Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[Sancho]

You have to give it to desi journos. They leave no chance to snipe at Tejas.

Actually his article was pro Tejas, since he claimed it could be a solution instead of F16 or Gripen. That's however based on the misconception that LCA is competing with them, which it isn't.

The important part of his article is the first half, where he points out that DRDO is posing a risk for LCA MK1A, because they already lobby to use their own systems in it, rather than following HALs plan, to procure radar and EW off the shelf.
This is crucial, because it's a problem that we have seen throughout the last decades, that DRDO vetos / lobbies against procurements, by claiming they can develop similar on their own! But as Kaveri, indigenous MMR, Helina or the AIP for subs showed us, they constantly fail to deliver and the forces are left with less capabilities to defend the country.

So if we once again fall for DRDOs claims LCA MK1A will have high risks of delays, which then puts tre whole Tejas programme at risk!

 

[Sancho]

I replied to Manu pubby and Shekhar Gupta the following...

We still see the same problems.

1. ADA the developer, still needs to deliver the FOC version, to provide IAF with the capabilities to replace Mig 21s (A2A weapons and minimum flight performance)
2. DRDO is still thinking only about their own benefits and not the success of the Tejas programme as a whole.
3. HAL the manufacturer, is dependent on what ADA and DRDO deliver and can't produce an uncertified fighter, nor use radars that are still under development only.
4. IAF is dependent all the above to keep development promises and production time lines.

That pretty much sums up the whole state of the Tejas programme, since it's a long wait for delivering promises from different PSUs, that not even work with each other for the common success.

 

[Kshithij]

Actually his article was pro Tejas, since he claimed it could be a solution instead of F16 or Gripen. That's however based on the misconception that LCA is competing with them, which it isn't.

The important part of his article is the first half, where he points out that DRDO is posing a risk for LCA MK1A, because they already lobby to use their own systems in it, rather than following HALs plan, to procure radar and EW off the shelf.
This is crucial, because it's a problem that we have seen throughout the last decades, that DRDO vetos / lobbies against procurements, by claiming they can develop similar on their own! But as Kaveri, indigenous MMR, Helina or the AIP for subs showed us, they constantly fail to deliver and the forces are left with less capabilities to defend the country.

So if we once again fall for DRDOs claims LCA MK1A will have high risks of delays, which then puts tre whole Tejas programme at risk!

I replied to Manu pubby and Shekhar Gupta the following...



That pretty much sums up the whole state of the Tejas programme, since it's a long wait for delivering promises from different PSUs, that not even work with each other for the common success.

Will you just stop insisting on your own things and have tunnel vision targeting DRDO? DRDO agreed to delink engine in 2007 itself which you falsely claim otherwise.When it is explicitly told that engine will be imported for Mk1A, what is the problem you have that makes you compare it with Mig21?

What you said sums up nothing except that you hate DRDO and are extremely short sighted without any proper plans or vision and refuse to reason at any cost.

 

[darshan978]

Will you just stop insisting on your own things and have tunnel vision targeting DRDO? DRDO agreed to delink engine in 2007 itself which you falsely claim otherwise.When it is explicitly told that engine will be imported for Mk1A, what is the problem you have that makes you compare it with Mig21?

What you said sums up nothing except that you hate DRDO and are extremely short sighted without any proper plans or vision and refuse to reason at any cost.

Some agenda here on which he is working lol..... he wants to prove himself expert which he isnt !!!
He is like internet fanboy drdo basher:blah::bounce:

 

[tejas warrior]

Others are realizing that building the HAL Tejas in large numbers is the only realistic option to rebuild and/or enhance squadron strength and grow the domestic aerospace industry. It is also an admission that the single-engine tender will not really take off.

 

[darshan978]

#TejasUpdate #7 | SP5 from the 2nd production facility of #HAL (erstwhile Kiran hangar) is ready to kiss the skies. It has completed HSTT & 1st flight likely this week. SP7 finishes contract flying and awaits a letter from #IAF HQ for customer flying. | @akananth | #DNKT | #Tejas

So much rigid trials for our fighter but just see rafales will be taken without testes

 

[Kshithij]

I always knew this single engine option will never be persuaded beyond RFI.

This deal was never what it looked like -- just a deal to fill numbers in IAF quickly. F-16 was always too old and Gripen E was always too American. In fact, as I suspect GOI used it as a tool to test the extent of US's willingness while cooperating with us.

I have been telling this for long that RFI is only to test the willingness for ToT. But, this was not just USA but overall any vendor. If India gets ToT, lot of time will be saved to make them indigenous

 

[Rahul Singh]

I have been telling this for long that RFI is only to test the willingness for ToT. But, this was not just USA but overall any vendor. If India gets ToT, lot of time will be saved to make them indigenous

In real-world true TOT never happens. Despite having TOT of SU-30mki HAL will be going to Russians for upgrading it.

 

[Kyubi]

In real-world true TOT never happens. Despite having TOT of SU-30mki HAL will be going to Russians for upgrading it.

Yes thats what it is , ToT is near impossible to procure for such platforms.. I'd hate to say. MOD is expecting too much on ToT. Only tech deemed as obsolete will be for taking under TOT .. but no relevant tech.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If someone use word ' They ' its not officially ours but neutral perception let it be those who are on net or foreign competitors ..

Uttam for MK1A is something DRDO never claimed officially, This whole is just another conspiracy theory ..

As its no longer a trend to target Tejas as high brass IAF officials are defending such, The usual tactics to target those Indian institutions who are involve in making it, It only seems to be another attempt of black PR by foreign companies ..

 

[Kshithij]

I have been telling this for long that RFI is only to test the willingness for ToT. But, this was not just USA but overall any vendor. If India gets ToT, lot of time will be saved to make them indigenous

No, ToT has happened to a good extent with Russia giving us cryogenic engines. USA tried to stop it but Russia still managed to give out 7 engines for Indian's to reverse engineer. Russia also has given Su30 for Indian production except for radar and critical engine components. Nevertheless, that was a great deal of ToT for India which had little infrastructure in early 2000s.

 

[sthf]

In real-world true TOT never happens. Despite having TOT of SU-30mki HAL will be going to Russians for upgrading it.

As far as I know, MLU going to Russians was in the original contract. It also makes sense since the people who signed original contracts couldn't have envisioned Indian defence industry to be a capable alternative. We are talking late 90s, early 2000s.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

A Classic example of ToT is crystal blade which HAL produced cannot be used in other engines, HAL has to work with DRDO to develop a series of crystal blade in latter stage ..

 

[Rahul Singh]

As far as I know, MLU going to Russians was in the original contract. It also makes sense since the people who signed original contracts couldn't have envisioned Indian defence industry to be a capable alternative. We are talking late 90s, early 2000s.

They should not have envisioned it pessimistically or better say corrupt.....Least to say, only an idiot could imagine getting ToT and producing 100 plus SU-30MKIs from the raw material stage and still not acquiring enough know-how to carry out Mid Life Upgrade on its own.

The SU-30MKI deal was dipped in the syrup of corruption thanks to then DM Mulayam Singh.

This Genesis is the reason why GOI is reluctant in signing FGFA --which is a natural follow-up to MKIs--with Russia because terms of ToT has not changed much. And this is the reason why this SEF deal will never materialize. As long as this government stays in power.

 

[Sancho]

Will you just stop insisting on your own things and have tunnel vision targeting DRDO?

Lol just because you don't like the reality, doesn't make it less true. But as I keep telling you on nearly all topics you keep commenting on, educate yourself before getting to false conclusions.

 

[Sancho]

If someone use word ' They ' its not officially ours but neutral perception let it be those who are on net or foreign competitors ..

Uttam for MK1A is something DRDO never claimed officially, This whole is just another conspiracy theory ..

As its no longer a trend to target Tejas as high brass IAF officials are defending such, The usual tactics to target those Indian institutions who are involve in making it, It only seems to be another attempt of black PR by foreign companies ..

Funny how Tejas topics are "dumped" in this thread again.

 

[Kshithij]

Lol just because you don't like the reality, doesn't make it less true. But as I keep telling you on nearly all topics you keep commenting on, educate yourself before getting to false conclusions.

You said that DRDO lobbied for its systems in Tejas and delayed it. I gave evidence that engine was delinked in 2007 itself. Hence, it is your words that were disproven and not mine. Who should get educated?

 

[Sancho]

You said that DRDO lobbied for its systems in Tejas and delayed it. I gave evidence that engine was delinked in 2007 itself. Hence, it is your words that were disproven and not mine. Who should get educated?

Lol, you just confused yourself that's all. The de-linking of Kaveri from LCA MK1, has nothing to do with lobbying to get the Kaveri/Snecma engine, just as Uttam AESA or DARE EW into MK1A.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The article itself transferred here which involved import of single engine fighters ..

The post includes yours and others as well as mine too are being transferred here which are related to other aircraft topics ..

Funny how Tejas topics are "dumped" in this thread again.

 

[Sancho]

The article itself transferred here which involved import of single engine fighters ..

The post includes yours and others as well as mine too are being transferred here which are related to other aircraft topics ..

90% of the article and the dicussion is LCA related. While 0% of both adds anything to the topic if this thread, because the only relation was, that the author wrongly concluded LCA could take over the SE MMRCA requipment. Even your own statements were about LCA, which should make clear, that they have no importance in this thread.