‘Make in India’ programme is the new-found foreign origin single-engine fighter jet obsession of the air force. The air force wants to buy several new fighter jets in the coming years.
The Rafale order has already been placed with a possibility of many more, a fifth generation fighter from Russia is on the cards but to further make up for numbers, the air force has moved a proposal for 118 new fighters — to be assembled in India. By specifying that it only wants jets with a single engine, only two jets in the world meet this requirement — the American F-16 and the Swedish Gripen.
By going with this ‘single engine’ formula, the air force is, in fact, contradicting itself. Years ago, when it started the now infamous Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition, it was specified that the capabilities of a fighter would be judged — speed, range, weapon delivery, survivability etc — and not the number of engines it is equipped with. This gave way to the selection of the Eurofigher and Rafale as technically compatible fighters to Indian requirements, rejecting both the F-16 and the Gripen.
The fact is that a third single-engine fighter jet choice is now available for India — an improved, spruced up LCA that will be the precursor to a full range of homegrown combat aircraft.
And this might well be the most viable option.
https://theprint.in/2018/01/05/the-...hanging-fruit-and-it-needs-to-be-plucked-now/
WolfPack86
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F-16 deal is possible only if USA agreed to transfer critical technologies.
Pandeyji
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You have to give it to desi journos. They leave no chance to snipe at Tejas. No Manubhai, Tejas has no more test to pass; it is becoming an integral part of Airforce just like Mig21. If there is anything with insecure future it is SEFThe desi LCA is defence ministry’s low-hanging fruit and it needs to be plucked now
MANU PUBBY 5 January, 2018
A Tejas LCA lands at Yelahanka while an indigenous light combat helicopter waits to take off | MoD file photo
A quick turnaround of the Tejas light fighter is on the cards but the government needs to step up.
It has been loved, hated, coveted, admonished and even ridiculed but for India’s homegrown combat aircraft, right now might just be the right time. The light combat aircraft (LCA) is the defence ministry’s lowest hanging fruit on the ‘Make in India’ path but it needs one final big push for which the government would need to step up soon.
Two things stand in the way of the fighter fully taking off as a potent symbol of the Indian defence industry – a strange interference by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) itself and a painful obsession of the air force to diversify its fleet even further with a new, foreign origin single-engine fighter.
For a development programme that was sanctioned in 1983, the light fighter has come a long way. After limping its way through the 2000s, the single-engine jet has shown promise of late, maybe not as a cutting edge, globally competitive fighter but certainly as a platform that will enhance India’s combat capabilities within the region.
The desi fighter project is also one of the few things that the UPA and BJP governments have had a similar view on — the defence ministry under both regimes, driven by the person at the top, has been generous to overrule objections of the air force to give the Tejas time to mature.
A running battle between the air force, which insisted that the fighter is not good enough, and the defence ministry — batting for a homegrown jet to be accepted — came to head in 2015. Peace was brokered by then defence minister Manohar Parrikar on four simple terms.
That the air force would place orders for five squadrons of the fighter jet provided that four parameters are met — a world-class Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar to track targets, a long-range beyond visual range missile, air-to-air refuelling capability to enhance range and modern electronic warfare capability for survivability of the aircraft.
The deal was simple — meet these four requirements and the air force would have no choice but to place orders, giving the jet a fighting chance of proving its combat capability.
While progress has been made at various levels on integrating these four enhancements, DRDO itself, which has been deeply involved in the project, has come as a possible hindrance. Scientists have placed on record strong protests over efforts by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to purchase new radars and electronic warfare systems from the global market. The logic? That these systems can be developed in India if the funds are allocated.
Given the tight timeline in which they need to be integrated and proven on board the Tejas — by 2020 — the best case scenario is to purchase the radars and systems from the global market and replace them subsequently with a homegrown solution when it matures.
However, with DRDO’s objections on record, it would take a strong stand by the defence ministry to do the right thing and honour the deal brokered in 2015. The question to be answered is whether the defence ministry is willing to bite the bullet to get the LCA truly off the ground.
The other challenge for this true ‘Make in India’ programme is the new-found foreign origin single-engine fighter jet obsession of the air force. The air force wants to buy several new fighter jets in the coming years.
The Rafale order has already been placed with a possibility of many more, a fifth generation fighter from Russia is on the cards but to further make up for numbers, the air force has moved a proposal for 118 new fighters — to be assembled in India. By specifying that it only wants jets with a single engine, only two jets in the world meet this requirement — the American F-16 and the Swedish Gripen.
By going with this ‘single engine’ formula, the air force is, in fact, contradicting itself. Years ago, when it started the now infamous Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition, it was specified that the capabilities of a fighter would be judged — speed, range, weapon delivery, survivability etc — and not the number of engines it is equipped with. This gave way to the selection of the Eurofigher and Rafale as technically compatible fighters to Indian requirements, rejecting both the F-16 and the Gripen.
The fact is that a third single-engine fighter jet choice is now available for India — an improved, spruced up LCA that will be the precursor to a full range of homegrown combat aircraft.
And this might well be the most viable option.
https://theprint.in/2018/01/05/the-...hanging-fruit-and-it-needs-to-be-plucked-now/
Sancho
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