IAF to dry lease 6 AirBus 330 refuel tanker

WolfPack86

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IAF plans to contract Six Airbus A330-200 MRTT on Lease in 2021

Airbus Defence & Space Owned ” Air Tanker ” company which provides Airbus A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) aircraft for wet-, dry-, or “damp”-leasing to both civil and military operators will be having talks with the Indian Air Force (IAF) in 2021 for contracting Six Airbus A330 MRTT in long term lease from the company. Earlier this year Government of India proposed leasing of military equipment in its revised draft of Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) 2020, which may enable the military to possess and operate costly platforms required for a limited period. According to Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) 2020, Leasing would be permitted in two subcategories i.e. Lease (Indian), where Lessor is an Indian entity and is the owner of the asset, and Lease (Global) that refers to lease of equipment from foreign or Indian Lessors. According to information provided to idrw.org, ” Air Tanker ” will maintain a core fleet of six tankers to be available full time for AAR Duties for IAF but also can maintain a surge fleet of 2-3 additional aircraft that can be provided in case of additional requirements by the operator. IAF is likely to opt for a ‘dry’ or ‘damp’ lease that allows aircraft to be flown on their individual military aircraft registers by their crews, while AirTanker could continue to provide an engineering service to ensure aircraft continue to be maintained in line with Civil Aviation Authority. IAF also will enter into a training partnership agreement with AirTanker that offers 250 courses covering A330-200 type rating like Pilot and Mission Systems Operator Air-to-Air Refuelling training, amongst others. Under Dry lease agreements, aircraft are usually acquired for a period of 2 – 7 years but at the maturity of the lease, the lessee has the option of purchasing the equipment.
 

ataru09

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Just seems like a purchase with extra steps and extra costs...
 

mist_consecutive

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Just seems like a purchase with extra steps and extra costs...
Leasing is generally not a good long-term solution, but for the case of India, it is an excellent option currently, better than buying.

Why? We are immediately getting 6 platforms (within 6 months I presume) which is excellent, and given the two-front war may not be a distant illusion anymore, rotating platforms from North-West-East and maybe even South to protect the Indian Ocean, aerial refuellers will be invaluable.

After the lease period is over, we have the option to buy these platforms, and if they are not very old, will be a good deal given the strategic value it has already provided.

And if we don't like it, we can alwayss just return them and can order KC-135/IL-78s, or some other options.
 

ataru09

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Leasing is generally not a good long-term solution, but for the case of India, it is an excellent option currently, better than buying.

Why? We are immediately getting 6 platforms (within 6 months I presume) which is excellent, and given the two-front war may not be a distant illusion anymore, rotating platforms from North-West-East and maybe even South to protect the Indian Ocean, aerial refuellers will be invaluable.

After the lease period is over, we have the option to buy these platforms, and if they are not very old, will be a good deal given the strategic value it has already provided.

And if we don't like it, we can alwayss just return them and can order KC-135/IL-78s, or some other options.
If it's immediate delivery I can see the value of this.
 

Rajaraja Chola

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MoD surprises by its ability to incur long term cost in lieu of short term so called benefits. Who did the cost analysis ratio. Leases can result in corruption too. If this order had been placed by 2015 frames, we would have six rankers cum Awacs plane by now. If I was Airbus, I would not recommend doing business with MoD. Waste of money and time. I can't remember the number of times they had won the tender.
 

Kumata

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Logically .. Makes sense... you don't own the assets.. since this is dry lease, All headache with Airbus .. we just operate use them and return... cost wise, this should be less than what we would if we own them...
 

Kumata

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MoD surprises by its ability to incur long term cost in lieu of short term so called benefits. Who did the cost analysis ratio. Leases can result in corruption too. If this order had been placed by 2015 frames, we would have six rankers cum Awacs plane by now. If I was Airbus, I would not recommend doing business with MoD. Waste of money and time. I can't remember the number of times they had won the tender.
Airbus have traditionally got not much business in here specifically with GOI & MOD but in civil aviation.. they have done well.. Indigo / vistara.... Any links for their old deeds...that we think MOD should not do bussiness with them...
 

Illusive

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MoD surprises by its ability to incur long term cost in lieu of short term so called benefits. Who did the cost analysis ratio. Leases can result in corruption too. If this order had been placed by 2015 frames, we would have six rankers cum Awacs plane by now. If I was Airbus, I would not recommend doing business with MoD. Waste of money and time. I can't remember the number of times they had won the tender.
Why surprised when it has a history of getting ripped off. The banya mentality sadly doesn't transpire in defence purchases. We have long tender process, a longer evaluation process, then bidding if any, cost overun due to time taken for evaluation, evaluation of the decision if we should go for this product as a newer version is coming, cancel the tender, repeat again...
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Airbus have traditionally got not much business in here specifically with GOI & MOD but in civil aviation.. they have done well.. Indigo / vistara.... Any links for their old deeds...that we think MOD should not do bussiness with them...
If that is that when we shouldn't let Airbus participate in tenders in the first place. It's a waste of our time first. Stop defending Mod here. IAF doesn't want lease. We are not spending enough on defence and are sprouting nonsense on pensions to cover our inability to allocate money for it.
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Logically .. Makes sense... you don't own the assets.. since this is dry lease, All headache with Airbus .. we just operate use them and return... cost wise, this should be less than what we would if we own them...
How? So if we have to do some maintenance we let Airbus folks snoop around the Ac looking for our radars and stuffs? So we will pay for their modification costs but won't buy it. So if Airbus wants to sell again the aircrafts they have to modify again. Who do you think will pay for it? And let's say we lease it for 10 years and then buy guess who the loser is? Indian taxpayers
 

Kumata

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If that is that when we shouldn't let Airbus participate in tenders in the first place. It's a waste of our time first. Stop defending Mod here. IAF doesn't want lease. We are not spending enough on defence and are sprouting nonsense on pensions to cover our inability to allocate money for it.
I am not defending MOD here.

Vis as Vis our absymal tax collections, our spending on defence is good is all i can say. Also, IAF do not want dry lease is a news to me. any source for your claim...
 

Kumata

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How? So if we have to do some maintenance we let Airbus folks snoop around the Ac looking for our radars and stuffs? So we will pay for their modification costs but won't buy it. So if Airbus wants to sell again the aircrafts they have to modify again. Who do you think will pay for it? And let's say we lease it for 10 years and then buy guess who the loser is? Indian taxpayers
Looks like you need to understand Dry lease better.

In Dry lease, we control all the operational aspect of the air craft. As for modifications goes, we are leasing A 330 MRTT which is a oil tanker from OEM itself ... so no modification are necessary per se. remember these A 330 MRTT accompanied the Rafael's on ferry flight.... so inter-operational ability is already there... Moreover A 330 will be far more efficient to operate than 20 years Old IL 76.. ... u dont make decisions on days expenses by life cycle expenses..

Moreover, I am sure there would be a acquisition clause as well... Dry lease is a well known phenomenon in Airlines industry.. IN fact whole is IA fleet boeing fleet is dry leased ... same for Indigo too...
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Looks like you need to understand Dry lease better.

In Dry lease, we control all the operational aspect of the air craft. As for modifications goes, we are leasing A 330 MRTT which is a oil tanker from OEM itself ... so no modification are necessary per se. remember these A 330 MRTT accompanied the Rafael's on ferry flight.... so inter-operational ability is already there... Moreover A 330 will be far more efficient to operate than 20 years Old IL 76.. ... u dont make decisions on days expenses by life cycle expenses..

Moreover, I am sure there would be a acquisition clause as well... Dry lease is a well known phenomenon in Airlines industry.. IN fact whole is IA fleet boeing fleet is dry leased ... same for Indigo too...
Thanks for the lesson on dry lease. People objecting it didn't have an understanding of what it was.

It's still shitty. Iaf wanted Awacs cum mrtt and right now we can't have both. Modifications are required as per equipment used by IAF. Including communication equipment, sensors etc. We can't just let strangers take a look into it.

This s a bad decision which even won't save money in the long run.
 

Kumata

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Thanks for the lesson on dry lease. People objecting it didn't have an understanding of what it was.

It's still shitty. Iaf wanted Awacs cum mrtt and right now we can't have both. Modifications are required as per equipment used by IAF. Including communication equipment, sensors etc. We can't just let strangers take a look into it.

This s a bad decision which even won't save money in the long run.
I guess we always have the option of converting lease to buy .... as for sensors etc goes, MOD / IAF must have thought about it and than decided....we can only guess...

I would prefer a single role for single aircraft... having 2 eggs in a single basket means we loose both incase of a disaster...
 

mist_consecutive

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Thanks for the lesson on dry lease. People objecting it didn't have an understanding of what it was.

It's still shitty. Iaf wanted Awacs cum mrtt and right now we can't have both. Modifications are required as per equipment used by IAF. Including communication equipment, sensors etc. We can't just let strangers take a look into it.

This s a bad decision which even won't save money in the long run.
I guess we always have the option of converting lease to buy .... as for sensors etc goes, MOD / IAF must have thought about it and than decided....we can only guess...

I would prefer a single role for single aircraft... having 2 eggs in a single basket means we loose both incase of a disaster...
Read my this post -

Leasing is generally not a good long-term solution, but for the case of India, it is an excellent option currently, better than buying.

Why? We are immediately getting 6 platforms (within 6 months I presume) which is excellent, and given the two-front war may not be a distant illusion anymore, rotating platforms from North-West-East and maybe even South to protect the Indian Ocean, aerial refuellers will be invaluable.

After the lease period is over, we have the option to buy these platforms, and if they are not very old, will be a good deal given the strategic value it has already provided.

And if we don't like it, we can always just return them and can order KC-135/IL-78s, or some other options.
Also, AWACS + Refueller is a bad idea. You cannot just shove a big watermelon on top and make it carry fuel tanks as well. The drag of the top radar already affects flight performance, and extra heavy load carrying will just decrease the lifetime of the airframe and provide inferior kinematic performance.

Giving the current status of India, (our defense deals sabotaged by Congress for 12 years), our best option is leasing them.
 

Kumata

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Read my this post -



Also, AWACS + Refueller is a bad idea. You cannot just shove a big watermelon on top and make it carry fuel tanks as well. The drag of the top radar already affects flight performance, and extra heavy load carrying will just decrease the lifetime of the airframe and provide inferior kinematic performance.

Giving the current status of India, (our defense deals sabotaged by Congress for 12 years), our best option is leasing them.
Exactly my thought as well.... operations cost wise, A 330 will be far more modern & efficient platforms as well compared to IL 76..Untill when we can continue hauling russian stuff...
 

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