IAF Tanker Contract - New RFI out

[Sailor]

Interesting. India has finally decided to move to the West and away from Russian junk.
But India, still smarting about the armaments being sold to Pakistan by the United States, has turned to Europe in a diplomatic coup.

And here is that MRTT330 we are talking about

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Sailor India has been making big moves toward western arms, P-8I and AWACS are 2 recent examples, India is not smarting about arms sold to pakistan just arms gifted to pakistan, pakistan if you check never pays for most of their arms they usually wind up becoming gifts or donations from other countries. One Indian order can be bigger than the whole of pakistan's annual defense budget MRCA for example would fit this bill.

 

[Sailor]

I know that Lethal. I was just using this incidence to make my point.

 

[rock45]

a330

This aircraft carries something like 40 pallet plus the fuel load and since its commercial based I assume some spare parts and support could be bought on certain levels, making it a smart choice? Just seems like a better investment overall and has more future to it as well. I can see India putting an Indian home made AWACS on this platform in five years or so.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

rock45 that is a great suggestion.

 

[Sailor]

Multi-Role Tanker Transport for the RAAF January 2009

The first A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) for the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) achieved another significant milestone in its military certification process, as this new-generation refueling platform is readied for delivery to the RAAF.

The A330 MRTT was validated as a receiver aircraft for in-flight refueling after multiple contacts with an EADS' A310 testbed platform -- which is equipped with the company's advanced Aerial Refueling Boom System (ARBS).

The multiple contacts of the fly-by-wire boom were made with the A330 MRTT's Universal Aerial Refueling Receptacle Slipway Installation (UARRSI) system, located on the aircraft's forward fuselage above the cockpit. These tests and evaluations confirmed its extremely stable flying qualities as a receiver aircraft, and also included tests of the military avionics system during refueling operations.

EADS' A330 MRTT has been selected by the air forces of Australia, the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and was chosen last year by the U.S. Air Force for its recapitalization of the service's aging tanker fleet. These aircraft are based on the modern, commercial A330 jetliner -- which is in high-rate production for military and civilian customers worldwide -- and incorporate an in-flight refueling system that includes the EADS ARBS, plus underwing hose and drogue refueling pods

 

[Sailor]

chosen last year by the U.S. Air Force
Note that line. Chosen by the US as well. Interesting.

 

[nitesh]

chosen last year by the U.S. Air Force
Note that line. Chosen by the US as well. Interesting.

But isn't that move stalled by Boeing? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[A.V.]

threads to be mergerd

 

[nitesh]

Interesting. India has finally decided to move to the West and away from Russian junk.
But India, still smarting about the armaments being sold to Pakistan by the United States, has turned to Europe in a diplomatic coup.

Kindly do not use the bold part. Just because some body looses out in the competition gets converted in to junk? Russian platforms are good at the point of purchase they were best suited and now may be IAF wants to go ahead with this platform.

Please refrain from using the word.

 

[John]

well it was chosen last year by US but Boeing and many others protested because more than 40 billion in US money would be used to buy an import, besides Boeing stalled it so that they can prepare the KC-777 which beats the A-330 in range, fuel consumption, amount of fuel it can carry and transfer. The KC777 is also a much more reliable aircraft. i think we should have waited for the KC-777, besides its not like our airforce numbers are increasing right, we could have been the first customer to buy the KC777. The KC-777 is also more flexible, it can be converted to carry passengers, cargo etc.

Aerospace Notebook: Boeing now offers the 777 as a tanker

 

[John]

Boeing Pitches 777 Tanker; Labels New USAF Bid 7A7 - Defense News

PARIS - Boeing is preparing to offer either the 777 or the 767 airframes when it rebids the U.S. tanker contest, the company said June 15.

Speaking at the Paris Air Show, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems (IDS) president and CEO Jim Albaugh said he expected to see a request for proposals (RFP) this summer for the new U.S. Air Force tanker competition.

"I expect it will not have nearly as many requirements as the last one," he said.

Boeing lost out on the last hotly competed tanker contest to a joint bid by Northrop Grumman and EADS that was based on the Airbus A330 airframe. But Boeing protested that contest, and the following Government Accountability Office report lambasted the Air Force for how it ran the contest. As a result, the order was cancelled and a new competition is being run between the rival manufacturers.

Albaugh said that Boeing would decide which aircraft to bid once it had seen the RFP. Meanwhile, it has renamed its tanker program the KC-7A7. Asked what the 'A' stood for, he was vague, but said that if the media wanted to pick a word, they could use "advanced."

If indeed the 777 is being offered as a tanker, we should simply order it coz it has much longer range and can deliver more fuel.

 

[RPK]

FinMin opposes IAF choice for refuelling aircraft

FinMin opposes IAF choice for refuelling aircraft

The Indian Air Force’s plan to acquire six new refuelling aircraft to give its fighters extended reach has hit a roadblock with the Finance Ministry questioning the selection of the European Airbus 330 MRTT aircraft that costs almost twice as much as its Russian built competitor.


While two aircraft—the Airbus 330 MRTT and the Russian IL 78—had taken part in the global tender taken out in 2006 to provide six refuellers, the Air Force had recently selected the European platform after technical trials. This, despite the fact that India already has a fleet of six IL 78 tankers ordered from Uzbekistan in 2002.


However, the Finance Ministry is said to have objected to the selection as the Airbus 330 MRTT deal would cost upwards of Rs 8,000 crore against the estimated budget of Rs 5,000 crore set by the Defence Ministry. On the other hand, the fleet of Russian built IL-78 would cost only Rs 4,800 crore.


The Finance Ministry has pointed out that India already has a fleet of the IL 78 refuellers, making it easier to induct a larger number of the aircraft. Financial advisers have also pointed out that the IL-78 fleet currently in service with the Air Force is relatively new as the last aircraft was inducted as late as 2004. This, analysts say, rules out the argument that a modernised platform is needed by the Air Force.


The Air Force, on the other hand, is fed up of constant delays in spare parts as well as quality issues with Russian built aircraft. The Russian aircraft, officers say, also did not meet all requirements set in the tender. Senior officials have pointed out that not only does the Airbus aircraft have a larger range but also the ability to carry extra fuel along with a passenger or cargo load.


While the IAF is very keen on acquiring refueling aircraft at the earliest given the threat environment and the need to deploy fighters on extended missions, the Finance Ministry’s objection is likely to delay the final signing of the contract.

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Praveen's comment

IAF should with IL-78 it will be easy for maintance & low cost compare to Airbus 330 MRTT

 

[Yusuf]

Price comes only after technical evaluation. If that fails or is not upto the mark, then price factor doesnt come in at all. Unless offcourse you want to settle for substandard or below par equipment saving on the price.

 

[enlightened1]

IAF should with IL-78 it will be easy for maintance

The Air Force, on the other hand, is fed up of constant delays in spare parts as well as quality issues with Russian built aircraft.

Sorry mate but maintenance issues can take a hike as long the above mentioned exists.

& low cost compare to Airbus 330 MRTT

not only does the Airbus aircraft have a larger range but also the ability to carry extra fuel along with a passenger or cargo load.

Think of the savings they'll make by flying this all rounder instead of having to dispatch a separate cargo & a refueler. Do you know how many IL-76MDs & Il-78MKI-90s went to Red Flag last year?

Last but not the least:

The Russian aircraft, officers say, also did not meet all requirements set in the tender.

 

[StealthSniper]

I like that the Airbus won over the Il-78. The Airbus in my opinion is a much more reliable and sophisticated aircraft compared to the Il-78. Also I think it's also more fuel efficent which is another plus.

 

[Vladimir79]

Well the fact still remains... MoD gave a budget of 5,000 crore and 8,000 is far too above that to get any leeway room. IAF was looking at something they couldn't afford and should never have made the call. The upgrade of our IL-76/78 fleets include the PS-90A-76 engine which meets all European standards, increases range, service life and cargo capacity. It may not be quite up to the mark of the Airbus, but it is far more worth it to have two than one. As far as having a hard time acquiring spares is just an excuse since OAK has been setting up extra plants for part production and ToT of the most vital components. Having a service centre for a full squadron of tankers will come with the deal.

 

[sob]

Well you can expect the armchair bureaucrats of the Finmin to have reservations.

Somebody should advice them that they should ccompare apples to apples and not apples to pears. The report is very clear that the IL 78did not meet the Tender Requirements.

With the Airbus aircraft I see one major plus that as it is based on a commercial platform many of the spares can be sourced from multiple sources. And honestly the Russian companies have not been very relaible suppliers post the USSR breakup. I have seen personally inordinate delays in supplies of spare for the MIG 21 and MIG 29 engine at HAL Koraput. These delays led HAL to develop alternate European suppliers to meet the shortfall in supplies from Russia.

With even the US initially opting for this over Boeing goes a long way in proving the superiority of the Airbus Aircraft.

 

[Vladimir79]

Well you can expect the armchair bureaucrats of the Finmin to have reservations.

Somebody should advice them that they should ccompare apples to apples and not apples to pears. The report is very clear that the IL 78did not meet the Tender Requirements.

People in FinMin are number crunchers and they don't add up. The RTF requirement price was more then they could chew so it will have to be revised.

And honestly the Russian companies have not been very relaible suppliers post the USSR breakup. I have seen personally inordinate delays in supplies of spare for the MIG 21 and MIG 29 engine at HAL Koraput. These delays led HAL to develop alternate European suppliers to meet the shortfall in supplies from Russia.

MiG-21 parts production was discontinued over twenty years ago. HAL was welcome to purchase the plant as we weren't going to waste our time producing obsolete parts for something we retired ourselves. HAL is going to license build RD-33 (3) engines at Koraput so that past issue is irrelavent.

With even the US initially opting for this over Boeing goes a long way in proving the superiority of the Airbus Aircraft.

And the US Navy flies Il-78... so what?

 

[AJSINGH]

Sorry mate but maintenance issues can take a hike as long the above mentioned exists.




Think of the savings they'll make by flying this all rounder instead of having to dispatch a separate cargo & a refueler. Do you know how many IL-76MDs & Il-78MKI-90s went to Red Flag last year?

Last but not the least:

in red flag excercise anyway IAF had to send 1 IL76 and 1il 78 . even if they had airbus a2a refullers , they would send two of them because the crew which was in the excercise was large they needed extra transport aircraft