Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[Bhoot Pishach]

This guy has quoted me first. I replied to this guy`s quote and he is saying I quoted him first.

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Mod edit

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

How did we integrated the US GE404 engine into LCA? ToT
How did we integrated Israeli radar and EW techs into LCA radar and EW? ToT
How did we get a British nose with the necessary materials to fully use the radar to it's full potential? ToT
How did we integrated a British refueling probe into LCA? ToT

Some guy are saying work done by OEMs for integrating their Products on Tejas is TOT (TRANSFER OF TECHNOLOGY).

What sort of foolishness is this???

 

[darshan978]

========== Unnecessary ===========

 

[Sancho]

I moved many post here due to their off-topic contents mostly related to MMRCA and SU-30MKI and others ..

The discussion were about LCA in the first place, just as the news article. Not to mention that MKI related content doesn't fit to the topic in this thread either.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

LCA article moved in this thread due to it was a re-post and contain other detail due to the way it was posted, Its a time consuming work to move selected post to specific thread, I might have forgot them here will move them anyway ..

 

[WolfPack86]

We are excited about making F-16 aircraft in India : CEO, Lockheed Martin
Lockheed Martin is excited about the prospect of making F-16 fighter aircraft in India and making India a global manufacturing and supply base for the aircraft, according to Phil Shaw, the Chief Executive of Lockheed Martin India Pvt. Limited.

He was speaking here on Wednesday after participating in a programme - Girls in aviation sector - jointly organised by the company and the Airports Authority of India.

He said F-16 aircraft was the proven and the most advanced fighter aircraft in the world and "it would be a tremendous boost to the make-in-India initiative of Prime Minister Narendra Modi. We are partnering with the Tata group for the purpose."

In response to a query, he said there would be constant improvements to the aircraft and India would be the beneficiary of the technological advancements.

He said the company had already supplied 12 numbers of C 130 fighter aircraft to the Indian Airforce, the aircraft being placed six apiece at two air bases in the country, and the components are manufactured in Hyderabad.

He said the company was also promoting innovators in India for the past 11 years in a programme jointly taken up with the Department of Science and Technology, and in association with Tata Trust.

"We have chosen 50 promising innovators and given them an opportunity to study in MIT in the USA. During the period, it is estimated that they may have come up with 450 business arrangements, with an estimated value of $ 1 billion. From this year, we are also taking up seed funding of promising start-ups," he added.

Referring to the role of women in aviation sector, he said there were great prospects opening up for them in civil aviation sector in India and the world and "therefore girls should grab the opportunity with both hands. We are conducting such programmes to enthuse them to take to aviation."
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=515071

 

[WolfPack86]

In previous month ago Indian Defence Ministry rejected single engine fighter tender. instead asked air force to induct tejas in good numbers. But why still this type of article is coming up.

 

[aditya10r]

In previous month ago Indian Defence Ministry rejected single engine fighter tender. instead asked air force to induct tejas in good numbers. But why still this type of article is coming up.

Presstitutes.

_________________________________________

 

[darshan978]

So desperate to sell fighters to india and dont want to give tech....
saab and swiden defence min. Also making such statements now a days
Wr are not gonna buy this crap what ever they do to milk india.....

 

[kamaal]

In previous month ago Indian Defence Ministry rejected single engine fighter tender. instead asked air force to induct tejas in good numbers. But why still this type of article is coming up.

There is a meeting taking place between 15-18 december, between LM management, MoD & IAF guys. They will be informed about the SE project and it's progress. Mostly MoD will reject the project in favour of more Rafale & MK1A, and they'll get some helicopter tender as consolation to shut their mouth and such useless media report as well.

SE looks like dead for now and MoD is more interested in 72-80 Rafale(for IAF) as MII(also 57 naval version) and more MK1A, with better MK2 in sight. Lets see, but the meeting is kept very secret, lets just wait for the outcome.

 

[Vinod DX9]

secret meeting with LM? Means Lightning coming ...unfortunately can't post

 

[kamaal]

There is a meeting taking place between 15-18 december, between LM management, MoD & IAF guys. They will be informed about the SE project and it's progress. Mostly MoD will reject the project in favour of more Rafale & MK1A, and they'll get some helicopter tender as consolation to shut their mouth and such useless media report as well.

SE looks like dead for now and MoD is more interested in 72-80 Rafale(for IAF) as MII(also 57 naval version) and more MK1A, with better MK2 in sight. Lets see, but the meeting is kept very secret, lets just wait for the outcome.

The complete cancellation of SE deal is still not confirmed but LM will receive some message regarding the progress. Most probably MoD/IAF will ask for some better deal from them about F-16, may be more freedom to integrate weapon, avionics and ToT of some core technology.
IAF will ask for tough deal so that the deal becomes nonviable for LM to get it approved by USA govt, becoz there is a huge pressure coming up from USA counter part to sign F-16 as part of SE and MoD won't jeopardize national security by buying US weapon system.

But that doesn't mean Gripen will find it easy to break in, the moment F-16 loses this deal, ToT of Gripen sub-system will be jeopardized as well.

Past few months has shown the true face of USA and it's way of arm-twisting its allies in buying its home grown weapons.

 

[Kshithij]

The complete cancellation of SE deal is still not confirmed but LM will receive some message regarding the progress. Most probably MoD/IAF will ask for some better deal from them about F-16, may be more freedom to integrate weapon, avionics and ToT of some core technology.
IAF will ask for tough deal so that the deal becomes nonviable for LM to get it approved by USA govt, becoz there is a huge pressure coming up from USA counter part to sign F-16 as part of SE and MoD won't jeopardize national security by buying US weapon system.

But that doesn't mean Gripen will find it easy to break in, the moment F-16 loses this deal, ToT of Gripen sub-system will be jeopardized as well.

Past few months has shown the true face of USA and it's way of arm-twisting its allies in buying its home grown weapons.

USA always tries that. The question here is why did the deal suddenly pop up without India even taking trials like in MMRCA deal.

 

[Sancho]

In previous month ago Indian Defence Ministry rejected single engine fighter tender.

They never rejected it, they asked IAF if LCA could take over the requirement and IAF needed to explain again, why an LCA can't be an MMRCA. That caused the hype in the media.
It's obvious now that the government has budget problems, after the GDP crashed down, the naval Chief confirmed possible budget problems too:

Replying to a question, he said there will not be any financial constraints in procuring 57 new deck based fighter jets.

At the same time, he indicated that declining capital budget for the Navy was a matter of concern. He said he had raised the issue with the defence ministry.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...mid-2018-indian-navy/articleshow/61884897.cms

The delay in issuing the RFI, although IAF is desperate to speed it up and finally get the required numbers of MMRCAs, shows that the government is the problem.

 

[Sancho]

The complete cancellation of SE deal is still not confirmed but LM will receive some message regarding the progress. Most probably MoD/IAF will ask for some better deal from them about F-16, may be more freedom to integrate weapon, avionics and ToT of some core technology.
IAF will ask for tough deal so that the deal becomes nonviable for LM to get it approved by USA govt, becoz there is a huge pressure coming up from USA counter part to sign F-16 as part of SE and MoD won't jeopardize national security by buying US weapon system.

But that doesn't mean Gripen will find it easy to break in, the moment F-16 loses this deal, ToT of Gripen sub-system will be jeopardized as well.

Past few months has shown the true face of USA and it's way of arm-twisting its allies in buying its home grown weapons.

The IAF certainly won't be happy with outdated F16s, that our opponents know better than we do, not to mention that they don't even offer advantages against China. So if we go that route, it will be another bad political deal.

 

[cyclops]

You have to remember that the previous generations were mentally unsound and disgusting people. There is no reason to say that MiG 21 was the right plane. Hence, it is not just about replacing Mig-21 but getting a decent multirole plane.

If the previous generations were decent people, they would have eliminated islam and not allowed the next generations to continuously suffer. There is no need to perpetuate this

That is a complete tangent of a point, whether Mig 21s are capable or no are debatable but the fact is we have them and to replace them we need Tejas Mk1s and Mk1As and not wait 15 more years to properly induct with complete FOC a far newer system like Tejas Mk2s.

There is a reason IAF is pushing for more aircrafts so fervently, we cannot hope to wait for newer aircrafts and lose the impression of a strong and numerous air force, lest our enemies think we can be attacked.

And what's stopping the naysayers to say then that mk2 are "not good enough" and they'd rather see AMCA?

It is already known to everyone that this socialized system of DPSUs in India is not working, but RIGHT NOW that is all we have.
We have only recently started to liberalise the sector and the results oriented defense R&D you are looking for will come eventually but that time is not now.

Everyone critical of Tejas should realise that not one fighter jet system in the world survives in the world without continuous patronage by the respective air forces and mass production.
There is no such thing as a 100% perfect user oriented product.
Every fighter has to go through the motions of induction FIRST, debugging, upgradation, while simultaneously mass producing.

That is literally the legacy of the venerable F-16s and that is how the F-35s are being produced also, i.e. inspite of the criticisms and all the while slowly incrementing newer subsystems.
Bloody hell, the pakis are doing it as well, so why is it so difficult for us to do the same.

 

[Kshithij]

That is a complete tangent of a point, whether Mig 21s are capable or no are debatable but the fact is we have them and to replace them we need Tejas Mk1s and Mk1As and not wait 15 more years to properly induct with complete FOC a far newer system like Tejas Mk2s.

There is a reason IAF is pushing for more aircrafts so fervently, we cannot hope to wait for newer aircrafts and lose the impression of a strong and numerous air force, lest our enemies think we can be attacked.

And what's stopping the naysayers to say then that mk2 are "not good enough" and they'd rather see AMCA?

It is already known to everyone that this socialized system of DPSUs in India is not working, but RIGHT NOW that is all we have.
We have only recently started to liberalise the sector and the results oriented defense R&D you are looking for will come eventually but that time is not now.

Everyone critical of Tejas should realise that not one fighter jet system in the world survives in the world without continuous patronage by the respective air forces and mass production.
There is no such thing as a 100% perfect user oriented product.
Every fighter has to go through the motions of induction FIRST, debugging, upgradation, while simultaneously mass producing.

That is literally the legacy of the venerable F-16s and that is how the F-35s are being produced also, i.e. inspite of the criticisms and all the while slowly incrementing newer subsystems.
Bloody hell, the pakis are doing it as well, so why is it so difficult for us to do the same.

I agree with the induction first theory. But, the design if Tejas MK1A was itself short sighted. They were so greedy about saving edges that they made it non upgradable. The problem with MK1A comes because of short sightedness of designers rather than due to poor quality of plane.

Mk2 is expected to be more upgradable due to larger spacing. AMCA is not comparable here. All one needs is more space to have EW, SPJ and save some hardpoint

 

[WolfPack86]

Why MOD is going behind F-16 it is better to stick with tejas. Even if govt want fighter deal with US it is better order F-18 advanced super hornet for Indian Navy.

 

[cyclops]

I agree with the induction first theory. But, the design if Tejas MK1A was itself short sighted. They were so greedy about saving edges that they made it non upgradable. The problem with MK1A comes because of short sightedness of designers rather than due to poor quality of plane.

Mk2 is expected to be more upgradable due to larger spacing. AMCA is not comparable here. All one needs is more space to have EW, SPJ and save some hardpoint

I think you are getting caught up in the new name.
Mk1A is nothing but a slightly-slightly upgraded Mk1.
It is a necessary step towards Mk2.

I think there'll be no IOC or FOC type certification for Mk1As, hence no time will be wasted.

There are no major design changes, except weight reduction, an EW sensor, some realignment of LRUs, more BVRAAMs will be tested, AESA radar and some other minor stuff.

Mk1As are meant to be a small stepping stone, and not have major changes like more ferry range or MTOW.

 

[Kay]

MK1's and MK1A are both extremely upgradable. Even after all upgradtions for MK1A, there can be further weight reductions in landing gear. Avionics and weapons package can all be upgraded. Even if there is a better engine with similar volume as GE F04, TWR will increase (which will increase as weight gets reduced as well).
All the source codes are owned by us - many new systems can be added.