Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[SanjeevM]

I favor F-16 manufacturing pact with TATA. It will bring a level of automation even in the assembly line. HAL/ADA need to adopt that automation in assembling Tejas. We learn from everything. I believe there will be lessons to learn once TATA starts manufacturing F-16.

TATA can take a call and slowly manufacture more parts for F-16. If we are considering 2 front war, we need numbers. Even if you increase Tejas production lines 4-8, you need many years to reach 400. Consider that as soon TATA gains experience in assembly, they can simultaneously have automated production lines for Tejas. TATA is private sector. They can manufacture/assemble multiple fighters. It's like TATA is making indica cars as well as nano. Move the production lines from HAL to TATA.

 

[hit&run]

Very good move. I have supported this many moons ago on this forum.

War will happen or not, we don't know but Pakistani undies will do into tight twist.

Can some good poster tell me how many F16 PAF has ?

Thanks.

 

[hit&run]

Excellent! The F-16 Block 70/72 are way ahead of the competition, except they don't have stealth. But then stealth is becoming passe what with modern radars like those on the S-500 that are so capable that many U.S. defense officials worry that even stealth warplanes like the F-22, F-35 and the B-2 will have problems overcoming them. And stealth tech almost doubles the unit cost of an aircraft.

Exports, overhauls, and repairs will bring in huge foreign exchange as there are more than 4500 of these birds in air forces around the world.

But the Pakis will be wringing their hands in despair at this news!

Good Points.

War with bigger or Equal army is won by sheer numbers. Technology has already hit the sealing, desire for better may bankrupt us.

 

[airtel]

Any technology is on offer only if we already have it or close to having it. We have a competitive plane and we should not allow the Americans to kill it off using our own taxpayers' money. If this is allowed, this is treason.

First of All , purpose of this deal is to Get "Production Line " of F-16 .............designing & developing an Aircraft is one thing ...........................but Producing those Jets at cheaper & faster Rate is another thing .

our Production Lines dont have that manufacturing capability this is why we are Buying this production Line .

P.s. This is a bad News for HAL employees ..............all the Future Indian Jets will be Manufactured in the production Lines of TATA & Reliance .

 

[mayfair]

I hope this is not an attempt to kill of LCA.

Moreover, how much tech will the Amreekis actually share with us? Will this be only screwdrivergiri?

 

[Krusty]

Explain to me why a foreign company transfer tech (which it has spent billions and years of research) to an unknown corruption infested country.

What tech transfer? No cutting/bleeding edge tech will be transferred. This Blk 70 has the latest goodies but Are you saying the Ditigalterrain system, latest EW suite, HMD, Fire control radar, modular Mission computer technology will be transferred to us?

Let's stop being naive. Even Russia didn't transfer tech for the T90 barrel. And that's 90s tech. At best it parts will come in as CKDs which will be put together in india.

Absolute waste of time to say the least. Knowing USA they might even try to collect critical Mission/intel through embedded devices if CIA feels like it.

If anyone thinks any useful cutting edge tech will be transferred, sorry but they are naive. I have said this before. Countries spent decades of research, billions of $ in R&D, hundreds of thousands of manhours by foremost Scientists and Engineers to develop the tech they have today. And people just expect it to be handed over to us? Give me one good reason...

Edit: comment meant for @Srinivas_K

 

[Krusty]

Americans are transferring almost all technologies except few.

This is a very good offer .

The idea is grab these technologies and give a boost to our indigenous industry.

The agreements are signed regarding the transfer of technologies.

Is the list of tech to be transferred out in public domain? Please share a link of what's being transferred..

 

[hit&run]

I hope this is not an attempt to kill of LCA.

Moreover, how much tech will the Amreekis actually share with us? Will this be only screwdrivergiri?

Its simple demand and supply at work.

Our Squadron strength is depleting fast, LCA being a potent jet will hardy suffice the demand.

Any nation that is ready to assemble in India is good for India. F-16 brings in big geo-political chip and makes PAF look defunct.
Having Said that The News appears to me some kind of private signing the contract with no reference of node from both the dispensation. There is many a slip between Cup and the lip.

 

[Krusty]

Its simple demand and supply at work.

Our Squadron strength is depleting fast, LCA being a potent jet will hardy suffice the demand.

Any nation that is ready to assemble in India is good for India. F-16 brings in big geo-political chip and makes PAF look defunct.
Having Said that The News appears to me some kind of private signing the contract with no reference of node from both the dispensation. There is many a slip between Cup and the lip.

Sir please ref my earlier post.

You fail to look at the bigger picture. PAF isn't going to use the F16 forever. It's already shifting its major supplier from USA to china. Once the order for the JF17 is fulfilled, Pak will go straight for the J31 which China has made clear that it's a fighter intended for export. It will be ready in 3-5 years. What happens then? India will be stuck with (another??) hundreds of aircrafts with an airframe from the 70s along with a production line for the same. Who's airforce will be at a disadvantage then? They will be flying the shining new J31 and us the old workhorse F16. When the countries start going for modern fighters which they will inevitably, we will be stuck with a production like without much of any orders. This isn't thinking ahead ... you are missing the bigger picture for the want of a small advantage which will be nullified soon anyway

We have a big problem with spares. Unless we work in fixing that IAF will always be plagued with squadron depletion no matter what hardware it buys...

 

[square]

I hope this is not an attempt to kill of LCA.

Moreover, how much tech will the Amreekis actually share with us? Will this be only screwdrivergiri?

LM is too big , too rich a company.....i doubt that tata can extrect any tech out .....
if we really looking forward to build a true aerospace ecosystem then there is no better option other then saab gripen....

anyway , its just a pack without any contrect order from iaf.....

still a long way to go.......gripen too will soon came up with same type of pect wirg adani ...and i am more condifence in adani ....

 

[Krusty]

LM is too big , too rich a company.....i doubt that tata can extrect any tech out .....
....

Huh? Unless you are mentioning only Defence and aerospace arm of TATA, yes sure. But TATA group is almost 3 times the size of LM group. Even if you go by assets or revenue (as of 2016)

TATA group is far more richer than LM will ever be..

 

[Indibomber]

To me it appears the that this move is to put pressure on Russia to share tech on FGFA & reduce the price. Anyway even if F16 is old it will be more than sufficient to handle porkistan and we can divert Sukhois & Rafels to Eastern front.

 

[Krusty]

To me it appears the that this move is to put pressure on Russia to share tech on FGFA & reduce the price. Anyway even if F16 is old it will be more than sufficient to handle porkistan and we can divert Sukhois & Rafels to Eastern front.

Is it? Or at a different angle, TATA group and Ratan Tata personally has massive influence on The Central government.... no matter what part is in power.

 

[Butter Chicken]

Look at this....most of supplier base will remain in America...TATA will assemble kits like HAL has done for decades..also about Pakistan- there are several licensed service centres around the world,like Turkey,Italy etc..Pak will get spares and even upgrades

 

[square]

Huh? Unless you are mentioning only Defence and aerospace arm of TATA, yes sure. But TATA group is almost 3 times the size of LM group. Even if you go by assets or revenue (as of 2016)

TATA group is far more richer than LM will ever be..

other then tcs and tata steel , all other tata group companies are in lose , the debt burden on them is too high and will hamper their position against LM.......also they are too ethical when it comes to adoptation....

i have more confidence in adani....

 

[square]

To me it appears the that this move is to put pressure on Russia to share tech on FGFA & reduce the price. Anyway even if F16 is old it will be more than sufficient to handle porkistan and we can divert Sukhois & Rafels to Eastern front.

russian fgfa will be soon came up for compitition against rafale and f18 for the twin engine catagory....( which the rafale has already won)

 

[Srinivas_K]

Is the list of tech to be transferred out in public domain? Please share a link of what's being transferred..

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...gies-White-House-official/article14403073.ece

 

[square]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...gies-White-House-official/article14403073.ece

here 99% means india can buy this , not that india will get to inside it.....had we heard that during mmrca trails iaf make a compliant that f16 snd f18 send for trails are delibratly downgraded versions strictly calibrated to just fill the tendar critaria .....

 

[airtel]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...gies-White-House-official/article14403073.ece

it says USA is ready to "sell" 99% of it's military equipment ...............they will not transfer any critical technology Like Engine , AESA , EW suite etc ..................we have to develop those technologies ourselves .

russian fgfa will be soon came up for compitition against rafale and f18 for the twin engine catagory....( which the rafale has already won)

neither LCA is a competitor of F-16 nor FGFA (which is still on the paper ) is competitor of rafale .

 

[Krusty]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...gies-White-House-official/article14403073.ece

No I meant, list of tech specifically from the F16 Blk 70 (deal) that will be TOT'd.... where is it said that we will get critical tech from Blk 70?

It's so easy to classify all cutting edge tech in that 1% and deny access. It's so metaphorical....